Author Topic: 223 or 357 in a handi for deer? (Read 2320 times)

rc51kid · « **on:** June 17, 2013, 04:18:25 PM »

I am thinking about giving deer hunting a try this season. I could use my 223 (AR15) or a nice 357 Mag 16.5" Handi i have. I am hand loading for the 357 so i can load it up preat hot if i need to. I dont have it reamed to Max so for now it is just Mag. Between these two wich would you rather use on deer in the southeast?

I could ream it to Max but i would need a reamer and brass. I could also buy another barrel (308 or 30-30) but i would rather not if i dont need to. Which do you think would be better for deer?

HWB13 · « **Reply #1 on:** June 17, 2013, 04:21:57 PM »

given just those two options 357 for sure. I know from hunting years ago (25) in NC that the 223 would be good enough, but I would go with the solid hitting power of your 357.

Ranger99 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 17, 2013, 04:25:30 PM »

no question. use the .357 mag.
i've never had a a problem with
my .357 not being enough.
use good bullets that will hold together,
not hollow point "self defense" rounds.
.223 will work if you head shoot and
can do it consistently. a body shot would be too iffy.
needless to say, the chosen round should
be a proven accurate load.
good luck

Dinny · « **Reply #3 on:** June 17, 2013, 04:30:32 PM »

Using a .223 should come with great consideration to the barrel twist. You will likely want to shoot heavy for caliber bullets. Forget about all of that and get your Mag reamed to Max and shoot it with Mags until you get new components. It will likely shoot better reamed than it does now, even shooting the shorter Mag cases.

Thanks, Dinny

Nate C · « **Reply #4 on:** June 17, 2013, 04:46:20 PM »

Either will work, although the 357 will work much better under nearly all conditions.

If the 223, then look for a properly constructed bullet - speer makes a 70 gr soft point, Nosler makes a heavy for caliber bonded bullet, barnes makes the tsx etc.

No one's asked yet - so I will: Which one do you shoot better at the ranges you expect to be hunting?

~~also If a less than ideal shot presents itself, do you have the patience to let it pass by and wait for a better one...~~

That came out rude which was not my intent. What I mean is - if you can pass on a less than ideal shot, and if you pick the bullet right, the 223 will work fine.

No offense intended, just some things to think about.

Nate

rc51kid · « **Reply #5 on:** June 17, 2013, 04:53:05 PM »

Anyone know where i can get the Max reamer and some brass?

thejanitor · « **Reply #6 on:** June 17, 2013, 04:58:57 PM »

Rent the reamer here from GBO ask Quickdtoo. It is in the stickies, I did our 4 barrels and it was pretty fast and not hard at all just follow the directions in the sticky.
Brass is on back order and should be made again pretty soon I would think. (only one supplier)
Good luck, thejanitor

Ranger99 · « **Reply #7 on:** June 17, 2013, 05:06:25 PM »

no disrespect for anyone intended,
but i'd try it out before you rechamber.
the deer i've taken with my jsp's
were smacked but good at 65 to 75 yards.
the damage was extensive enough that
i would have confidence enough that
the loading had enough soup for at
least 20+ more yards. i don't intend
to rechamber mine. if i need more soup,
i have other rifles with proven loads
to choose from.
then again, that is one's personal choice.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #8 on:** June 17, 2013, 05:27:52 PM »

Since this is your first deer hunt I would say the 357 as well for a couple reasons.\
1) the larger bullet has a better chance to knick somethng vital and until you understadn where the heart and lungs are in the 3D deer the larger bullet makes more sense.
2) I shot a deer with a SEMI auto 30-06. And shot 7 times before she fell. Adding all kinds of damage to a deer running at me that was not needed. Had I used my bolt action and shot here in the same spot, by the time I pulled down the rifle and cycled the bolt she would have fallen over. Instead the rifle reloaded its self and I kept shooting trying to knock her down.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** June 17, 2013, 05:59:40 PM »

Quote from: rc51kid on June 17, 2013, 04:53:05 PM

Anyone know where i can get the Max reamer and some brass?

If ya wanta rent the reamer, best get on the list (see sticky for instructions), there are 5 members waiting for it right now, by the time you get it reamed, Brass will be available, Remington has made a seasonal run every year for the last 8yrs or so.

