Author Topic: Former nazzi SS commander believed found living in Minn.  (Read 1304 times)

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Offline powderman

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Former nazzi SS commander believed found living in Minn.
« on: June 15, 2013, 03:59:27 AM »
http://www.whas11.com/news/Alleged-Nazi-SS-commander-found-living-in-Minnesota-211638541.html

Alleged Nazi SS commander found living in Minnesota .
In this May 22, 1990 photo, Michael Karkoc, photographed in Lauderdale, Minn. Karkoc was a top commander whose Nazi SS-led unit is blamed for burning villages filled with women and children and who lied to American immigration officials to get into the United States. He has been living in Minnesota since shortly after World War II, according to evidence uncovered by The Associated Press. (Chris Polydoroff/AP Photo)
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Posted on June 14, 2013 at 8:43 PM

(ABC News) -- Polish prosecutors have pledged to help U.S. investigators bring to justice a 94-year-old man living in Minnesota, who is accused of being a former commander of a Nazi SS unit responsible for killing scores of women and children during World War II.

A lengthy investigation across six countries led the Associated Press to discover Michael Karkoc living quietly in Minneapolis. Karkoc is accused of leading the SS-led Ukrainian Self Defense Legion, an organization whose members massacred civilians and resistance fighters throughout Ukraine and Poland and helped suppress the Warsaw Uprising.

Members of the legion were barred from entering the U.S. after the war. Documents obtained by the AP indicate that when emigrating to the U.S. in 1949, Karkoc lied about his role in the war, telling American officials he spent those years working for his father and then in a labor camp.

Polish officials pledged today to help with any investigation, but said it was too early to begin taking steps towards extradition.

"Polish prosecutors will help American investigators, there's no doubt," said a Polish embassy official. who declined to be identified because he was not authorized to speak. "Help will be provided to take steps to examine the evidence. Based on the evidence a decision on extradition will be made."

Most of the crimes affiliated with Karkoc's group occurred in Poland, including the 1944 directive to "liquidate all the residents" of the village of Chlaniow, according to documents from a Soviet-era investigation, discovered by the AP.

Both Poland and Germany may each ultimately seek to prosecute Karkoc in their own countries.

Under German law, former Nazis with "command responsibility" can be charged with war crimes.

The Department of Justice, which handles such cases in the U.S., would not comment on an open investigation, but has used lies found in immigration papers to deport suspected war criminals in the past.

"While we do not confirm or deny the existence of specific investigations, I can say as a general matter that the Department of Justice continues to pursue all credible allegations of participation in World War II Nazi crimes by U.S. citizens and residents," spokesman Michael Passman told ABC News.com in an email.

Calls made to Karkoc's home were not answered.

Despite keeping his alleged role in the war a secret in the United States, Karkoc published a memoir in Ukraine in 1995, outlining his role in organizing and leading the Ukrainian Self Defense Legion in collaboration with the Nazis.

A British pharmacist who is an amateur historian researching the group came across the book and reached out to the AP for help tracking down Karkoc in the U.S.

Karkoc emigrated to the U.S. in 1949 with two sons after the death of his first wife. He settled in a Ukrainian neighborhood where he worked as a carpenter, remarried and had four more children, according to the AP.

"It doesn't come as a surprise," said Aaron Breitbart, a senior researcher at the Simon Weisenthal Foundation. "It is estimated that between 3,000 and 10,000 people entered the U.S. with dirty wartime pasts, who should not have been allowed in."

Breitbart indicated that Karkoc will likely outlive the judicial process.

The U.S. doesn't try these war criminals, but instead seeks to denaturalize and deport them. In some cases, foreign countries will ask for the suspect to be extradited.

In either case, the process is incredibly lengthy and can take years in court.

"It can take years and years by time courts say he can be deported," said Breitbart. "A good defense lawyer will drag it out until the guy gets biological amnesty. That is, until he dies."

Despite such suspects' advanced age, Breitbart said it remains important for governments to go after them. "People need to know if you participate in a heinous crime, there is always someone looking for you."

 Karkoc's case is reminiscent of that of John Demjanjuk, a Ukrainian who emigrated to Ohio after the war. Demjanjuk was accused of collaborating with the Nazis and overseeing the deaths of more than 20,000 Jews at several concentration camps including Sobibor.

