Pot smoking operator..

[ironglow]

  More of the benefits accrued when dopers move among us.
          http://news.yahoo.com/operator-philly-collapse-deaths-custody-065839563.html

[yellowtail3]

  More of the benefits accrued when dopers move among us.
          http://news.yahoo.com/operator-philly-collapse-deaths-custody-065839563.html

Don't be a sucker and a fool, because the story fits your narrative this time. How many times have we heard some variety of, "See what happens when citizens have unfettered access to guns! We've got to do something!!!" - I'll bet you have about as much tolerance for that malarky as I do. Same thing here.

If it turns out the guy in question was truly the cause of collapse, and it can be traced to negligent operation of equipment... we've got laws & remedies for that. But it smells to me like scapegoating, right now. Just read what hizzoner had to say...

[spruce]

If it's proven he was operating the equipment while high then he should be held accountable for his actions, the same as someone operating a car while high and killing someone.
 
Obviously the mayor is in a rush to wash his hands of any responsibility!  It appears maybe the demolition company is sort of a "fly by night" operation.  Approved and licensed by the city - and probably little, if any, city inspections of the site during the demolition.  I'm thinking there's enough negligence to share!
 
Don't agree the property owner should be held liable.  After all, he's not a demolition expert.  That's why he hired a city licensed demolition company. 

[ironglow]

  I wonder if this had happened in Colorado..would he be charged?   
 
  There's no NEED,
       To be a slave to the WEED !

[gr8ful]

I don't care what he was high on weed, booze, or prescription meds.  If he was impaired he has no business on the job. PERIOD  and if he is found to be the cause of the collapse he should be punished accordingly.  He is responsible for his own actions, and the contractor is also liable for overlooking his condition and history.

[guzzijohn]

I don't think weed was his only problem. He has had 16 traffic violations for suspended license, no tags, no insurance, etc.
GuzziJohn

[Anna]

Wait a minute, was he high at the time of the accident or did he just flunk the drug test?
What did they use to determine this, urine, blood, a bugle swab or a hair sample?
Gotta go with YT3 on this one as far as the scapegoating even with his history.
With this being weed we don't know if he was high at the time of the accident or had only recently
been a user. They drag these guys in all the time even when they have injured themselves.
And they show to be dirty but pot is real bad about that but it doesn't mean they were high at the
time. Someone is passing the buck here like they always do with weed, but judging by his lawyers
response someone is dropping the ball. I'm totally against legalization but I'm also against
victimization by company's trying to cover their bu++s. We had a hair sample showing a woman
used pot 30 days ago but nothing up to the current. But like I've said employers have the right
to fire someone if they flunk the test no matter what. But to blame them for anything when the
results show different is just wrong.                                                                                           

Guys I can grab yeast samples that will tell me how much you had to drink and how long ago within
48 hours of your being drunk. They can even tell if it was whiskey or beer or even wine.
Would it then be ok for me to conclude you were drunk on the job? We can establish your nicotine
levels from smoking and there is a threshold where to much nicotine impairs your ability to be safe.
Should you be fired because you had to many cigarettes during your smoke break? 
I'm not defending this guy he has a lawyer for that, but I am questioning this story. If they knew
he had this history then why was he allowed to operate this equipment? If I see your drunk or
I suspect your drunk but I still let you drive my truck then aren't I also to blame if you wreak it?
If your going to have this kind of mindset then lets just ban everything including coffee.
I don't want to be around anyone who is high on nicotine and buzzing away on caffeine!
And these are immediate and permissible substances in the work place not something you did two
days ago. How about a diabetic who isn't watching their blood sugar? They can get pretty crazy
acting so lets go after them also. Don't laugh it is coming down to things like that,right down to your
sun glasses were to dark. Anything to avoid accident litigation and the ambulance chasers who rake
it in over cases like this.

 


 

[Oldshooter]

Benschop's attorney, Daine Grey, defended his client.
"This was an accident, but Mr. Benschop is not responsible," Grey said Saturday. "And we believe that, in time, the facts will show that he is not responsible."

