Mossberg 500 All Purpose vrs. 870 Express vrs. Pardner Pump

[flmason]

Hi All,
   One longarm on my 'get it list' is a hunting lengthm utility, pump 12 gauge, ideally with screw in chokes.

So these three seem to be the obvious choices. I've read about the Parder and think I'm OK with it. The 870, same story, but actually am leaning toward the Parder between those two, just based on reading.

So, that leaves the Mossberg 500. The budget model seems to be the 500 All Purpose. How's it's design and build compare to the other two?

Just a quick search seems to say the military favors the 590's, supposedly the same gun but with a different magazine arrangement.

Your thoughts?

[mechanic]

Had a Mossberg.  May not be an eye catcher, but solid reliable and gets the job done.  The Pardner is almost a Remington clone looks like.  Never owned one, but wouldn't hesitate a moment.  The Remington is tried and true, just costs a little more.
 
What's not to like about either?
Ben

[flmason]

Had a Mossberg.  May not be an eye catcher, but solid reliable and gets the job done.  The Pardner is almost a Remington clone looks like.  Never owned one, but wouldn't hesitate a moment.  The Remington is tried and true, just costs a little more.
 
What's not to like about either?
Ben

At the moment I don't dislike any of them. Just don't know enough to choose one on the merits. Pretty much had planned on the Pardner actually, but haven't been seeing them at the distributors prefer and have been checking on. Was thinking the wood furniture, though maybe the synthetic really is the better choice. Not sure how I feel about a hollow stock on a 12 gauge.

Saw a few Mossbergs on the availble list, but had never considered them in the past. Not sure how I feel about the alloy receiver, though I'm reading the bolt locks to the barrel, so may not be relevant. On the plus side, apparently still USA made.

So's basically just trying to learn what the design points are.

[streak]

flmason,
I have a couple of Mossbergs in the 600AT model which were supposedly a cheaper cost than the model 500,
I bought these in the early 80`s and for the money they are great guns and keep on ticking! I also have a Remington 870 Express which is a good reliable gun. But the Mossbergs are sure tough shotguns and I have both of mine "tricked out" in a varmint setup and another one with a Hasting slug rifle barrel with scope!

[spruce]

My personal first choice would be the 870.  I've owned a couple of Mossberg 500's and they were good guns, but the 870 just fits me better.  The opposite may be true for you.  Have no experience with the Pardner pump, but from what I've heard it's a solid gun at a good price.
 
Any of the 3 should serve you well.
 
Almost forgot - one advantage to either the 870 or the 500 is there is a zillion of accessories available for them, as well as scads of used barrels floating around.

[Dee]

My actual preference is an 1100 Remington but that isn't the question. Being an instructor for 18 + years (retired) for police, and SWAT, I saw a lot of Remington 870s and Mossberg 500 Persuaders go thru some pretty tuff conditions, and exceptionally heavy use, due to constant training, while shooting heavy magnum police type loads.
Properly maintained I can honestly say, I never saw either shotgun fail. Some not so well maintained shotguns on both brands didn't fail either. Both are great shotguns, but I have always felt that the Mossberg kicks a little harder than the Remington 870 becaused of the aluminum receiver. Does this fact make it less of a shotgun? No, I just think it kicks a little harder.
The Pardner. Never messed with it, and don't know anything about it.

[flmason]

flmason,
I have a couple of Mossbergs in the 600AT model which were supposedly a cheaper cost than the model 500,
I bought these in the early 80`s and for the money they are great guns and keep on ticking! I also have a Remington 870 Express which is a good reliable gun. But the Mossbergs are sure tough shotguns and I have both of mine "tricked out" in a varmint setup and another one with a Hasting slug rifle barrel with scope!

I'm going to let my ignorance show some more here... what is "varmint setup" for a shotgun?

With my limited scattergun experience, I'd think some 6's or 7 1/2' would be the extent of varmint shooting with one. But usually "varmint rifles" mean small caliber, really fast bullets, type setups. 220 Swift. 22-250, etc. So I'm baffled at that term applied to a shotgun.

[flmason]

My actual preference is an 1100 Remington but that isn't the question. Being an instructor for 18 + years (retired) for police, and SWAT, I saw a lot of Remington 870s and Mossberg 500 Persuaders go thru some pretty tuff conditions, and exceptionally heavy use, due to constant training, while shooting heavy magnum police type loads.
Properly maintained I can honestly say, I never saw either shotgun fail. Some not so well maintained shotguns on both brands didn't fail either. Both are great shotguns, but I have always felt that the Mossberg kicks a little harder than the Remington 870 becaused of the aluminum receiver. Does this fact make it less of a shotgun? No, I just think it kicks a little harder.
The Pardner. Never messed with it, and don't know anything about it.

