Bug out into trhe wilderness, is it always smart ?

[SHOOTALL]

Ok things go bad your choice is bug out to the wilderness, bug out to a planned location or bug in. Many feel bugging out to the wilderness is the best option . Lets look at some reasons why it might not be. If you hunt as many of us do , how many days do you see game you could take ? Would you eat say a rat or such ? Have you given consideration to long term effects of frost bite ?, heat stroke ? , tick bites ?, lack of vitamin's ? ,Culture shock ? there are many other things from E.Coli to Dysentery that will challenge you.
 Just staying in one location will deplete you food supply if it depends on wild game. Then there will be others who will compete for the food some critters will give you a run for your money.
 Of course there will be situations that force some into the wildness but if at all possible it seems better to bug in maybe with others .
 any thoughts ? And yes bugging in or to a planned site will have problems also .

[spooked]

Ok things go bad your choice is bug out to the wilderness, bug out to a planned location or bug in. Many feel bugging out to the wilderness is the best option . Lets look at some reasons why it might not be. If you hunt as many of us do , how many days do you see game you could take ? Would you eat say a rat or such ? Have you given consideration to long term effects of frost bite ?, heat stroke ? , tick bites ?, lack of vitamin's ? ,Culture shock ? there are many other things from E.Coli to Dysentery that will challenge you.
 Just staying in one location will deplete you food supply if it depends on wild game. Then there will be others who will compete for the food some critters will give you a run for your money.
 Of course there will be situations that force some into the wildness but if at all possible it seems better to bug in maybe with others .
 any thoughts ? And yes bugging in or to a planned site will have problems also .

Bin bit by ticks fer sixty years or more..thing is to get'm off as quick as possible..Vitamins are there for the taking..jist gotta know where to look...see game most days, but not always, til the game got to thin traps would be better than trying to hunt everyday...there is cures for stomach ailments in the wild...
However with my ailments..I'm gonna sleep in my own bed til the end..

[SHOOTALL]

Here a lot of folks spend their lives getting ticks off and many get sick from them. Some places ticks get you need a mirror to see um  . Depending on why you took to the out doors eating roots etc might be a bad idea.

[Empty Quiver]

Those of you bugging out into the wilderness had better start practicing vegetarian habits.  You and the entire bugging out crowd should have every mammal killed in roughly 60 days. Migrating birds should last longer.


Think about this for a moment. Hunters are all up in arms about what the reintroduction of wolves has done to the elk population. What would the plague of thousands of preppers do to those populations of game?


I'll be staying home in an organized neighborhood. I'm a reasonable distance from the interstate in a relatively underpopulated state. Fortunately we are not on a public transportation route    so the lazy arses won't be here any time soon.[size=78%] [/size]

[Ranger99]

i think that's where that possum
dinner that we've discussed here
before comes in 

[Couger]

 
There's a big difference between bugging out to the 'rural' agricultural farmland areas, and the "wilderness" usually in the western Nat'l Parks or western plains and mountain states.
 
But regardless whether folks are city-types, heading 'out of town' needs to be planned - if even just a little bit!
 
As for hunting, I heartily agree snaring and trapping will be far more productive that "hunting" the way most folks are used to.

[SHOOTALL]

To survive in the wilderness with out support or little support a man would have to become a predator. Only use energy to get energy.
 As for hunting it is really to hit and miss. Trapping is good but if traps are found by others it could be a problem.
 Something I try to always have is fishing line , hooks , sinkers , floats and freeze dried bait. And if it is not a SHTF time then some fishing for fun is a great way to pass some time.

[Ranger99]

i don't think a lone wolf type fellow
would make it long without becoming
a criminal and murderer. you'd need
to be a part of a like-minded moral
community. if you're out roaming around
what used to be so-and-so national forest
pre-anarchy at sunup and are heading to
the first of your traps or to your fishtrap,
how would you know that the toecutter
and bubba and johnny the boy didn't
find your trap line yesterday and are
up in a tree or something waiting for you
to come along so they can shoot you in
the back of the head and steal your goods
and clothes?
you wouldn't. you'd have to live like a murdering
criminal just like them and kill whoever you
saw on sight before they killed you.

[Bugflipper]

There are more birds than furry critters. More fish than birds. More insects than fish. More plants than insects. If a fellow sets out with a single minded goal of hunting he probably isn't going to fair very well whether he travels or stays put.