If he walked away and was arrested later "high" or failed a drug test, (i aint a lawyer) it may be hard to prove pot was the cause!
 
Similar thing happened, to Joe Hazelwood, After the Valdez was on the big rock he went to his cabin and got drunk because he knew his career as Exxon Captain was over! The press had a field day with that , remember?

[Anna]

Benschop's attorney, Daine Grey, defended his client.
"This was an accident, but Mr. Benschop is not responsible," Grey said Saturday. "And we believe that, in time, the facts will show that he is not responsible."

If he walked away and was arrested later "high" or failed a drug test, (i aint a lawyer) it may be hard to prove pot was the cause!
 
Similar thing happened, to Joe Hazelwood, After the Valdez was on the big rock he went to his cabin and got drunk because he knew his career as Exxon Captain was over! The press had a field day with that , remember?

That's my point they can't prove anything if he wasn't tested properly and on the spot.
I'm no lawyer either but I've seen these cases fall apart in court.
Hair would tell the story but in some cases you would have to have a court order to retrieve that.
And I'm talking follicle not just the hair itself. But even that's inconclusive without a soft tissue
to go with it (bugle swab).  Even then its only going to place that within a 12 hour window, but they
are working on a breath particle test that would put it within the hour.
With all the legalization going on LE wants something they can rely on in the field for immediate
intoxication results. Meth is the scary one standard test are not good enough to nail this down
if the user is well hydrated. But 3M is saying that a practical test would do the trick.
Meth if smoked leaves substances in your lungs that can be detected for days after its use.
Substance levels in your breath would determine how long ago you used it just like with pot.
Other than that urine would determine if your immediately using it or not.
But in a case of DWI certain criteria has to be meet involving a persons rights. Breath is different
because they are not taking anything from you like a bodily fluid or a hair.
 
 

[ChungDoQuan]

Anna and YT are right. This is a BS story. Something that's happening "behind the scenes," especially in health care, is that many institutions are removing marijuana testing from their toxicology screening. It's not clinically significant and it's turning out to be more trouble than it's worth. Sure, you can tell if someone has marijuana metabolites in their blood. The problem is that it stays in some people's blood for so long. There is still no way to tell if they were high at a particular time, which is what they're being accused of. There are incidents of so many staff testing positive for pot that entire hospitals would have to close if they fired everyone for a positive test.

[briarpatch]

Under the scapegoating this is more about backhanded mob politics, payoffs, shoddy construction work and having to cover up what goes on in city contracts than some dude smoking pot.
Right now they need a boat to get them out of the cess pool and the operator is it. 

[SHOOTALL]

It may be hard to believe but I would venture to guess more construction sites have people who would test positive for pot than not test positive. At least a few. I have a friend who ALWAYS got picked for random drug test. His group had 5-6 welders in it and he was the only one who was not using something that would fail the test. THE RANDOM TEST  . I have walked off jobs because equipment operators were to drunk to operate . Unless you have worked construction you have no idea. I stopped a guy once trying to cut into a live gas line with a torch. I have seen people high shoot themselves with a nail gun , cut themselves with a skill saw and get electrocuted . It is a problem to be sure. So bad if all users were fired work would be behind for weeks or more.
 They clean up take the test and go to work. In most cases don't get tested again unless there is evidence of use or they want to get rid of him. If by chance he is tested in many cases he is told of the test and if he decides to not take the test he is allowed to quit , AND come back after 30 days if he test negative for drugs .  And he has no positive drug test on his record.
 until mandatory testing is the rule there will be no change.

[ironglow]

I don't care what he was high on weed, booze, or prescription meds.  If he was impaired he has no business on the job. PERIOD  and if he is found to be the cause of the collapse he should be punished accordingly.  He is responsible for his own actions, and the contractor is also liable for overlooking his condition and history.

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  There's the truth folks!
 
  No matter what the cause weed, booze or prescription... it disgusts me when people relish the cases where one of these imbibers escaped justice by way of a "technicality", after hurting or killing somebody.   I hear people often thinking how it was "cool" how some miscreant got away with manslaughter on a "technicality".. it's sickening..
 
