Hunters Kill Griz Near Dubois Wyo and Also Pass the Fed. Self Defense Test

[bilmac]

A father and two grown sons were hunting elk last fall above Dubois Wy. The dad had killed his elk and wasn't carrying a rifle. They were following a game trail through scattered trees with the boys off to the side and dad on the trail a few feet away. They came upon the bear that later investigation showed was burying an elk carcass. The bear charged the dad who emptied a can of bear spray without stopping it. The boys fired 3 shots from a 300 Win mag and two from a 270 hitting the bear 4 times and killing it. It died 8 feet from the father and 11 feet from the sons.

Officials were hostile when they learned of the shooting, but changed their attitude when they visited the scene. I wonder how many of them had been carrying bear spray for protection and now carry guns?

Many hunters have stopped hunting in the Yellowstone ecosystem, a large chunk of northwest Wyoming, because introduced bears and wolves have decimated game populations. Also, Federal rules have taken the fun out of the sport. The rules mostly involve camping which are a large part of the hunting experience.

[spruce]

I've always thought bear spray was overrated - it's use pushed by the PC crowd, more than any scientific proof of it's effectiveness.
 
While I've never used bear spray on a bear, I've used OC spray a few times on people, observed it's use by others, and had it used on me (in training).  It's effectiveness varies a great deal from person to person and I don't see why it wouldn't also vary a great deal from bear to bear.
 
On some people OC spray is VERY effective.  On others it sometimes has almost no effect at all.  On a great deal of people it's effectiveness is somewhere in between the two extremes.  There are so many variables it's hard to predict how well it will work.
 
Lucky for them they had rifles to back up the spray!

[Dee]

I used to tell officers that if they used pepper spray during an arrest, that they were on their own. I've seen guys that were mildly belligerent, go wild when sprayed. I hated the stuff.

[hillbill]

bear spray works on some bears. depends on ther level of pistoffitdness.
 

[mechanic]

My grand daughter let loose a keyring container of tear gas in the car.  It worked well on me, but I wouldn't want to try it on a bad guy or a bear.  It mainly made my eyes water profusely, but I was able to pull the car over and park it.  I could have continued an attack if I needed to....grand daughter got a good dose too....she won't do that again.
 
Ben

[Couger]

..... Officials were hostile when they learned of the shooting, but changed their attitude when they visited the scene. I wonder how many of them had been carrying bear spray for protection and now carry guns?

 
GOOD for the father, and especially his sons!
 
Quite a story!  Which doesn't occur as rarely as many non-westerners might think.  (I've read of several instances where Idaho or Montana elk hunters were similarly attacked).
 
I'm sorry the grizz was killed, but glad no humans were lost!  And glad the sons' aims were true. 
 
Most times when I read about "officials" who investigate an incident where Joe Citizen excersizes some common-sense to protect himself when his well-being is at stake (usually physical or financial in nature) the citizen gets hosed!  Even out of pure vindictiveness based on the officials' beliefs or politics ..... (like they resent the citizen for even being 'alive!' and breathing the same air!)
 
If I lived closer to Wyoming, I would be extremely interested to know where the [investigating officials] came from!?
 
My dad was from Wyoming, along with several excellent uncles and cousins.  NONE of them suffer/ed fools easily.

[SHOOTALL]

I had a class where we got sprayed with the pepper spray. In every case I saw there was a time between getting sprayed and when it had worked enough to make someone stop the attack if ever. My thought is a lot of damage can be done in that between time.

[FPH]

I was told by an outfitter to get the spray made specifically for bear..  That being said, I'm also looking into a .460 for my hip..

[SHOOTALL]

My nephew went on a float trip in AK. the guide carried a 12 ga. and the students carried bear spray. seems if the bear was undecided the spray worked well. If he was committed it was very iffy.

[Dee]

Like pepper spray, I would imagine bear spray, is just as effective in a good swirling wind, around buildings, or trees and rocks. My point is, if everyone gets a good dose, no one will have to witness the carnage.
On the other hand. If one is in the wilderness, and a bear attacks, and said bear ends up deceased? What compels the "agresse" to notify anyone, knowing the governments propensity to take the bears side, and testify on behalf of a bear, they neither knew, or saw in the circumstances described act? The three monkeys come to mind here.

[Dee]

My nephew went on a float trip in AK. the guide carried a 12 ga. and the students carried bear spray. seems if the bear was undecided the spray worked well. If he was committed it was very iffy.

Seems to me, that if the GUIDE thought he needed a 12 gauge, I might need one too. Just sayin.

[SHOOTALL]

SSS, shoot , shovel and shut up !
Of course some bears have radio tracking on.

[SHOOTALL]

My nephew went on a float trip in AK. the guide carried a 12 ga. and the students carried bear spray. seems if the bear was undecided the spray worked well. If he was committed it was very iffy.