[Couger]

There are more birds than furry critters. More fish than birds. More insects than fish. More plants than insects. If a fellow sets out with a single minded goal of hunting he probably isn't going to fair very well whether he travels or stays put.

Good points!
 
But along with the trapping, is finding and tapping into game sources of the non-conventional kind as well.  Like trapping and "cultivating" a sustainable, reproducing population of pigeons in an abandoned barn or other building if such a building can be located.  Or harvesting animals like raccoons, woodchucks, nutria, etcetera or whatever ..... that other people might overlook or ignore?  We didn't have nutria or woodchucks in the Beehive State, but there was a menace population of (non indigenous) raccoons nearby one community I lived.  Raccoons are not native to Utah (nor red foxes) but both exist there because of fur farms or peoples pets that have gotten into the wild.
 
Also when I lived in Utah (this is one example), I caught several really nice trout out of a stream that went through a mountain golf course!  Did this several times, and from a couple other 'forgotten waters' too.  There actually was a VHS video that was locally produced about fishing in such forgotten, overlooked places.
 
Another 'trick' is sometimes catching trout that might get into irrigation ditches.  When my mother was a small girl, she remembered when my grandfather sometimes caught fish that way.
 
And there was that time ...... several years ago when Utah was flooded and at least one local stream was diverted thru a Salt Lake City street!  (back in the early 1980's).  At least two caught trout were caught on flies ....., documented!     

[mechanic]

I've spent two weeks at a time or more living off the land when I was young.  After two weeks of squirrels, small birds and a few fish,  and no company, you might be ready to shoot yourself.  There is a point where survival is not enough.
 
Would I bug out to survive?  Only for the short term.  We all need community for many reasons.  That's why man has always been a tribal animal.
 
Ben

[vacek]

I know I have belabered this point too often, but if things get that bad, then there will be a ton of domestic meat to easily obtain.  If you live in the Rocky Mountain regions you understand the huge numbers of cattle roaming on national forest, BLM land.
 
Regardless, I am opting to tribal up. 

[vacek]

I had to sign-off on the last note.  I finished some yard work and couldn't stand myself so took a shower.  Anyway, bugging out in the Rocky's would be a sure way to end up a crispy critter.  Think about all the BIG fires we have had in the past few years just by a few people lighting some fires.  Now imagine hundreds if not thousands of "bugger outers" up there with the campfires.  Then think about those nice trout streams now coal black with ash.  Don't believe me?  Come to Ft. Collins and drive up the Poudre River where we had the fires last year. 
 
My point is, at least in the Rocky's bugging out is a wet dream.  I don't know about other areas of the USA.    Find a good community, have some valued skill and equipment. 
 
 

[Ranger99]

um. . . . .there'd also be a lot of
farms and cow pastures littered
with the bodies of those looters
who tried to take animals and produce
from honest citizens.
may be a head or two on fenceposts
here and there. . .

[Soilman]

For my particular situation, bugging out would not be feesible.  I, myself could do it, short term, but with a family, especially a wife, who is NOT comfortable in the least with the out doors, not to mention in no physical shape to be tramping through the woods with a pack, nope, it just ain't happening.  My best bet is to become as self sufficient as possible in a defendable homestead.

[SHOOTALL]

The smart person(s) will have a well stocked pantry for any crisis that may come. Weather , power shortage , any crisis. A fire , chemical spill or civil disruption may require we "bug" out as the area may become unsafe . That should show the wise the need to establish other locations to head for. In my case it is other peoples farm , homes etc. I would bring my supplies if the truck can make it.
 Much easier to defend a farm or home over a tent. Even if you must take trips of extended range to hunt, fish, trap or trade goods it is better to have a se4cure place to come back to. IMHO.

[Bugflipper]

No doubt Shootall. You can't even defend a tent from a fieldmouse if he wants to get to your goodies. 

I always like these threads because you get to see different viewpoints. None really right or wrong because it's all what if, for the most part.

One thing on the game animals and livestock. After the deppresion it took decades for the game populations to recover. A lot of states were still restocking in the 70's and 80's from the decimation of the depression era. There just wasn't much left that wasn't wiped out by the end of the depression. This was when folks were not removed, or were one generation removed from self sufficientcy. Now folks would waste more than they ate.