Tim

jeepmann1948 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 18, 2013, 02:32:36 AM »

I would venture a guess that there are more 357 Max rifles owned by the fine members of GBO than anywhere else. It is a fine cartridge and serves well for deer hunting.My opinion is that it along with the 357 will kill a deer just as dead as anything. Ask my Grandkids and they will tell you it is great but the little 223 Superlite is just as good.Here in the Land of the Free (Texas) thousands of deer are killed cleanly and humanely with 223 rounds.Choose whichever you wish and become proficient.
Checkout my signature line for more info.
Thanks
George

8uck5nort · « **Reply #11 on:** June 18, 2013, 05:15:32 AM »

I have both. I vote for the 357 maggie/maxi for other reasons already stated. You will not regret it. I'll also add the 38 spcl to list of shootable cartridges in that rifle just for practice and cheap plinking.

reloaderman · « **Reply #12 on:** June 18, 2013, 05:32:53 AM »

Quote from: jeepmann1948 on June 18, 2013, 02:32:36 AM

I would venture a guess that there are more 357 Max rifles owned by the fine members of GBO than anywhere else. It is a fine cartridge and serves well for deer hunting.My opinion is that it along with the 357 will kill a deer just as dead as anything. Ask my Grandkids and they will tell you it is great but the little 223 Superlite is just as good.Here in the Land of the Free (Texas) thousands of deer are killed cleanly and humanely with 223 rounds.Choose whichever you wish and become proficient.
Checkout my signature line for more info.
Thanks
George

I agree,......... but, most of those deer were shot from a blind, where I've had to put down my cup of coffee before shooting. I had a rest and all the time needed to pick my shot.
If I were to hunt the woods ( like I used to back east ) I would opt for the bigger bullet of the 357 Mag or Maxi. Don't get me wrong, I love hunting in west Texas.

Doublebass73 · « **Reply #13 on:** June 18, 2013, 06:01:15 AM »

357 Mag all the way. The Mag is no slouch from a rifle with the correct loads. Check out what the Buffalo Bore Mag loads do from a rifle, you'll be impressed.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #14 on:** June 18, 2013, 06:13:29 AM »

Within 100yd. the 357 and certain placement, after than as heavy a 223 hunting bullet as the rifle will take and certain placement, 'cause within reason its all placement. Either way, Id want to to stay within 100yd., but that me.

rc51kid · « **Reply #15 on:** June 18, 2013, 06:45:27 AM »

Thanks guys. The 357 is sounding good. I have been using Unique in my 38spl. but i have some Win 296 for my 357 mag. I guess i could start playing with that. Right now i have a red dot that i love because it sits so low on the bore. But i guess i could look for a low power scope. Maybe i will play with the red dot and see how i do at 75-100 yards. Right now this is how i have it set up, and i LOVE it! Unfortunatly I cant use the can when hunting but it sure is fun plinking with 38spl.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #16 on:** June 18, 2013, 07:48:28 AM »

i would stay with the red-dot

petemi · « **Reply #17 on:** June 18, 2013, 08:16:56 AM »

Years ago I had a slob hunter on my place who sprayed bullets with an AR. For a while I banned the .223....and slob hunters. Now, the .223 is Okay, the slobs are not. With the proper bullet and shot placement they are fine. I would still vote for the .357. We only have three of them. They're all Maxis, and that is what I recommend you do. That turns your rifle into a "inside 200 yard" instead of a "inside a hundred yard rifle". The loads I shoot are the equivalent of .35 Remington and will probably kill efficiently at 300 yards. I haven't used them for deer yet. I have other rifles in line ahead of them. That doesn't mean I don't have confidence in the .357s. I do. It's just that my rifles wait in line by seniority and the Maxis are junior.

Shoot whichever rifle you choose and get confident with it. That's the biggest part. Put the bullet where you want it. Take your time. If the right shot doesn't come, pass on it. Perhaps it will tomorrow. It's a lot better than tracking wounded deer at dark thirty. It all boils down to George's signature line:

"it ain't what you shoot em with......................
it's where you hit em "

For close range work in low light hours, the red dots are wonderful. I gave them up only because scopes aided my impaired right eye better with their magnification.

Best of luck to you.

Pete

Spanky · « **Reply #18 on:** June 18, 2013, 09:31:15 AM »

Quote from: Ranger99 on June 17, 2013, 04:25:30 PM

no question. use the .357 mag.
i've never had a a problem with
my .357 not being enough.
use good bullets that will hold together,
not hollow point "self defense" rounds.
.223 will work if you head shoot and
can do it consistently. a body shot would be too iffy.
needless to say, the chosen round should
be a proven accurate load.
good luck

Telling someone who's never shot a deer to "head shoot" is pretty piss poor advice if you ask me.
A 223 with a 60gr. Nosler Partition will flatten deer all day long... WITH BODY SHOTS through the heart/lungs.

Spanky

Ranger99 · « **Reply #19 on:** June 18, 2013, 11:24:37 AM »

well, first off, i said in the first line to use the .357.
second, not every firearm will accurately shoot a 60 grain partition.
mine won't. lastly the last line said the chosen round should
be a proven accurate load.

petemi · « **Reply #20 on:** June 18, 2013, 11:50:33 AM »

+1 Spanky. If anyone disbelieves that, let them watch a deer try to feed with his jaw shot off. It ain't pretty. He showed up on my place that way and it took me two days to find him and put him down. That picture still pops into my mind at 3 a.m. when I'm trying to get back to sleep.