After years of accusations, research, and court proceedings, Demjanjuk was finally deported to Germany in 2009. In 2011, the 91-year-old was found guilty of being an accessory to murder and sentenced to five years. He died the following year.
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Offline BBF

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Re: Former nazzi SS commander believed found living in Minn.
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2013, 05:17:51 AM »
He's 94, good for him.
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Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Former nazzi SS commander believed found living in Minn.
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2013, 05:25:47 AM »
Quote
Breitbart indicated that Karkoc will likely outlive the judicial process.

Prolly so but the process needs to take place anyway!
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Offline cooter74

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Re: Former nazzi SS commander believed found living in Minn.
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2013, 11:55:01 PM »
Prolly so but the process needs to take place anyway!

Why the guy is 94 years old. just leave him the hell along!

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Former nazzi SS commander believed found living in Minn.
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2013, 02:11:06 AM »
Prolly so but the process needs to take place anyway!

Why the guy is 94 years old. just leave him the hell along!

Really? Tell that to the six million or so that his team exterminated! Ever see people marched into ditches and shot like dogs, hell dogs get treated better here!
 
He lied and snuck here after his third reich got their asses whipped by men like my father and the rest of the great generation!  He's been living fat while some of them are still planted in Europe!
 
 
If you murder there is no time limit on prosecution! What his team did is worse than murder! I say convict him and remind the world what kind of animals they were! lest we forget! Seems some of us have already!
 
Ever walk thru the graves of Service men in Normandy! or even seen pictures.
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Offline Old Fart

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Re: Former nazzi SS commander believed found living in Minn.
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2013, 02:57:29 AM »
I'm with you Oldshooter.
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Offline Dee

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Re: Former nazzi SS commander believed found living in Minn.
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2013, 03:18:00 AM »
Why anyone is worried about a 94 year old man doing what he was ORDERED to do, in the military, and happened 70 years ago, in another country is beyond me. It was truly sad that some 6 million Jews died before and during WWII. HOWEVER! 53 million AMERICANS have died since 1973, and it's seldom ever mentioned. I guess since it's LEGAL to kill unborn, AND BORN, babies that's makes it all right. These 70 year old WAR CAUSUALTIES ARE DEAD. These babies are dying by the thousands, DAILY. Go figure.
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Offline Mike in Virginia

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Re: Former nazzi SS commander believed found living in Minn.
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2013, 04:54:02 AM »
Dee, I figured you'd have a different viewpoint.  I appreciate your compassion though.  Me, just because he escaped arrest then, doesn't mean he is immune now.  He got away with it for a long time.  If I had been born into German society and was made a soldier, I would have chosen to be shot rather than to murder the masses.  When you were in uniform, you did what you were told, like I did, but I think the both of us would have baulked on an immoral order. 
 
Depending on what can be proven that he actually did, I say give him what he would have gotten if he'd been caught when he did it. 
 
That said, he may have repented and be a saved Christian now.  Which we don't know.
 
You make a good point about the killing of children since that time. 

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Former nazzi SS commander believed found living in Minn.
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2013, 05:09:33 AM »
He lied and snuck here after his third reich got their asses whipped by men like my father and the rest of the great generation! 
The guy was Ukranian and as I understand, was in some kind of Ukranian unit - one of the Ostlegionen? - so it's a stretch to say it was his Third Reich.
Quote
He's been living fat while some of them are still planted in Europe!
So? How many Weremacht (or Ostlegionen) veterans would you have liked to see killed, post war?

Quote
If you murder there is no time limit on prosecution! What his team did is worse than murder! I say convict him and remind the world what kind of animals they were! lest we forget! Seems some of us have already!
Murder?
 
Quote
Ever walk thru the graves of Service men in Normandy! or even seen pictures.
Seen the pictures; only part of France I've been to was Nice (and it was nice).
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Offline m-g Willy

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Re: Former nazzi SS commander believed found living in Minn.
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2013, 05:15:33 AM »
Why anyone is worried about a 94 year old man doing what he was ORDERED to do, .

He was ordered to do?
If you were ordered by a ranking officer ,would you do it?
 
