Asian water buffalo with the .45-70 Handi?

[jeepmann1948]

Plenty of Asian Water Buffalos were shot with 5.56, 7.62.50 cals,37 mm,20mm ,etc. They were a means on conveyance for munitions. With a properly placed round on a load of explosives they became instantly tenderized and chopped! (AND THE GOOK LEADING THEM AS WELL)
George

[cudatruck]

Tim sir, That is a great offer! Yes I would like to try those out and possibly use the throater. Don't know if it will need it but  I suspect it will. How do I get the measurement you asked for? fill case with water and weigh on scale compare to empty weight? I tried a couple of lead bullets with a wider meplate and they engage the rifling quite close to the case mouth. The other lead bullets I have used are narrower at the front and wider at the bands, bore riders? I read the reviews on the 300ttsx on midway also. Looks like a grand bullet that would comply with the no lead rule. I think barnes said they need to be doing 1600 at impact to open reliably? is this right?

[quickdtoo]

The 300gr TTSX is designed for the 458 SOCOM, that's 300gr at 1900fps MV, so you'd be good to go.  To check water weight capacity, weigh an empty fire formed case, not deprimed, not resized, fill with water to overflow and weigh again, subtract empty weight from total, on my digital scale I zero the scale with the dry empty on the scale, then the filled weight is just the water capacity. 

Tim

[craigster]

The M193 5.56 55gr FMJ will easily kill an Asian buff at 100 yds with a well placed shot. Ask me how I know.

OK, I cna be the strait man.
Craigster, how do you know a 5.56 FMJ will kill an Asian Buffalo?   

Let's just say I have some first hand knowledge. I payed attention and learned a lot during the 13 months I spent in a certain SE Asian country that had a large population of Asian water buffaloes.

[Couger]

 
Will be reloading some .45/70 soon, and was looking in my most recent Nosler manual at their .458 cal 300 grainer Partition flat-nose, flat base bullet.
 
I don't recall the exact velocity, but around 2100 fps (I think!).  Certainly over 2K .....
 
 
 
The fellow who wrote about the .45/70 in that 6th ed manual told about a Cape Buff he killed on the Dark Continent with an 18 1/2" Marlin Guide gun.
 
His first shot at an old very large [and normally solitary]bull went all the way through its shoulders, and hit a cow 6 or 8 feet behind they didn't see.  (the hunter and his PH tracked that bull more than 10 miles before it joined the herd .....)
 
He also shot it a 2nd and 3rd time. 
 
Last shot was a Texas Heart shot that entered just under its tail.
 
The 300 grain Parttion that was recovered was just under the hide in the chest area.
 
All the advice shared about the effectiveness of the .45/70 sounds good to me! 
 
Only thing I'd check on the lead cast slugs is that they're water quenched if I was casting them (out of wheel weights),
or if they're hard enough if store bought. 
 
Otherwise ...... please take lots of pics of your hunt!  Congratulations! 

[mannyrock]

  My friend in college shot one in Vietnam with an M60 grenade launcher.  Had nice pics.


Manny

[mcwoodduck]

  My friend in college shot one in Vietnam with an M60 grenade launcher.  Had nice pics.


Manny

M-60 is a Machine gun belt fed in 308Win loosely based on the MG42
M-79 is a 40mm gernade launcher.

[gelandangan]

I seriously doubt buffaloes are getting stronger in the last few decades.


We used to shoot them with 308, one shot deal most of them.


Here is a video of the "Great Australian Buffalo Hunt" where large quantity of wild water buffaloes are harvested for meat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OneyeUxzL40&feature=youtu.be


The rifle is Ruger M77 with 308 NATO cartridge.


If you are using 45-70, most any standard load would be good enough provided that you place the shot right.

[walkingwolf]

A cast bullet is a bad choice. Barnes x or solid. Around 2300 fps.

[dodd3]

Well said Hoyt    

Brent, that load stops both the bus AND the driver.  It's not rocket science.  It's pretty much all there on Hodgdon's .45-70 Modern  Rifle loads.  I use a .405 Remington and slightly less IMR 4198 on the max end.  It works.  1950 fps.  A 400 - .405 hard cast would work also.  Asian buffs ain't armor plated, they're not an African Cape Buffalo.  I have no reason to believe an '06 with the right load wouldn't work.  More than a few elephants have been killed with them, so I don't know where that farmer is coming from.  I believe most farmers are not gun experts....and I'm a farmer.

In Italy, where I lived for three years, farmers milk Asian Buffs and make Mozzarella Cheese.  It's the preferred cheese, very rich.  Throughout the Eastern world, they are beasts of burden, as well as food and milk.  In my opinion, three grand to shoot one is a bit much.  It's more than the average Third World farmer sees in a year.  You could shoot a  prime Angus Bull for that or less. Depending on the level of domestication, it could be like shooting Holsteins at a dairy barn, or they could be wild and more of a challenge......I don't know.

Good luck and let us know how you make out.

Pete

pete water buffalo in  northern australia have been wild for nearly 200 years and can be very mean when wounded and allso mean when when surprised  i am talking from my experience with them,i have taken them with a .58 frontstuffer and the 45/70. about 25 years ago an american guy came here with a Farquharson 500 nitro and used hard cast round balls instead of slugs with bad results as soon as he cast some round balls in near pure lead he had great one shot kills.you dont need hard cast bullets to drop them.
Bernie
 

[dodd3]

A cast bullet is a bad choice. Barnes x or solid. Around 2300 fps.

no that is wrong a cast heavy bullet in a 20 to 1 mix will drop a water buffalo no probs with a well placed shot been there done that i live in australia i have taken 5 of them one with a .58 front stuffer the rest with  the 45/70.
Bernie

[Groo]

Groo here
 JD Jones shot a buff in Australia with a Contender 45-70 12 inch and Hornidy 500 gr FMJ 458 bullets [ somewhar I got the load, data , bullets ,and a barrel {14in}]
 The load was doing about 1400, went through the horn boss and about 6 ft of buff [ under 25 yds]
 So I doubt you will have any problem making a load that will work,just be sure to use a strong bullet and put it in a good spot!!]
 

[wtroger]

One of my best friends who was old enough to be my Dad had a 45/70 in an 1886 win. They had a bull founder and die when he was a kid weighed some where in the neighborhood of a ton. The 45/70 with lead bullet and black powder would shoot completely through  from any direction including stem to stern. So I think it will be plenty of gun for your Asian buf.

[siamese4570]

Several years ago, Brian Pierce wrote an article for Handloader (I think) about hunting cape buffalo with a marlin 45-70.  Worked ok for him.  Of course I am prejudiced when it comes to the 45-70.  Ask me why.
siamese4570