       

[ChungDoQuan]

All that proves is that you don't know much about pot.

[ironglow]

All that proves is that you don't know much about pot.

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  You're right, and I 'm not interested..  Obviously you are familiar with dope..we can tell..by your posts..

[Anna]

CDQ, you and I are in the testing business, more you than I. I only get em when their habits have
gone to far and that is with very few pot smokers. I get the fun ones, the meth heads mostly that
may have been supporting their meth habit by selling pot but they wouldn't touch that stuff with
a ten foot pole. One meth head asked me why would she want to use something that only makes her
raid the refrigerator?  Meth heads think they are invincible supermen who have a metal window
in thier mind to the workings of the universe.

The only pot smokers I ever get are kids that got caught useing or selling it and a court order sends
them to us. Really a waist of time in my opinion all they do is sit and talk about dating and that's
hormones not pot smoking. I get a few adult pot heads but they usually are adding harder drugs
to that mix and it takes some time to get that out of them. Pot heads don't try to rip off car doors
or strangle the neighbors big dog for barking at them. Domestic violence is a pretty good indicator
of alcohol or meth abuse, pot only comes into it because the other two were included.
A person who has been a habitual pot smoker for a long time is like herding around a hampster.
They do exactly what I tell them to do with no argument whatsoever. And its yes ma'am and no
ma'am and they usually finish out their probation with no violations. 

If your going to keep alcohol leagle along with cigarettes then back off pot and go after meth.
That stuff is horrible it makes all other illegal drugs look pale by comparison.
CDQ and I have talked about this and he knows about this stuff because of the business he is in.
He knows what he is talking about. But you don't bust someone or blame them because they may
have smoked or delt pot weeks ago. Or we may as well go for the gold and ban all of it.
Which would suite me just fine.

[ironglow]

Anna;
  Did not many of the meth heads, crack heads and cocaine users..start their downward spiral on pot ?

[Anna]

Anna;
  Did not many of the meth heads, crack heads and cocaine users..start their downward spiral on pot ?

Yes they did that is a very valid point IG. But study's have shown many of them started with
smoking cigarettes at a young age then progressed to pot. Then so on and so on.
Its a cultural or pier pressure issue and the more it progresses the easyer it gets to try the next step
up. I am not on the interdiction or preventive side of this issue I am on the recovery and metal
health end of it. I may sound like I am sideing with others but the fact is I want it all banned if
people can't control themselves. Anything used in excess leads to other things then its me or others
like me who have to clean up the mess. And its becoming a very big mess.


[size=78%]  [/size]

[Empty Quiver]

In unreported news tens of thousands of pot smokers went to work and caused not a bit of trouble.


Can we agree that the problem is in the performance of the job? Would it matter if it were prescription pain killers or alcoholism or sleep deprivation? A sick baby at home or a trip to the casino? What about a fishing trip that meant an extra long drive home?


It's the sin not the sinner.

[yellowtail3]

All that proves is that you don't know much about pot.

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  You're right, and I 'm not interested..  Obviously you are familiar with dope..we can tell..by your posts..

Actually, Ironglow, it seems that you are interested. You started this thread, parroting what you read, because it fits your prejudices. You like to equate pot use/legalization advocacy, with being stoned/inebriated whilst operating heavy equipment, and... likely to be stoned always.


You've bought a lie, and you're bolstering it here.

[SHOOTALL]

All that proves is that you don't know much about pot.

 
 
is that a bad thing ?

[ChungDoQuan]

Is lack of knowledge EVER good?

[yellowtail3]

Is lack of knowledge EVER good?

Well, apparently - it's both comforting and a point of pride with some folks.

[gypsyman]

Since it looks like this guy knew all about pot, and managed to kill 6 people, I'll stick to a mixed drink at home, or a cold beer on the patio. gypsyman

[mcwoodduck]

  More of the benefits accrued when dopers move among us.
          http://news.yahoo.com/operator-philly-collapse-deaths-custody-065839563.html

Don't be a sucker and a fool, because the story fits your narrative this time. How many times have we heard some variety of, "See what happens when citizens have unfettered access to guns! We've got to do something!!!" - I'll bet you have about as much tolerance for that malarky as I do. Same thing here.

