Shooting Advice for new SBH Hunter owner

[Mawgie]

Folks -

I am the new owner of a SBH Bisley Hunter in .44 Magnum.  This is my first handgun.  I would like some advice to improve my marksmanship.
Here's the background:

1) My range: 100 yard outdoor range. Target set at 25 yards. Shooting seated with elbows rested on the bench using a shooting tripod; an el cheapo, plastic, but relatively sturdy.  

2) Sights: Factory iron sights.

3) Load: 24.0 grains of H110 w/ a CCI Magnum Pistol Primer and a 240 XTP bullet.  This is right out of the Lyman loading manual.

4) I am shooting 2, 3 and 4 shot groups, varying the cylinders being shot, and in general trying to concentrate and take my time.

5) Grip: I am left handed, size L-XL hands (good-sized to big, but not real meathooks) and seem most comfortable taking a deep grip with the left hand so than the trigger meets my finger at the midpoint of the first metatarsal joint (the midpoint of my finger tip).  My left pinky is at the very bottom of the grip, with a slight overhang.  I add the right hand for the two hand grip, and  specifically hold my left middle finger tight to the grip, so as to avoid the nasty knuckle banging that awaits the inattentive.

Results.  I have shot the gun 4 times, firing an average of 50 rounds each session.  Results have been much less than awe inspiring.  My best four shot groups are: two shots touching; a third shot 3" from the 2 shot group; with a flyer 8"  away from the two shot group.

Between sessions, I have cleaned the gun barrel and cylinder carefully as follows: Birchwood Casey "GunScrubber"; two careful passes with a bore brush; then RemOil-ed patches until clean; toothbrush the rest of the gun; then use a Lead Cloth to get it looking good again.

My concerns are as follows:

1) Rear sight :  it seems awfully wide.  I am centering the front blade in the rear sight, but there is plenty of daylight on either side of it when I do.  However, the gun writers are routinely shooting my gun to MOA at 25 yards, with the same iron sights I bought.

2) Something loose?  I don't think so.  I have gone over the gun carefully, and the only thing loose has been the two screws holding the trigger guard to the gun.

I have done the Poor Boy Trigger Job, and am pleased wioth the gun's trigger pull.  I am trying to repeat my hold, sighting, etc. each shot.  


Any input would be most appreciated.

Thanks- Mawgie

[Buckskinner]

Mawgie,
I'm new to this board but an old hand with the Ruger single action. To me it sounds as though you are approaching the process in a well thought out manner and should soon progress in your skills. If I have learned anything about shooting open sighted handguns, I'll try to pass along some of what I have learned.

First, it is very important to shoot with the sights shaded when conducting any kind of accuracy or performance testing. The direction that any light comes from can make a substantial difference to group size and location, so it must be factored in. The rear sights on Ruger handguns can often come with a certain amount of side to side playthat can shift bullet impact especially at longer ranges, so should be looked at right off and shimmed if need be. An aluminum pop can provides an excellent source of material for that purpose, but the rear sight needs to be removed and the shim fitted so as not show. You may need to use more than one layer of shim material depending on the amount of play being taken up. Then check for rear sight function after re-installing to be certain that the rear sight is free to move up and down without sticking or binding.

When shooting for accuracy, I have found that sitting on the ground, leaning back on a "home made" back board, adjustable for recline works better than a bench rest. I hold the handgun in a normal shooting grip and place my hands between my kness with my feet spread to provide an effortless "craddle" to rest the gun hands. Just be careful when shooting this way, not to allow the cylinder gap to be positioned so that escaping gasses can get to your knees because it is not only painfull when that happens, it can cut through your pants and into your skin! If you try this method, dry fire a few times at a distant target to get the "feel" for how to make it work for you and I think that you will like shooting this way for tests and such.

Since you do your own trigger work, I would suggest that if you have not already done so, you should experiment with a trigger stop device and make certain that the trigger breaks clean and crisp and stops just at the instant that it lets go of the hammer. Trigger pull weight is subjective, but I like mine in the range of 2-21/2 pounds with stop.

You may want to touch-up your sights before shooting, using a black sharpie marker to dull any reflective surfaces as that will help you obtain a cleaner sight picture. It isn't perfect, but is effective.

I like to use a generous sized target with a black six inch bull centered and shoot at 50 yards for sight-in and first stage accuracy work. That way any mistakes or problems that I may be having are more pronounced and easier to read and fix. I sight-in 3 inches high at 50 yards with all of my center fire magnum handguns including the .357, but especially with the .41 and .44 magnums. For me, that setting takes best advantage of the cartridge.

I hope that you enjoy your Bisley, they fine handguns.

[Mawgie]

Thanks for the input.
Those are helpful ideas.