About the farmer: I would say today that farmer would need a lot of friends or a big family to keep his animals. Society hasn't changed for the better since the depression era. Those stupid horror films from the 50's would terrorize people back then. Today you see worse than that on your local news broadcast. Holding a homestead would be much harder than taking one. Especially when even the mild mannered bookworm banker down the street can take you out when you're going out to water ole' bessy, because he's watching his little girl starve to death and farmer John is the only one in the way of her survival. That would be an example of a half way decent fellow, not the average piece of trash that wouldn't even need an excuse. Today some people kill each other for shoes and jackets. If there were no law imagine what would be going on.

[FPH]

I have too many responsibilities at home to leave them.  I have food, fresh water, weapons and shelter at home.  Besides the desert is cold at night.

[Ranger99]

i'd have to say the bookworm banker was irresponsible
in not preparing to take better care of his girl if
she was starving. stealing from someone else for any
excuse doesn't make it right. if need be one should be
able to go to any church worthy of the name and be fed.
 
a long time ago, when i was a kid my grandpa and me
were at the back of his property and there was a shovel, or
axe or something, and i picked it up and said i found a (whatever it was)
he asked if i had one before i picked it up and i said no.
he told me to put it back where i picked it up from and
that i hadn't "found" anything, and that i knew it didn't
belong to me, and whoever left it there was the owner,
not finders keepers.


having morals and the ability the sort right from wrong is
why we were set above the animals, and when we abandon
those morals and reason no matter the circumstances
is when we become as animals. if we are no better than
animals, i can't see the need to try to survive.


not trying to slam i'm just pointing out that we need
some morality tucked in there with the toilet paper
and waterproof matches when we go out in amongst 'em

[SHOOTALL]

Ranger99 you make a great point and in cases like New Orleans at some point there will be a judgment of actions taken by many. If you hurt people and witnesses survive to tell about it you may be judged for a crime.

[geezerbiker]

I can't think of a situation where bugging out to live in the woods is a good idea.  I have all my supplies here and even if the house was knocked down, I could dig out my stuff slowly.

Also I live in a town that is so out of the way it's not the least bit of a strategic location.  It's not likely to be on anybodies hit list...

Tony

[Oldshooter]

So I guess if ya live in the woods, you hunker down and wait until the hordes come rampaging through looking for sumpn ta eat. I keep hoping with all hope and prayer that some of my children decide to come here to back me up. I really like the post about

There are more birds than furry critters. More fish than birds. More insects than fish. More plants than insects.

That may prove to be a survival technique in itself. I had a crew member once ask me if I would eat raw fish, since I already had, I remarked that if push came to shove I would eat him! Wont know till the situation arises. Never say never.

[Bugflipper]

I live way out in the middle of nowhere on a little farm. No way I could defend it from even a medium group of determined folks, even with prior warning.  But I have food, water, shelter and security. Don't see a point in traipsing across the country in search of what is already here. May get popped by somebody while out tending the garden or animals. But there are just to many variables and unknowns to think life would be safer or better in a bugout surcumstance. Just as much (or more) risk living on the run imho. The more ground covered the gtreater likelihood of encountering more people, some good, some bad. While traveling water, food, maintaining core body temp and security become variables instead of constants. 
I wouldn't fancy eating creepy crawlys or weeds but if starving folks came by to raid the garden I'm not killing anyone over stealing food. There's plenty to eat just about anywhere in America if folks just take the time to learn what's edible in their area. Picking a weed is a lot easier than tending a garden it just won't taste as good.

[SHOOTALL]

So I guess if ya live in the woods, you hunker down and wait until the hordes come rampaging through looking for sumpn ta eat.  I remarked that if push came to shove I would eat him! Wont know till the situation arises. Never say never.

 
First I'm no expert but I have read a bit about cannibalism. What most fail to understand is you don't just decide to eat someone. Your body will go into survival mode limiting energy to what keeps you alive . Things that you would not do when in a good condition will not be a problem as the mind is changed into survival mode. So that statement may be more true than imagined. It may give backing to the Zombie thing.

[WD45]

Well I been thinkin about this too. At first I was a bug out boy. But not now. It seems everyone else will be buggin out so when they all head for the hills I'll stay here and avoid the crowd in the woods    They will leave everything behind for me if I need it and there wont be anyone left to bother me

[Couger]

..... it seems everyone else will be buggin out so when they all head for the hills I'll stay here and avoid the crowd in the woods.  They will leave everything behind for me if I need it and there wont be anyone left to bother me.

yeah right. 
 
