Author Topic: How Long will that lever last ?  (Read 856 times)

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Offline jh45gun

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How Long will that lever last ?
« on: February 23, 2004, 10:07:22 AM »
One interesting thing that I have found out looking at a gun guide doing some research.
Every one on the web that argues about the Winchester VS Henry say how the Winchester has lasted and the Henry will not. I think some surmise that the Winchester is older than it is. I have talked to guys who have shot the Henry in its Erma and Ithica Guises and one in a Iver Johnson all these guns are the same gun as the Henry only under different names as the family that owns the Henry company now had Erma build them first. The Winchester was introduced in 1972 and the Erama in 1976 so they are both about the same age. Since the 22 has different internal parts than the Winchester centerfires I guess us Henry fans who hear only time will tell on the durability of that gun can say the same about the Winchester on how it will stand the test of time as they are darn near the same age. This is not to knock the Winchester or praise the Henry but to show that since they are about the same age only time will tell on both of them on how well they last not just one of them. Jim


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Offline whitecloud

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How Long will that lever last ?
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2004, 12:08:15 PM »
I am not sure what model you are talking about ,but my winchester 250 was made in 1962 or 64 cant remember. I just did have it rebuilt this past summer.(ejector,extactor,springs).Not bad considering well over 50,000 rounds to take a guess.(or more).My son has a henry for coon hunting and loves it,never had a problem with it except when new,firing pin broke,since return from factory all is well. couple thousand rounds thru it I would guess.

Offline John Traveler

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Winchester M9422
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2004, 04:34:43 AM »
Whitecloud,

I'm sure he is comparing the durability of the Winchester M9422 (lookalike of the M1894) .22 rifle to the Henry/Erma/Ithaca .22 lever action rifle.

The Winchester M250, while a fine rifle too, is not a cosmetic copy of the classic M1894 lever action.

John
John Traveler

Offline JohnClif

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Winchester 9422 versus Henry .22 lever action...
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2004, 02:28:47 PM »
Well... the original Ermas weren't made of the highest-quality materials and that's my impression of the Henrys as well.  Will they hold up?

It depends on what "hold up" means to you.  Will they be functional?  An early Stevens Favorite, made of cheap metals, will still fire a cartridge after all these years... but it will be one loose gun and won't be accurate.  The Henry works and shoots, but for how long?  The Henry's barrel ought to hold up, but I would think the action would get loose after a decade or two of hard shooting.

In contrast, the 9422's internals are all made of quality steel and given a modicum of care should remain just about as tight as when the gun was made.  I have thousands of rounds through my 9422 and it is still very tight, and shoots very well.

You're looking at the difference between $250 or thereabouts for the Henry versus $380 or thereabouts for the 9422.  Anyone on this list (who can obviously afford Internet service) can afford to buy the 9422... and why they don't is a mystery to me.  Is $150 or less going to break anyone reading this?  Heck, before I'd buy a Henry I'd pick up one of the Taurus 62 pumps (a decently made gun using quality materials that will hold up for decades), save some money and get a better rifle.

Here's my questions to those who would buy a Henry over the Taurus pump, much less the 9422: why would you pay more for an inferior product?  Why won't you spend the equivalent of one fast food meal per month for a couple of years to buy a gun that will outlast you and that will be far more pleasurable to own, show off to your friends, and shoot?

I just don't get it....