I did some dry fire exercises when I got home, and notice that without a nearly perfect grip and concentration I tend to torque the gun with my trigger finger pull.  In my case, as a leftie, I tend to move the point of aim right and down.

This would seem to diagnose a problem from my first shooting session.  I had cranked the sight all the way to the max for left windage adjustment, and still shot low and right.  Of course, it was because I was badly pushing my point of aim off with my trigger finger.

I knew it had to be my form, and recentered the rear sight after the first session.  I am still pulling to the right a little on occasional shots, but not nearly as bad.

I have two questions.  First, I don't want to start swapping parts when I am obviously in need of lots more careful practice, but the Bowen rear sight seems like an excellent upgrade for reasonable money. Too early?

Second, are my loads too much for early on as I am trying to gain confidence and accuracy?  I am not perfect, but do seem to be able to control any flinching with good concentration.  Of course, in each 50 round session I have whacked my strongside middle finger knuckle pretty good a couple of times, and that leaves me a little "flinchy" for a shot or two afterward.

Fortunately, the only blood has come from the ejector rod housing, which is machined to a sharp edge. When I got a finger on that edge, then smartly depressed the rod I got a nice "Ruger paper cut".

FYI. My load is 24.0 grains of H110, CCI Magnunm Pistol priomer and 240 grain Hornady XTP.

Thanks for your help - Mawgie

[Buckskinner]

Mawgie,
First of all, I'm glad to be of service. I should mention a few things about my background so that you know enough about me to make good evaluations concerning any advice that I offer..I am a former LEO of 13 years. During that time I became a certified weapons instructor both in Idaho and Washington States. I was certified in swat, swat sniper and lethal threat management for police. I have a considerable amount of handgun shooting experience and hunt with handguns. I've been doing my own triggers and other modifications to my handguns and those of many others for the better part of 35 years. I've shot competitively and for pleasure. I specialize in two diciplines; gunfighting and long range precision handgun shooting.

Your problem with sight disturbance during firing is very likely the result of not separating your trigger finger's job from the remaining fingers and hand while shooting. The trigger finger has but one responsibility, squeeze the trigger straight back. The remaining didgets and hand parts of the shooting hand are to provide a solid platform so that the trigger finger can work independently to perform its only work, squeezing the trigger. The support hand is to help support the weight of the gun, gun hand and shooting arm and to provide insurance of a proper grip by qrapping the offhand fingers securely around the shooting hand to support the shot being fired from as solid a rest as is possible.

I began my shooting of large caliber handguns using a Ruger SBH in the same caliber that you are using and shot nothing but magnum loads. Is that the right thing to do? I don't know that it is for everyone, but it was for me and it sounds as though it is for you as well. The mind is what delivers the shot accurately, the body merely performs the actions demanded by the mind. Shooting is a martial art and must be approached as such.

Your load sounds fine to me. There is no disgrace in backing off if it becomes apparent that at top power levels, you cannot overcome some basic troubles. I think that you should continue on with what you are doing and in the manner that you are doing it. You might wish to try different methods of gripping the handgun in order to provide the trigger finger optimum position but without scarifice to the grip itself.

[Iowegan]

Here's some techniques I've taught for many years and they work.

Skip loading: Have your observer load your revolver with 1 to 4 live cartridges and the rest empty cases, in no specific order and unknown to you. Shoot the gun while your observer carefully watches the muzzle. When you "click" on a dead round, chances are the muzzle will do a nose dive or jerk to one side. When a live round is fired, neither you or the observer can see if you jerked or anticipated recoil. I use this technique when I haven't been to the range for a while. It really lets you know what you are doing wrong.

Bench shooting tips: After each shot, lay the gun down on the bench for a few seconds, then pick it up and position it properly in your front paws. You are much more likely to maintain the same hold if you totally let go of the gun than you are if you shoot repeated shots. The gun will reposition itself in your hands when it recoils and you will think you are still holding it the same as the last shot. It's a fact that a gun will shoot to a different point if your "hold" is different. The more the gun recoils, the more your grip will change.

Sandbag hold: If any part of the gun touches the bench or a sandbag, the recoil will send the muzzle off target. Position the sandbag under your forearms about 6" back from your wrists. Hold your right arm straight, with your chin on your right bicep. Wrap the fingers of your left hand over your right hand. Moderately push forward with the right hand and pull to the rear with your left hand. (lefties reverse hands) This will create a very stable triangle hold that will allow recoil to be dissipated by your body, not the sandbag or bench. If you adjust your sights, they will be dead on when you shoot from a standing position.

Grip: Hold the gun firmly but not a “death grip” or a “wimp grip’. Don’t try to prevent recoil or anticipate recoil by pulling the muzzle down just before you fire. Let the gun move where it wants when it recoils. Have your observer watch the gun recoil. It should move straight back and straight up. If the gun moves at an angle during recoil, it means you’re not gripping it correctly. The barrel’s rifling will cause the gun to torque if your grip is too weak.