Seems to me, that if the GUIDE thought he needed a 12 gauge, I might need one too. Just sayin.

I agree 100% .
I would think in a group it might be more effective to spray a slow runner .  and hope the bear likes pepper on his food  .............

[Dee]

SSS, shoot , shovel and shut up !
Of course some bears have radio tracking on.

Well then, the tree and bear huggers ( no pun intended), won't have any problems finding his corpse. But the hunters do not. I have never bet my life on anything in an aerosol can.
 
As far as nuisance neighbors cats and pit bulls, the SSS works well. A bear? A brisk walk in the leaves and pine needles would be more practical.

[SHOOTALL]

I don't know I have stayed in places where a can of Lysol spray may have saved my life !

[Dee]

Well, you could have a point there, but we can't prove it. I too, have had that experience, so perhaps my statement on aerosol, COULD be a little to broad.

[SHOOTALL]

 

[FPH]

We mostly only deal with Black Bear.  The last poor bastard I came across had two radio collars and four ear tags.  Heck they probably named him Rover.  The spray the guide recommended to me was kind of neat as it was like silly string and was directional.  I still prefer the 3 S's and I debating between the S & W .460 and the .460 Roland conversion.(very directional).

[Oldshooter]

Went on a trip in the mountains a while back. The ranger that was showing us the place said that when walking in the woods where bears might be its best to wear bells on your shoes and have a whistle around your neck, and make a lot of noise. As we went along we found some bear scat. Someone asked him what kind of animal left that, he said "black bear". They said  how can you tell it was a black bear. He said because it had nuts and berries in the scat. They asked what does a grizzley bear scat have in it, he said "bells and whistles"
 
Those two sons love their pop! and he appreciates them!

[Couger]

SSS ...... shoot , shovel and shut up !
Of course some bears have radio tracking on[/b].[/i]

Don't laugh folks.
 
More than once I've heard of poachers getting nabbed when WA state, when fish cops drove right to the homes of the game robbers!  Latest incident I believe involved an illegal bull elk.
 
And in Idaho and Montana its not just 'rumor' that dead wolves have been found by their tracking devices.

[Dee]

What "idiot" would take the tracking device home with them? This is about defending ones self against a bear attack. Not poaching.

[SHOOTALL]

Well Dee there was a guy in Hanover County Va. who shot a hawk. He liked to do so and started back before it was illegal to do so. Here at one time a bounty was paid for hawk bills. Anyway he shoots it , takes it home cuts the feet off , his trophy sort of speak . Throws the rest on the trash can and goes in to eat dinner. (dinner is supper in parts of the South remember). Well about the time he is finishing up the door bell rings and it's two Game Wardens . Long story short they showed him the transmitter , very small with a copper colored wire sticking out from under the feathers . They searched his home and found several hundred more pairs of feet. In court they had ID every pair with all the facts but the cal. of the rifle he used to shoot them. He got a fine and no hunting for 5 years. I met the guy in a gun shop and he told the story. I have been told the same transmitter is used on bears , imbedded in the skin under the fur. It would be hard to spot . The other thing is if someone is monitoring the bear when killed the transmitter lets the person know the bears heart stopped. Now I was told not all  transmitters are watched all the time as often you have to be with in a certain range to pick them up. The guy with the Hawk just happened to pick the wrong time. It is going on in Va. to the point that some poachers or farmers no longer shoot bears out of season. Guess It's like states that allow concealed carry everyone benefits if only a few carry cause you don't know which one . Others here shoot things they should not but never approach it , with game animals it is a waste of good food. Shame.

[Dee]

Well SHOOTALL, your guy was doin something that at the time was illegal. His trophies of his "illegal activity" got him. I just don't see it as the same as shootin a dangerous bear, and walkin away.

[FPH]

I have a friend who was having trouble with owls.  One night he killed a white owl.  He froze it and took it to be mounted because of it's color.  He was turned in.

[bilmac]

Snowy Owl    Not many birds are legal to kill. They're all migratory.

[FPH]

Snowy Owl    Not many birds are legal to kill. They're all migratory.

He had obtained permission to protect his kids (goats) from owls from the G&F but I guess The Snowy Owl (thanks, that's it) was an exception.

[Dee]

It's kinda hard to say that your protecting your goats, while tryin to keep one as a trophy. Kinda clouds your real intentions, and makes them look questionable. jmo

[FPH]

It's kinda hard to say that your protecting your goats, while tryin to keep one as a trophy. Kinda clouds your real intentions, and makes them look questionable. jmo

We were kids ourselves at the time.  He shot this one on the ground as it was killing it's third kid of the night.  Once he had killed it he became aware of  it's color and uniqueness.  We hadn't seen one before.

[reliquary]

There's a story going around about an elderly lady who used a .25 auto to stop a bear from attacking her...as she left the area, she shot her husband in the kneecap with it.

[FPH]

As the story goes.....I don't have to out run the bear, I only have to out run you.