Offline jh45gun

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How Long will that lever last ?
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2004, 03:16:53 PM »
Well john I do not know why folks like you who own the winchester still bash the Henry as it is conjunture on your part and nothing else!!!!  :(  I have talked to folks that have used these guns ( Erma, and Ithica,  since the 70's and shot thousands of rounds through them and they are going strong. I am sure that you would not bash a ruger 10/22 that has a steel barrel and steel bolt yet is housed in a alloy receiver??? Well so does the Henry a steel barrel and a steel bolt housed in a alloy receiver.  As far as my affording guns I am SS disability and make around 600 bucks a month to live on. You tell me how many guns I can buy with that kind of money!! I bought the mag version of the Henry which cost more than the 22 LR as in with the Winchester. I traded a 22 mag Savage striker to buy this gun and the Henry in my opinion is a better gun, it as a bettter trigger and is more accurate. One more thing I bought this gun to shoot and enjoy I could care less if some one down the line inherits it I will be gone and will not care!! One comment about the Stevens favorite. I had one and it shot well considering it had bad headspace I dumped it and have regreted it since as I know know a gun smith could have fixed it easily. These recievers are sought after by gunsmiths to redo as the market shows as Savage came back out with a modern version. I look at most all guns as fuctional unless broken. I suppose you would look down your nose at the milsurps I shoot also. I do not mean to rant but I get tired of  armchair experts who because they own one brand bash a other. Too be honest with you I liked the Henry better than the winchester I looked at and yes the cost had something to do with it but not every thing as the winchesters  gritty lever and the not as good metal to wood fit had a big difference to me also as with  the wood quality. Does that mean all winchesters are bad of course not and if you and others prefer them fine. Also maybe the one I looked at was not the norm but it did make a impression on me not to buy it as I felt it was not worth the money. I do not know maybe after some shooting the winchesters smooth out I am sure they are good guns but in my opinion so are the Henrys for a better price and great service which means a lot also. John if you like that winchester great more power to you and all that own them but I do not feel you have to bash my Henry as you do not know how long it will last but since I have heard of examples of the Erma and Ithica lasting since the 70's I think this Henry will last me fine. And if I do have a problem I am sure that Henry will fix it pronto.  as to your last line I just do not get it well I have the same problem with folks that bash what I shoot as if I enjoy it that is all that matters same for what you or any one else shoots. I cannot stress enough that the 2 main parts of the gun that take the most abuse are steel on steel so I think that takes care of any strengh problems just as the 10/22. Jim
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline JohnClif

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How Long will that lever last ?
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2004, 10:20:53 PM »
Well... as a dealer I have owned several of the Henrys and I have shot them (after customers purchased them -- I made it a point to shoot at least one of EVERY model that went out the door, not a lot of fun with the .460 Weatherby!).  I have examined them and also dissassembled them and fixed/adjusted them.  I have also examined, shot, and owned the earlier Erma version.  So, I believe I have some validity for my claims, rather than just being an armchair pontificator... but since I haven't owned a Henry for years I will accept that label also!

Please don't take my preference of the 9422 over the Henry as personal criticism because it wasn't meant that way.  Instead, understand that I love quality firearms and I want quality manufacturers to succeed, and I also want individuals to understand that quality doesn't cost, it pays.  I've sold Henrys... some customers liked them and some customers came back and got a different rifle.  I've never had a BL-22, 39, or 9422 come back in trade (I'm sure they do, but I've never had it happen) and all of my customers who bought these rifles have been extremely happy with them.

The Henrys certainly work, and most people who buy them understand what they're getting and the tradeoff involved and therefore must feel that the rifle is where they want it to be on the cost/quality scale.  That doesn't make them, or the Henry, good or bad, right or wrong.

In the gun world, there are Hyundais, Hondas, and Mercedes.  All three will get you where you want to go when they're new.  As you spend more money, you get more features, more quality, and more longevity.  If you're only going to drive to church on Sundays and keep it in a garage, you will get great service from a Hyundai.  If you are going to commute 60 miles to work every day you will get great service from a Honda.  If you plan to keep the car for a decade or more and will put 20,000 miles a year on it, then get the Mercedes.

Similarly, if you plan to go out and shoot a box of ammo a month through your .22, then just about any gun will work and hold up.  If you plan to shoot a brick a month and keep the gun for a while then you want a gun with better innards.  If you plan to shoot a brick a week, then you want a quality gun made from modern heat-treated steel and it will last for decades at this level.

Comparing the Henry to the 10/22 isn't fair... to the Henry.  The Ruger is, in my opinion, a far better gun at a lower price, because levers are more complicated to build than blowback semiautos.  There's no such thing as a free lunch, and the 9422 doesn't cost more because USRAC is greedy... it costs more because it costs more to manufacture (probably not as much more as the price spread indicates, but I bet the manufacturer margins are higher on the Henry than on the 9422 -- and there's nothing wrong with that).