Where the 870's the Express models? Wingmasters? Something else?  I've heard the police models have some different and stronger parts. I think I heard the ejector was different, possibly.

[Dee]

flmason, I have had depts. buy 870s right off the rack, bring them to me, I would cut the barrels down, re-bead them, and put them in patrol cars. We now live in an era of "custom combat guns" where you have to have this, or you must have that.
I did put some different springs in my personal 870, and my personal 1100, but was it necessary? Most likely not. I also changed the stock on my 870 as I prefer the old corn cobb forearm and the more sleek butt stock of a fighting shotgun. As far as heavier internal parts on either the Mossberg 500, or the standard 870 Remington, you don't need them, they will shoot anything their chambered for. Gunsmiths would like you to THINK YOU DO, but their in it to make money.
The hardest thing on either is to break them in. The more you shoot them and work the slide, the slicker they get. I've seen dept shotguns that had been carried and shot so long that if you pointed them straight up and pulled the trigger, they were so slick they would slide open themselves.

[Doublebass73]

Don't overlook the Ithaca 37, that would be my first choice in a pump. Used ones can be had for reasonable prices. After that I'd choose an 870.

[Dee]

I tried the Ithaca Model 37, and found it reliable but, a disadvantage in loading, and unloading, as it loaded and ejected out the bottom. Feeding one round directly into the chamber in an emergency could be a problem. Not so with an 870, or Mossberg 500. This was a major reason for L.E. backing away from them in the late 70s early 80s. As I recall, one had to feed the round into the magazine FIRST, and then cycle the slide to load the chamber. This in a protection gun, could be "deadly slow".
 

[streak]

flmason,
I have a couple of Mossbergs in the 600AT model which were supposedly a cheaper cost than the model 500,
I bought these in the early 80`s and for the money they are great guns and keep on ticking! I also have a Remington 870 Express which is a good reliable gun. But the Mossbergs are sure tough shotguns and I have both of mine "tricked out" in a varmint setup and another one with a Hasting slug rifle barrel with scope!

I'm going to let my ignorance show some more here... what is "varmint setup" for a shotgun?

With my limited scattergun experience, I'd think some 6's or 7 1/2' would be the extent of varmint shooting with one. But usually "varmint rifles" mean small caliber, really fast bullets, type setups. 220 Swift. 22-250, etc. So I'm baffled at that term applied to a shotgun.

Got it set up with special camouflage stock and forend, fiber optic front sight, and "Patternmaster" choke which throws a deadly pattern out to 55-70 yards of #4 buckshot! Sometimes I wrap the barrel with camoflage tape. It is a Model 600AT Mossberg 12 Gauge and will do a number on coyote size varmints!

[FPH]

I tried the Ithaca Model 37, and found it reliable but, a disadvantage in loading, and unloading, as it loaded and ejected out the bottom. Feeding one round directly into the chamber in an emergency could be a problem. Not so with an 870, or Mossberg 500. This was a major reason for L.E. backing away from them in the late 70s early 80s. As I recall, one had to feed the round into the magazine FIRST, and then cycle the slide to load the chamber. This in a protection gun, could be "deadly slow".

 I like the Rem. 870 & 1100 along with the Benelli.  However, I have a 37 at this time and do not consider it to be slow  to load compared to the others (especially  with the 2 3/4 shells).

[cudatruck]

having owned a few 870s a couple old winchesters and three mossberg 500s i would vote for the mossberg. the 590 is only worth the extra money if it already has all the features you want. if not, you are better off with a 500 model. it is cheaper to buy and then customize. BUT, your question was more to a hunting arm? If this gun will never,or rarely, be asigned protection duty i would go to several gun shops and see how each felt when shouldered in hurry like onto a rising pheasant! the way the gun fits and feels when you shoulder and then swing into a birds path is what matters most. For just pure enjoyment and easier hits on upland game get the gun that feels best to you. All three are plenty reliable for hunting. If you plan to swap barrels often the mossberg has the advantage of not having the spring and follower come out every time. Good luck in your shopping.

[Doublebass73]

I tried the Ithaca Model 37, and found it reliable but, a disadvantage in loading, and unloading, as it loaded and ejected out the bottom. Feeding one round directly into the chamber in an emergency could be a problem. Not so with an 870, or Mossberg 500. This was a major reason for L.E. backing away from them in the late 70s early 80s. As I recall, one had to feed the round into the magazine FIRST, and then cycle the slide to load the chamber. This in a protection gun, could be "deadly slow".

I see your point but at the same time the Ithaca 37 was used in combat during WWII and Vietnam so I'm not sure if it's ever been an issue in practice there. The Ithaca 37 also can be slamfired but I'm not sure how much of an advantage that is in real situations due to recoil.