 

Offline magooch

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Re: Former nazzi SS commander believed found living in Minn.
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2013, 05:17:34 AM »
This kind of thing would never happen if this country didn't have this insane immigration idiocy going on.  At some point we have to understand that the U.S.A. cannot be the dumping ground for the whole world.  It should have been stopped a long time ago, but it still isn't too late if we would combine it with getting rid of all the illegals.
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Offline Hairy Chest

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Re: Former nazzi SS commander believed found living in Minn.
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2013, 06:26:39 AM »
If it wasn't for Hitler, the Jewish Marxists would have taken over Germany.  Hitler ended their plans.   :D
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Re: Former nazzi SS commander believed found living in Minn.
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2013, 06:31:51 AM »
The Wiesenthalers were about to run out of work, they must be elated.
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Offline dukkillr

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Re: Former nazzi SS commander believed found living in Minn.
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2013, 07:01:45 AM »
The Wiesenthalers were about to run out of work, they must be elated.
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Umm yeah...they always roll out holocaust stuff when the Zionist are getting ready to attack somebody or annex another chunk of land.
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Secondly, the jews themselves have downgraded that 6 million figure, which is a biblical number of theirs; even saying that if many jews remained in German-Euro cities fire bombed (I believe 66 cities firebombed and destroyed/culturally destroyed) their death toll could have been higher, especially since the Ally's war strategy was also against German civilians, with Churchill opining for vast chemical warfare to eliminate his German rivals. once and for all.
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
 
Hairy,,,as you know International Jewry declared world war against the Germans in 1933, pledged to destroy Germany, much to the disagreement of indigenous jews living in Germany..  Even Zionist in a moment of obtuse lucidity acknowledge Hitler primarily gave them Palestine.....one reason they refused the Nazi deportation program in the first place.
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Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Former nazzi SS commander believed found living in Minn.
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2013, 10:39:45 AM »
Quote
Despite keeping his alleged role in the war a secret in the United States, Karkoc published a memoir in Ukraine in 1995, outlining his role in organizing and leading the Ukrainian Self Defense Legion in collaboration with the Nazis.

Following orders , REALLY! That's third reich to me.  And who in hell is for Abortion?  ::)
 
I hear winy complaints all the time about how japs were interred during the war. Maybe that was overkill.  They werent herded into a barn stripped naked , their possesions stolen then gased. Those "awfull jewish mongrels", many of whom thought they were Germans right up until they were evicted beaten and thrown into a ghetto, then exterminated. 
 
Any of you Nazi sympathizers just keep appreciating what the old soldiers did( you know the ones that died on Omaha beach and Anzio) so you can have memory lapse. I bet you even thank Vets for serving. I know a few veterans(fought in the Pacific) today that wont drive a jap vehicle cause they remember how AmericanPOWs were treated during that war. Americans have short memories these days. 
 
As far as killing old german soldiers and Nazi collaborators, I dont care what is done to them, but they need to be found and tried if they committed crimes and hid here for 60 years, while American bodies lay rotting in European graves. Ever seen video(taken by germans) of jews herded into ditches and shot in the back? What in hell do you call it? Yes murder!
 
Soldiers that followed orders didn't commit crimes, but claiming to just have followed orders doesn't get you off the hook, if you did. Following orders doesn't keep you on a list of animals that need to be found. and 94 years dont wash that dirt away!
 
I dont feel sorry for that old man! I feel bad for his family who may not even know , or didn't, what he was. I do feel bad for the millions  who were exterminated by Hitler and his henchmen, and most of all the American dead in Europe.
Quote
I would surmise that the U.S. Army (again, including the Army Air Corps) probably lost about 120,000+ men in Europe during World War Two.



 
“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

Offline Dee

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Re: Former nazzi SS commander believed found living in Minn.
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2013, 12:38:02 PM »
Why anyone is worried about a 94 year old man doing what he was ORDERED to do, .

He was ordered to do?
If you were ordered by a ranking officer ,would you do it?

Do you mean like the ORDER all the good soldiers (my youngest included) that were ORDERED to attack Iraq, and KILL THEM, when they had done NOTHING to any of us. Is that the kind of ORDER you mean? Our guys (my youngest included TWO TOURS) were ORDERED to kill Iraqis. I guess that's ok then, cause that was US, and we NEVER do anything wrong. Hey! Our guys were also ORDERED to kill VC. That was ok too, because they were ORDERED, and hey. That's just US being right all the time. Come on. ::)
 
 

To MIV. I HAVE refused orders that were ILLEGAL, and IMMORAL, and I paid for them. As to being shot before I would have done either. Never came up.
 
 

I'm a helluva lot more interested in getting the people in D.C. that left some damn good men OF OURS, in Benghazi out to dry than a 94 year old Nazi from a 70 year old war.
 