Re the Stevens, the actions that are popular are not the Favorite/Crackshot, but instead the 44 1/2 action... made from much better material and a far stronger design.  The newer 'repro' Favorites made by Savage and others (Varner) since the 1970s are made from modern steel rather than cast iron and do hold up to usage and shooting, unlike the earlier models which are basically relegated to wall hanger status.  I think a better comparison might be between the Stevens 44 and the original Winchester Low Wall.  The two rifles were similar in cost but the Winchester was a better design and made with better materials... and today an original Low Wall will still be a strong tight action unlike the original Stevens 44 (that's why they came out with the 44 1/2).

It's not about cost... I am not a dollar snob.  One of my favorite models is the Winchester 67... certainly not a high-dollar deluxe .22.  But they shoot well, hold up well, and are made cleverly and inexpensively rather than cheaply.  Considering that you can usually pick one up in excellent condition for under $100 I think they're a real bargain.  I have two of 'em at this time, have refinished the stocks using Tru-Oil and touched up the bluing using BC Cold Blue, and that's it... and they work and shoot as well as they did when the left New Haven fifty years and lots of bricks of ammo ago.  I often grab one and a brick of ammo when I just want to go up into the woods and shoot, because there's something theraputic about loading/shooting/unloading the 67... and that long sight radius is easy on my eyes.

My point about the Henry is not to attack Henry owners.  Instead it's that I personally would rather pay less and get more (10/22, Taurus pump, CZ 452 Military) or pay more and get more (9422, 39, BL-22).  But guns are like girls, I guess, and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

If you are happy with your Henry, then more power to you.  I wish you only the best... and sincerely hope that you and I both live long enough and get to shoot often enough to wear out all of our rifles.

Offline gunnut69

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How Long will that lever last ?
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2004, 05:24:31 AM »
JohnCliff

A very well worded and thoughtful reply.  I am a gunsmith and have worked on a bunch of rifles.  I have come to believe there are few bargains in the world of firearms.  The old Winchester bolts are serious contenders for the greatest.  The 67's (I learned to shoot a rifle with one) are surely at the top of the list.  I've worked on the Ithaca variant of the Henry and while the action is interesting the poor quality of the materials used turned me off.  To be fair I've not worked on any Henrys but for the most part that's because they usually are returned to the factory.  The 9422's have few problems.. JohnCliff I truly enjoy your closing, may we all live so long and get to shoot enough to wear out our guns..
gunnut69--
The 2nd amendment to the constitution of the United States of America-
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

Offline jh45gun

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How Long will that lever last ?
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2004, 07:27:04 PM »
John thanks for the well thought out reply now I know were you are comming from. Since my Henry is A mag I am sure it will not get the use that a regular 22 will get so it will last me I am sure. I have talked to a guy who has a 22 mag Ithica that has shot thousands of rounds through it he lives in Canada and he has no problems with it. Yea the Henry is not all steel but the barrel and bolt are the rest of the cast parts hold the thing together not unlike a post 94 Winchester that got lots of complaints compared to the pre model just because of the cast reciever. I have one that was made in 64 bought it used 2 years ago still has the stamped lifter and it still works and shoots great. Is it a pre 64 no it is not but it works and shoots well for me just as my Henry does. I guess the biggest thing I have about negative Henry post is a lot of guys online climb on the bandwagon that may have never even shot one but will brag up their marlin or winchester 22 yet bash the Henry as they see others doing it. To me it is like I do not tell you what to drive or shoot so do not tell me the same. To me cost is not every thing as long as it shoots good and I look at it this way for the price of a 9422 in a lr or a mag I can just about buy 2 henrys which I know I will never wear out in my lifetime so That works for me. I do know my Henry will shoot .5 inch 5 shot groups at 50 yards I can live with that all day long!    And Like you said beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Jim
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.