Bug out into trhe wilderness, is it always smart ?

[ironglow]

The "crisis"and dangerous mode of survival will be mostly manifested in the first couple months, as roving gangs try to rob, kill and loot their way through. 
  The idea of a guardable community is going on the idea of the old story concerning a hungry bear chasing 2 guys.  One fellow realizes he doesn't have to out run the bear..if he can just outrun the other fellow.  In the same way, a guarded community forces such roving bands..to look for "easier pickings".
  After the first couple months, although still guarded, the process of long term survival takes priority.

[mannyrock]

   This issue may turn on how long you intend to be in the bug out situation.


   If you are just trying to hide for the first six weeks, I believe that you could do very well by finding a small patch of wooded thicket (very very dense with briars), digging a little pit in it covered with logs and tarp, and staying down inside and out of sight till the first phase blows over.  Whitetail deer are hugely successful at hiding from humans in this way. It is not unusual for a massive buck to hunker down in a tiny dense thicket, no more than 100 yards from hunting camp, and never be seen during hunting season.  Sometimes they'll do it just 50 yards off of a major road.


  Dig down, get down and stay put.


   Ticks?  Yea, a twice daily tick preening would be a necessity of life.  I have heard that it takes a day or so for Lyme disease to be transferred. Not so with Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever.   Once you contract it, you will be dead in 5 to 7 days.  Luckily, I think a simple anti-biotic (not sure, but I think its Tetracyline) will cure it if taken very early.


  Eating insects?  Just yesterday, on Science Friday, on NPR, they had a special on the cooking and eating of insects, particularly the Circadia that are now coming up out of the ground after 17 years.  The lady guest was an expert at cooking insects. She noted that 80% of the human population routinely eats insects, except in North America and Europe.  She battered and cooked up a Circadia, and the NPR reporter bit into one.  After taking his bit, he could see the insects head peaking out of the remaining batter with its big red eyes.  He gagged loudly and said he was going to throw up.  She laughed at  him.




 Mannyrock




 
 

[Couger]

 
Insects and grubs?  NO thanks!
 
 
 
But I'd be happy to eat tubers (like arrow root or cattail), miner's lettuce, water cress, dandelion, snakes, frogs, opossums, raccoons, crows, coots, muskrat, and even the neighbors cat, pet peacocks, goats or pony. 
 
Plenty of possibilities before "bugs" became a mainstay.

[mechanic]

Insects and grubs?  NO thanks!
 
 
 
But I'd be happy to eat tubers (like arrow root or cattail), miner's lettuce, water cress, dandelion, snakes, frogs, opossums, raccoons, crows, coots, muskrat, and even the neighbors cat, pet peacocks, goats or pony. 
 
Plenty of possibilities before "bugs" became a mainstay.

+1
 

[Oldshooter]

Insects and grubs?  NO thanks!
 
 
 
But I'd be happy to eat tubers (like arrow root or cattail), miner's lettuce, water cress, dandelion, snakes, frogs, opossums, raccoons, crows, coots, muskrat, and even the neighbors cat, pet peacocks, goats or pony. 
 
Plenty of possibilities before "bugs" became a mainstay.

+1

I definitely have some priorities and an informal list. and bugs and grubs are way down there somewhere.......way down but never say never! 

[SHOOTALL]

When survival is the game it would seem flexibility would be the smartest plan. Sure say you plan to bun in or out but be ready to do either just in case. In some cases the action will be dictated by events while at other times we may have a real choice. It may very well be the only choice to go into the wild. On the other hand how bad will it have to be to make that the only choice ?

[scattershot]

I think your options are colored by where you live. Here in Colorado, for example, our "wilderness" is under six feet of snow for most of the year. I think I'd just stay home, where I have a better chance of having what I need at any given time.

[SHOOTALL]

If you can't move maybe those who would be a problem can't either .

[cjclemens]

I've spent a lot of time contemplating this very topic.  Bugging out, to me, seems like a catch-22 as a means of survival - that is, unless you have it thoroughly planned out from start to finish.  This means having an exact destination and the right amount of food, water, and other supplies to get there.  I don't doubt the level of skill as an outdoors-man anyone here possesses.  However, living in the wilderness for a long enough period of time would eventually take its toll on anyone.  As was mentioned before, diseases from ticks and mosquitoes, weather, lack of food and clean water makes long-term survival untenable.


I guess the main point, for me, is that everyone's situation is totally different.  I live in a small town, but the family farm is only about 15 miles away.  Its a quick an easy drive, but if you end up hiking it, it could take a day or more(if you take the low road and stay out of sight).  So, for me, an ideal bug out bag is enough tools and supplies to make it to the family farm on foot.  The farm is more easily defended and better supplied than my house in town, so that's my obvious first choice for a bug out location.  Now, if things got bad enough that I had to leave the family farm, I figure all is just about lost anyway.  Without a bug out destination, you're just aimlessly wandering through the woods, and that really limits your chances for survival.  That's why I think bugging out without a plan is an absolutely last option kind of thing.  Furthermore, in a serious disaster situation, where communications are just about totally cut off, how do you get intel on where is safe and where danger is?  That is, unless you just just pick a direction and see what happens.