Sighting: A six o’clock hold on a small bullseye is best. The larger the bull, the worse the sight picture and the more opportunities for drift. A “center hold” on the target also encourages drift. I use a 1” black bull on white paper at 25 yds, no other rings.

Trigger and hand control: Place the center of your fingerprint on the trigger. Don’t insert too much finger or you’ll find the gun shooting left (for right handed shooters). Practice dry firing and note muzzle movement when the hammer drops. All shooters tend to squeeze the grip harder at the moment of sear release. This is called palming and will result in hand movement, thus misdirected shots. Ideally, you want to maintain the same holding pressure throughout the firing cycle.

Lock time: Lock time is the time in mili seconds (.001 seconds) for the primer to fire once the sear releases. Single action revolvers are typically more difficult to master (marksmanship) than DA revolvers or semi-autos because they have a much longer lock time. A S&W K frame is about 39 ms where a Ruger BH is about 75 ms. If your main spring is lighter than the factory spring, the lock time will be even more. You would be amazed at how much your hand can move in 75 ms.

Try these techniques, they really work and might just get those groups to shrink.

[Florida Jim]

Mawgie;
Your loads are near max, While fine for hunting I'd go with a lighter load for pratice. Heavy loads can induce "Flinching"
Try 44 spl style loads. about 7.5 grains of Unique with a 240 SWC. This is a fun load to shoot, you can shoot it all day. It's also cheaper.

[palgeno]

Many people find that it is helpful to have a "training gun"----- using a .22 revolver as close in configuration and trigger feel as possible to your magnum gun will help to learn proper shooting techniques. It is very common even for experienced shooters to develop a flinch and other bad habits with long sessions of magnum loads.( ask me how I know :shock: ) The use of softball loads in the magnum gun is another option but .22 ammo is cheap and everyone NEEDS another gun anyway-----Ruger will soon have a .22 Bisley Hunter on the market. I know I won't be able to resist one of those and I suspect that I will be standing in line behind lots of guys in order to get one . If  you go the training gun route, a good range session would be 80% with the .22  and finish with a small number of full house hunting loads in the .44. Using an observer as described previously in this thread is another valuable tool.  Using a .22 is fun,cheap, and saves physical wear and tear. And you NEED another gun!!!  :-)     pg

[Mawgie]

WOW!

Thanks, guys.  I was really begining to get down on myself, but now believe there is hope.

I'm undecided about whether to load down or not, but for now think I will stick in the range of what I am loading, though possibly move down to 200 XTPs when the current box of 100 runs out.

I also think that 60-75 rounds of near full power loads in each session for an inexperienced handgunner is probably not such a great idea. In the last session I started loading the gun with only two rounds, then after shooting the two I would take my ears off (had the range to myself), relax, and walk downrange to inspect the damage, tape it up, and return to the bench.

At this point, I know I am pulling my shots down and right with my trigger finger; and will work on that.  Further, I need to take the time to put the gun down, then pick it up and "reset" my grip after each shot.  I am very slowly developing a sense for when it feels right; balanced in my hand, gripped firmly but not like a vice and not like a dishrag; and I don't worry about banging my knuckle when I hold it right.

I also added plugs inside my muffs to quiet things down a bit.
I won't be able to get to the range until a week from Friday, and plan to dry fire practice and work on my grip and rest between now and then.

Thanks again for all your help.  This is humbling, but I don't have much quit in me!!

-Mawgie

[Glanceblamm]

Mawgie

I remember the early days and thought that all handguns were junk. The
Turning point for myself was eye focus. When I learned to keep the short
Radius of the front & back sights in sharp focus, and let the target blurr, my scores went way up & my group size way down.

This might sound unreasonable but even the small objects will have a large center at extended ranges when you align your sights on them.

[Catfish]

I bought my SBH in 1966 and it came with a far better trigger than anything you can get today. I agree with everthing that has been said so far, but would like to give you 2 points that I think are real important, not that it`s not all important. I do alot of my shooting with .44 mas. with 240 grn. cast bullerts pushed with 6 grns. of Bullseye and a Win. primer, make sure you alway use mag. primers when putting small amounts of powder in larger cases. These loads don`t have much recoil so you don`t get tired as fast and they are alot cheaper to load so you can shoot alot more for the same money, and practice is every thing with a handgun. 2, Which has already been mentioned, DO NOT  get your trigger finger to far into the trigger. As stated it will cause you to pull off the target every time. I might also add that shooting with both eyes open is the best way to shoot a handgun. I would also do alot of shooting off handed with a 2 hand grip. Sounds like your heading down the right road, have fun!!