 

Here's another bit of RIGHTEOUS HISTORY for ya. Did you know that Hitler OFFERED to send all the Jews to US, and OUR PRESIDENT REFUSED TO TAKE THEM?
Sorry guys, I don't give two hoots what a 94 year old man did 70 years ago, in another country. We need to clean our own damn mess up before we start (or should I say continue) judging some one we don't even know yet, if it's true.
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Offline Mike in Virginia

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Re: Former nazzi SS commander believed found living in Minn.
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2013, 02:00:15 PM »
Dee, I don't know enough about the story to know if he's guilty of war crimes or not.  And I agree that a non-threatening 94 year old is of little importance to anyone with all the other stuff going on that is desperately in need of attention and correction.  BUT, since it's come up, since it is an actual issue, I think it ought to be addressed. 
You were on the street as long as I, but your experience was much deeper.  Mine was all highway work, yours was serious down and dirty stuff.  I respect that a lot.  BUT, if the old guy murdered Jews, or assisted in that, then he needs to answer for it.  Even though he wouldn't live long enough to go through all the red tape to get him executed, he ought to be put away and the process continue until he dies one way or the other. 
 
I mean to say that time and age are not factors in such cases.  Lots of us alive now had relatives who served fighting against the regime that did what the old guy might have done.  If it can be proven he did, there's no special circumstance for him because he and his crimes are old.  Old ain't got nothing to do with it.  For my father's sake who served in the 40's, I'd like to think his enemies would come to justice.  My dad's dead, but this old fellow got to live 50 years longer.  If a person is a criminal and he is alive, he is in need of arrest and punishment.     

Offline Dee

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Re: Former nazzi SS commander believed found living in Minn.
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2013, 02:24:28 PM »
If I come off against prosecuting this guy, then I'm misunderstood. I don't care what they do to this clown. He is, or is not, what ever they say he is.
As far as war vets. Hey, my oldest was a 3rd Bat Ranger, and my youngest was a Sgt. in the 82nd Airborne. My step son was a Marine, when they could find him.
WWII. Got that covered too. I have an 88 year old uncle that our state representatives say has more Bronze Stars than any other living WWII vet living in Texas. He has 7 Bronze Stars, and two Purple hearts. He was on several invasions of the Philippines.
 
My 1st cousin had three helicopters shot out from under him as a Marine in Vietnam, and he pays for that every day of his life health wise. My whole family has served this country, and I have probably done less than any of them, but I'm payin for what little I did physically.
It's just that I see folks get all worked up over something that is basically over, when we have so much that's wrong with this country that needs fixen. They can box this 94 year old clown up, and send him to Poland for all I care.
I'm concerned about MY country, and OUR troops, and the poor choices the American voters continue to make come election time. I know this is just a discussion, and this is just my opinion.
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Offline m-g Willy

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Re: Former nazzi SS commander believed found living in Minn.
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2013, 03:54:51 PM »

 

 

I'm a helluva lot more interested in getting the people in D.C. that left some damn good men OF OURS, in Benghazi out to dry than a 94 year old Nazi from a 70 year old war.
 
 
[/quote]

So you are willing to let someone walk away with murder because there is a more recent crime to worry about ?
Maybe just sweep Benghazi under the rug since it happened in the past, and worry about nailing the Boston bomber's ass? 

Offline m-g Willy

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Re: Former nazzi SS commander believed found living in Minn.
« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2013, 03:57:06 PM »

 
Do you mean like the ORDER all the good soldiers (my youngest included) that were ORDERED to attack Iraq, and KILL THEM, when they had done NOTHING to any of us. Is that the kind of ORDER you mean?
 
 

 

 


 
Big difference between going to war and murdering someone.
Do you consider your son a murderer?

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Former nazzi SS commander believed found living in Minn.
« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2013, 04:18:32 PM »
I aint casting dispersians on anyone here, or their families patriotism. My original post was that the process needs to be carried out . They didn't go after him because "he might be a war crimminal" they had, in thier minds "proof" so it needs  to run its course.  NOT to do so sullies the memory of all those that fought in that conflict, whether they lived or died and its disrespectful in my opinion. This country treats its vets horribly, and it turns my stomach.
 
This country has made plenty mistakes but that war was not one of them. To not prosecute that old man is like not prosecuting osamma bin laden if he had remained hidden for 50 years and finally showed up in an ice cream shop in Hollywood.
 