If it turns out the guy in question was truly the cause of collapse, and it can be traced to negligent operation of equipment... we've got laws & remedies for that. But it smells to me like scapegoating, right now. Just read what hizzoner had to say...

But unlike Guns, Pot is illegal in the US.  If a state, city or person can ignore the pot laws, then why can we not ignore any other law they see as unjust victom less crime?
And pot and other drugs are not victom less you have to look at all the deaths that the illegal drugs have and are causing here in the US for fights over control of the trade the corner, the muling of those drugs into and across the country.  Even from state and cities that have decriminalized it to states that still hold it as criminal. 
In reality the last ounce of Pot you bought could have you indicted for murder after the fact.  Even the seeds you used to grow the plants you have in your back yard came from a criminal enterprise that took lives to get you that first bud. 
You may see it as bucking the system and breaking the silly rules, but you are helping to kill a few dozen people a year to further your victomless crime.
And my next question is if you cna pick what you think is an unjust law why cna I not pick what I think is unjust and ignore it too?  If all men are created Equal and you are allowed to break laws why can I not deside that 45% of my total pay in taxes is too much and only pay 20%  10 to the feds and 10 to the state?  Why do I have to pay for parking on a public street in a city I pay taxes to pay for the roads?   
The illegal sale of these drugs is robbing the government of Billions of Dollars in taxes.  Why do you not have to pay taxes and I do?
 

[Victor3]

Benschop's attorney, Daine Grey, defended his client.
"This was an accident, but Mr. Benschop is not responsible," Grey said Saturday. "And we believe that, in time, the facts will show that he is not responsible."

If he walked away and was arrested later "high" or failed a drug test, (i aint a lawyer) it may be hard to prove pot was the cause!
 
Similar thing happened, to Joe Hazelwood, After the Valdez was on the big rock he went to his cabin and got drunk because he knew his career as Exxon Captain was over! The press had a field day with that , remember?

 David Letterman said he was just trying to use the ship to scrape some ice and salt off of the reef for his margarita. 

[SHOOTALL]

Is lack of knowledge EVER good?

 
sure unless you want your 3rd grade daughter to have first hand experience with romance..........

[Anna]

Well if you look at all the other lunacy that's going on besides the drug front. Like this taxing people
on tax they haven't paid because they didn't buy something to get taxed on.
Its just a matter of time where we could be charged for drug evasion. Of course it will be the drug
they want us to have, and let your imagination figure out what that drug would do to us.
But a lot of times Sci Fi accurately predicts certian things and this one has been resounded in that
media now for over fifty years. I can think of several drugs they could use all under the guise of
its going to help us, make us better, and cure all the things that that need fixing in our lives.
And if you dont take it, well do the math. Methods being discussed here in drug screening could
become mandatory on a federal level to ensure you are taking it.
Odds are you would, in fact you wouldn't want to do without it it will be so wonderful.
Everything is so just peachy, I feel so good, I am so glad my government is taking care of me like
this. Visions of the so called liberal utopia. 

[Anna]

And a great place to get this started would be in cigarettes and alcohol. That is a large % of the
population as well as in all these illegal drugs they can't seem to control.
I also wonder how much ibuprofen it is that Americans now consume?     
" Dang Anna, I just can't seem to get these old bones moving without it. What did they ever do
before this came along?"

[ironglow]

Is lack of knowledge EVER good?

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  Chung;
  It's not a lack of knowledge, so much as how that knowledge is acquired...  I don't have to stick my finger in a pot of molten lead to know it will burn me..
     
   " Some folks learn by reading, some learn by observing...still others have to pee on the electric fence for themselves"
     
   We should be smarter than the average mutt!    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8fwtkC5UJU  
 
    Still, some people are slow learners..  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuT79I_IoJA