Biggest concern I have in a SHTF scenario/crisis are the mobs and gangs I bet will be very visible and dangerous until populations stabilize!  After many deaths and die-offs, as anarchy reigns to whatever degree in whatever specific "forms."
 
As for bugging out, what would relocating look like if it was simply called survival moving or a similar concept?  (moving to 'smalltown' America?)
 
Only one example, but while it might be one thing to live in downtown Timesquare, what would it be like to then reloate to rural upstate New York (if plans were in place making that possible)?  The latter may be in a small rural town, but certainly not a wilderness!
 
Now .....  What states would be best for this sort of thing? 
 
When I think of Kevin Costner's lousy flick, "The Postman,"  much of that yarn seems like it occurs in (parts of) Utah, Nevada, Idaho and Oregon.
 
What I remember from that flick was how some small towns (that could) banded together, even barracading themselves when necessary,
 
but still clinging to civilization! 
 
 
(the reason I collected that flick is precisely that, that it depicts how small towns might could band together ..... )

[Empty Quiver]

A small town capable of providing its own power, water and sanitation. Try getting by without one of those three. You might do it all by your lonesome, but what is gonna happen when 2500 toilets don't flush? How are you going to retrofit 2500 houses with gravity furnaces, by winter, or those same homes operating from a few dug wells?


That town will have a good chance. A small town on a hydro power source, now that would be the berries.

[vacek]

I don't know the actual number but there are great than 200,000 separate municipalities in the US.  Only abuot 17000 have actual wastewater plants for actively treating sewage.  Most of the others use a lagoon system that allows mother nature to treat the wastewater over time.
 
Depending on the depth of groundwater a focused source of fossil fuel and generators can bring up water as a volume enough to serve basic needs of 2500 households.  No, not watering the lawns or everyone getting a shower everyday.  Basic needs.  A small consolidated community with different trade skills is still the best bet.

[ironglow]

  I have long been a believer in the small, guardable, community.  Bug out by yourself ..or a wife and child..How do you provide protection 24/7 and still hunt, trap and forage, say nothing about sleep?  Here in the small hamlet where I live, we could perhaps cordon off an area for 20 families, pool resources and do other tasks while being on guard 24/7.  Some of our hamlet has a local water system..while oyhers still have their well systems.. many of which would work fine simply by placing a pitcher pump on them.
  Most here are hunters  (with plenty of guns and ammo) and some trappers & gardeners, along with some experienced combat veterans...they also include a few EMTs and nurses.. no doctors, but 3 veterinarians, whose skills could be useful.
  When an emergency arises a bugout by highway is not a good plan..  Just last week, those who hunkered in place seem to have fared better than those who hoped to "drive out".  Those guys got caught in a traffic snarl, and faced the tornadoes in the open. 
  Here's an interesting novel concerning a time when the whole country is hammered by EMP (electro magnetic pulse) bombs, which fried all computers..  The hero of the novel led a "community " effort:
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Second_After  There is a movie also..
 
  The book is available through Amazon, for one:  http://www.amazon.com/dp/0765356864
  A good read for anyone considering SHTF scenarios..

[SHOOTALL]

I believe that the worst thing we can do is not be flexible. Those who don't plan to bug out and don't prepare for it will be caught short if in fact they must make a run for it.
Food ? if you don't have it stored or a way to produce it like garden or chickens and the crisis happens in the fall you might be in for a hard winter.
Hunting, if the masses get hungry and revolt. There is a good chance all domestic animals will be gone in a very short time leaving little to produce more. So hunting will be a source but not for long. Starving people will kill a deer and eat a little while the rest spoils.
Medical care. Sanitation and clean water will all be in demand. Water is the one most important thing we need. In a crisis with little medical treatment aval. even a small issue will kill you. Sanitation will be hard but can be accomplished if all work together. A big IF.
 
  So it would seem having friends in different places with agreements to shelter each other in time of need. Having food on hand for such cases etc. And weapons for hunting and protection are all good ideas.
 Keeping the truck or car filled with gas, keeping a kit in the vehicle with survival gear for your area is good. Running a bath tub full of water is a good idea if a crisis might be coming.