WW II vets dont need me to defend them but most are gone now and should at least be respected for their sacrifices. I have listened to them tell about liberating the concentration camps and  storming the Beaches at Normandy. I'm thinking they might not think "this is no big deal".
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Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Former nazzi SS commander believed found living in Minn.
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2013, 04:48:12 PM »
To not prosecute that old man is like not prosecuting osamma bin laden if he had remained hidden for 50 years and finally showed up in an ice cream shop in Hollywood.
Now, that's just plain nuts. Osama planned & executed an attack on the US, initiating a 'war' and killing 3000 or so in peacetime. The 94 y/o Ukrainian got swept up into a war when his country was invaded by the Germans, and he cast his lot with them rather than with Stalin (I'm surmising somethings, probably correctly)
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Former nazzi SS commander believed found living in Minn.
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2013, 05:05:52 PM »
I'm willing to bet that your old ukranian was responsible for killing a lot of innocent jews in the ukraine. What part of organizing and leading the Ukrainian Self Defense Legion in collaboration with the Nazis didnt you understand?
 
Surmise that. They aint going after this guy because he is a conscript potato peeler and just got swept up in the craziness. Give me a break. You defending the guy is just plain nuts as far as I'm concerned.  Why not just let justice take its course. if he was just caught up and is innocent it will prolly come out! I dont believe they are persecuting an innocent, but probably prosecuting a criminal. and I dont think he is gonna be lynched either.  ::)
 
You can have the last word here cause, I have said all that I am gonna.
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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

Offline cooter74

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Re: Former nazzi SS commander believed found living in Minn.
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2013, 12:28:37 AM »
But it is OK that the Jews murdered out sailors on board the USS LIBERITY!

Offline Conan The Librarian

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Re: Former nazzi SS commander believed found living in Minn.
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2013, 12:56:09 AM »
It does make me wonder what the investigations are, and how much they cost. At this point, any nazi war criminal is going to be about 90 or older. What is the real value of these investigations?




Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Former nazzi SS commander believed found living in Minn.
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2013, 01:51:23 AM »
But it is OK that the Jews murdered out sailors on board the USS LIBERITY!
said who? where? When?



Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline Dee

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Re: Former nazzi SS commander believed found living in Minn.
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2013, 02:01:01 AM »

 
Do you mean like the ORDER all the good soldiers (my youngest included) that were ORDERED to attack Iraq, and KILL THEM, when they had done NOTHING to any of us. Is that the kind of ORDER you mean?
 
 

 

 


 
Big difference between going to war and murdering someone.
Do you consider your son a murderer?

I'm gonna answer "both" your posts where you've taken excerpts of my "one" post, with this post. You know perfectly well what I mean, and anyone with half a brain knows what I mean. And no, I don't consider our troops (including my son) murderers. I consider them soldiers that were misused to propagate political revenge in Iraq. They were also "misused" in Vietnam. Everyone wants to be right, and I'm giving my opinion. Breaking my post down like you've done, and some other people like to do, is not gonna help you "win" the argument. I said what I said, within the FULL CONTEXT of my original post, and that's how I see it, but this 94 year old bugger that's got you all worked up, did not commit this "war crime" (if he even did it) by himself.
While trying to make you point you have ignored the fact that Hitler could not have done what he done had not the German SOLDIERS, followed ORDERS. Are they all murderers in your eyes, for following ORDERS?
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Former nazzi SS commander believed found living in Minn.
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2013, 04:05:00 AM »
... You know perfectly well what I mean, and anyone with half a brain knows what I mean. And no, I don't consider our troops (including my son) murderers. I consider them soldiers that were misused to propagate political revenge in Iraq. They were also "misused" in Vietnam. Everyone wants to be right, and I'm giving my opinion. Breaking my post down like you've done, and some other people like to do, is not gonna help you "win" the argument. I said what I said, within the FULL CONTEXT of my original post, and that's how I see it, but this 94 year old bugger that's got you all worked up, did not commit this "war crime" (if he even did it) by himself.
While trying to make you point you have ignored the fact that Hitler could not have done what he done had not the German SOLDIERS, followed ORDERS. Are they all murderers in your eyes, for following ORDERS?
Fine poast!
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline Hairy Chest

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Re: Former nazzi SS commander believed found living in Minn.
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2013, 07:11:05 AM »
But it is OK that the Jews murdered out sailors on board the USS LIBERITY!

What about the genocide of 7 million Ukrainians before Hitler?  The genocide was run by Jew Kaganovich.  It's no wonder the Ukrainians joined the Nazi's.
Study after study has shown how dangerous distracted driving is yet people continue to talk on their cell phones while driving. Driving in the U.S. requires your full attention. Many states and countries have made it illegal to use a cell phone while operating a motor vehicle and the federal government should follow their lead. Banning the use of cell phones while driving would have the added benefit of making the no-texting law enforceable.