Now it is totally possible that I have the wrong impression of what people consider bugging out.  When I hear some people talk about it, I get the feeling that they think they'll be able to grab a pack and a rifle and go live off the land until the trouble blows over.  To me, that's just a good way to run into one of those roving bands of marauders.  Again, I may have the wrong impression of what people consider bugging out, but based on that I think bugging in is a far better option.  This is a really interesting topic, so I do like to hear what others think.

[SHOOTALL]

All good points . I live near a city of over 100000 with another 300000 maybe surrounding it. We would be also in the direct line of people evacuating the coast. If I bug out it would be in a crowd. So it would seem better to stay home but defending it could be a chore. I have family and friends about 20 miles farther out that I can go to but getting there would include a river crossing and a couple large creeks. I would expect the bridges across them would be choke points to be avoided.
 One other thing I experienced. We had a hurricane come thru. , keep in mind we are 100 miles off the coast but this one hit us hard. The day after it hit my son and I went out looking around and to find gas . Due to rising water and down trees we got cut off from getting home. Another time I was working away from home and the James River flooded and crested higher than expected causing the bridges to close making a 30 min trip home a 2 hour trip .

[ironglow]

  A few things to thnk about;

 1) Hunting..would work for a week or two, but we need plant life also..one should have a good grasp of plants and roots.

 2) With the weather we have had for the last month and continuing next week..I had -25 degrees F,  a neighboring hamlet had national low of -34 degrees F.  We cannot kid ourselves, to be out there with only makeshift shelter most of us would/could not last more than a couple nights.

 3) If the weather is like that when SHTF, are you ready to abandon grandma and the little ones.. or will you take them out into sub-zero woods and hope they can survive somehow?

 4) Small community..say 10 to 20 families pooling resources, seems to me like the only viable option.

[cjclemens]

I think hunting and fishing would be a viable means of acquiring protein.  However, much of it would go to waste if you didn't have the means to preserve some of it, and that requires canning equipment, or a whole lot of salt.  It also depends on local population, wildlife habitat, etc.  Long term survival would almost require raising livestock of your own, like chickens, goats, or maybe a small, hardy breed of cattle.

Here in central Illinois, we've had a pretty cold winter, so far.  The last couple were pretty mild and that makes people forget how harsh winters can be.  We don't have fur, so we have to find another way to stay warm and dry.  On the road, you might be able to take a tent with you, but they're heavy and will limit your ability to carry other necessities.  Not to mention, if it is damaged or wears out, you probably won't have any way to repair it.

The small community approach (even if its only 5-10 families) is definitely the best model for long term survival.  That gives people the ability to pool resources and knowledge.  People can share the responsibility of food production, clean water acquisition, and security.  I think security is a big one.  You cant stay alert 24/7 to protect the supplies that you've stockpiled, so IMHO, its best to have others you can trust to help stand watch.

[SHOOTALL]

The hunting and fishing will take longer trips to get to remaining game and fish. This may cause contact with rival groups leading to fighting . Some critters like chickens and hogs would be a good source and renewable . Most people live in high concentrated areas and staying at home in a group won't insure safety if the hordes decide to attack. Even the govt. may take your supplies to distribute to others . A low profile will be necessary in such areas and when others are starving  it would be bad form to be healthy and plump. If you get what I mean.

[cjclemens]

I guess when I was thinking of hunting and fishing, I was thinking of the family farm. We have a good section of timber and a small river running through it. Even still, i think you're right - trips out to hunt, fish, and forage are still be at risk of exposure to wandering bands of looters.

What concerns me even more is how attractive the sight of a functional and productive farm might be. I can only imagine what a wandering bandit might think, when he sees a farmstead with livestock, gardens, and clean water.

[blind ear]

The older and more feeble that I get the better some type of community sounds. Loneliness is a big factor in many survival situations that I have read about. ear

[SHOOTALL]

 If you have a place worth living in then it will be worth protecting . To be able to protect it will take man power . Also a buffer zone between what you are protecting and where you "meet" new comers. It would need to have limited access and if possible long fields of observation on entry routs.

[blind ear]

Any books other than "Patriots" and "One Second After" to learn something about setting up perimeters of defense for a community situation?
Thanks, ear

[Bugflipper]

For fishing a net generally doesn't require much input. Just set it out and come back later. Same applies to trapping animals. Folks that get in the mindset of harvesting food instead of hunting and fishing for it may be a leg up instead of wandering about hoping to find something. Personally, I'd find more value in a barrel of salt over a barrel of food any day, but that's just me. There's some merit in learning how to dry green stuff and keeping the vitamins and minerals as well to reconstitute later when you can't get any. But ultimately Americans' aversion to bugs would be the downfall of a lot of folks anyway. You see how the animals you hunt get when pressured by a very small percentage of the population. If millions of folks are traipsing around, imagine how they'd act then, whether they get wiped out or not.

[sethk]

I'm luck to have a "bug out" location that happens to be an underground house at the end of a dead end road, 20 miles away from a major metropoltan area. Well water and a septic tank to boot. I'm sure the herd of Herefords and most of the deer will fall pretty quick, but I'll take the rabbits and rats and crows that are likely to linger. And if it really ends up with the s hitting the f, I'll be glad to have all my friends in the city looking for clean water and safety and bringing their kale and protein bars out to the old homestead.


As much as survival skills and reserves will be important, a real bug out senario will, IMHO, show how important the bonds you formed with others (and ones ability to spot a fake) will matter in the long term.