[flmason]

having owned a few 870s a couple old winchesters and three mossberg 500s i would vote for the mossberg. the 590 is only worth the extra money if it already has all the features you want. if not, you are better off with a 500 model. it is cheaper to buy and then customize. BUT, your question was more to a hunting arm? If this gun will never,or rarely, be asigned protection duty i would go to several gun shops and see how each felt when shouldered in hurry like onto a rising pheasant! the way the gun fits and feels when you shoulder and then swing into a birds path is what matters most. For just pure enjoyment and easier hits on upland game get the gun that feels best to you. All three are plenty reliable for hunting. If you plan to swap barrels often the mossberg has the advantage of not having the spring and follower come out every time. Good luck in your shopping.

Yes, I'd buy the hunting length barrel first. If it had to do SHTF duty a hacksaw would cover the difference, LOL!. Not really considering the 18" barreled "defender type models. Basically wanting a pump 12 guage with screw in chokes, primarily for the ammo versatility and choice of chokes. My current 12 gauge is just the venerable H&R SB1-011 single barrel.  Like the bolt action '06, Lever 30-30, etc. I just consider a pump 12 to be a basic thing to own.

Given my druthers it'd have an exposed hammer like the ancient Marlins and Winchesters etc. But those don't seem to be made any more?

Would like a good double barrel someday too.

[foxchase]

I have Remington Express 870s, Mossberg 500s and Ithaca 37s.

If you want a lot of options, accessories and screw in chokes then consider the 870 and 500. Between the the two for fit and finish I'd choose the 500. You can usually even buy a good used one for around $200.00.

[cudatruck]

We buy the mossberg 500 combos at big5 sporting goods. last one was 269.00. comes with a 28" fixed mod choke vent rib and 18.5" security barrel. I sell the 18.5, cut the 28" down to 18.5 and install sights lengthen the forcing cone and it gets used for a HD barrel. buy the barrel we want to hunt with removable chokes and when it's all added up I think we come out alright. The best HD barrel i have made was a slugster heavy barrel 24" with rifle sights but smooth bore. cut it down to 18.5 re soldered on the front sight lengthened the forcing cone and reamed and tapped for choke tubes. Found it shot 00 buck best with a #1 skeet choke. All 9 pellets in a 3.5 inch circle at 30 feet. Lots of work but a really cool project. Good luck with yours, Mike.

[RevJim]

 The Ithaca is slower to "swap" ammo ( buckshot, slug, bean bag) in than the conventional 870/500 type. I took a course where one didn't move from one point to another w/o unloading the chamber/closing the bolt first. The idea behind this was that a shotgun does not have the military style "drop safe" safety. I never cottoned too much to the idea, but hey, the guy teaching it had been in more gunfights than I ever hoped not to be in, ha. I still feel fine just using the safety on them, but most training includes the swapping out of mission specific ammo. The lighter Mossberg works swell on upland game, and any pump will hurt for fast shooting on waterfowl...I like the gas operated autos for them!

[jlwilliams]

  I know this is an old thread, but I noticed an important comparison point hadn't been brought up.  The biggest practical difference between the Mossberg 500 and the Remington 870 (and the Pardner copy of it) is the location of the safety.  The Remington has a cross bolt by the trigger and the Mossberg has a slide on top of the receiver.  Some people prefer the slide on top because you can see it by glancing at the gun.  If you go for the pistol grip set ups, that style safety can't be reached while holding the grip.  If you prefer the pistol grip, or just prefer the cross bolt safety, then go for the gun that comes that way.
  The safety location is a personal preference.  Neither set up is wrong.  Whatever works for you is what's right for you.  Don't pick a gun based on price alone or what someone else likes.  Take that into account, but get the gun that suits you best.

[SHOOTALL]

Like said both Mossberg and Remington are tuff guns . I have hunted with both. I kept the 870 because there is more parts aval. to up grade choke tubes etc. . In most cases the parts are easier to get. Some 500's don't allow magazine extensions.
 But the main reason I kept the 870 was the way it shot or rather how it behaved when shooting. It was very nimble compared to the more block like 500. Yes that is a personal opinion but when hunting a quick and easy to get on target gun means more game in the bag . I would suggest when shopping mount the guns a lot and notice what fits best. Then hold the gun a few min. see what is comfortable to hold or carry.

[guzzijohn]

Being a lefty I prefer the Ithica 37. With a lefty shooting a right handed 870 if you are not careful you can cant the 870 just enough that when feeding the next round it goes out the ejection port instead of the chamber, CLICK!
GuzziJohn

[SHOOTALL]

Being a lefty I prefer the Ithica 37. With a lefty shooting a right handed 870 if you are not careful you can cant the 870 just enough that when feeding the next round it goes out the ejection port instead of the chamber, CLICK!
GuzziJohn

With all due respect if the shell  falls out the ejection port you are operating the gun to slow.  JMHO Because in hunting and class I have operated the gun laying on my side with the port down many times .