Pete

mechanic · « **Reply #21 on:** June 18, 2013, 12:03:10 PM »

I used a .223 this past season with a 60 gr. partition. A perfect heart shot delivered a dead deer. I had several walk by I passed on because of a less than perfect shot. The 357 will deliver more energy, but a good shot from either will kill. A bad shot from an elephant load will mean the deer will suffer long before it dies.

Ben

yukondog · « **Reply #22 on:** June 18, 2013, 12:14:35 PM »

For me, I would use the 357.

peak98 · « **Reply #23 on:** June 18, 2013, 12:53:03 PM »

Both calibers will kill deer without a problem. If I picked the AR, the bullet I would try would depend on the twist of the barrel. For a 1 in 7 twist, I'd try out the 70gr Barnes. For a 1 in 9 twist, I'd first look at the 60gr Partition. Their are others that will work just as well, but that's where I would start. I generally use 30cal rifles, along with a .35 and 444 on occasion. I also hunt in the Southeast and unless I'm hunting on a field, most of my shots are inside 100y. I suggest pick the caliber you want to hunt with this season, then PRACTICE a lot. Practice with a rest, free hand, right hand, left hand, prone....... I watched a 12 year old kill a nice buck at 256yds last year with a 223, his Daddy had him shooting all summer out to 300yds. He made a perfect shot and deer went ~60yds. I wouldn't worry much about what caliber to pick, just worry about becoming very proficient with one I picked.

rc51kid · « **Reply #24 on:** June 18, 2013, 12:59:36 PM »

Quote from: peak98 on June 18, 2013, 12:53:03 PM

Both calibers will kill deer without a problem. If I picked the AR, the bullet I would try would depend on the twist of the barrel. For a 1 in 7 twist, I'd try out the 70gr Barnes. For a 1 in 9 twist, I'd first look at the 60gr Partition. Their are others that will work just as well, but that's where I would start. I generally use 30cal rifles, along with a .35 and 444 on occasion. I also hunt in the Southeast and unless I'm hunting on a field, most of my shots are inside 100y. I suggest pick the caliber you want to hunt with this season, then PRACTICE a lot. Practice with a rest, free hand, right hand, left hand, prone....... I watched a 12 year old kill a nice buck at 256yds last year with a 223, his Daddy had him shooting all summer out to 300yds. He made a perfect shot and deer went ~60yds. I wouldn't worry much about what caliber to pick, just worry about becoming very proficient with one I picked.

One good thing about the 357 is that i can do some of the practice with 38spl. My 38spl are subsonic and super quiet with the can on. I can get some trigger time in areas that i might not normaly shoot like my parents back yard.

littledog · « **Reply #25 on:** June 18, 2013, 04:18:26 PM »

Tim when does Remington make there 357 max available I have picked up a few pieces of brass but I would like to get 200 or so thanks

quickdtoo · « **Reply #26 on:** June 18, 2013, 05:04:10 PM »

Usually in the summer/fall, IIRC, in time for huntin season.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,256057.msg1099508090.html#msg1099508090

YRUpunting? · « **Reply #27 on:** June 18, 2013, 05:17:50 PM »

Just my .02 cents but I'd be looking for 357 Maxi brass on gunbroker or post a WTB here and other forums. With the ammo/component shortage I just don't see Remington or any of the manufactures making any of the non-popular calibers until the demand for the popular stuff is met.

Sourdough · « **Reply #28 on:** June 18, 2013, 07:19:49 PM »

Go with the .357, and don't worry about souping the loads up to make them hotter, they are hot enough. Look for the most accurate load. I've seen Grizzly Bears and Moose killed with a .357. My first Caribou was taken with a .357 Pistol. One shot and it was down. Do use a premium bullet, one that expands well and retains as much as possible, with out blowing out the far side. Deer are thin skinned and it does not take much to go all the way through one. Bullet placement is the key. That is why I said go with the most accurate load for your gun. Don't underestimate the .357 cartridge with in it's reasonable ranges.

ironglow · « **Reply #29 on:** June 19, 2013, 12:36:02 AM »

Like most of the guys here, I have 3-4 different options.. .223, .44 mag, .308 or shotgun slug. I would use the .223 with the heaviest big game bullets my rifle can handle. However, when I go to the woods this fall, it will be the .44 mag or .308.
My area finally left the dark ages a few years ago..going from "shotgun only" to include centerfire rifles, just a few years ago. For deeper woods work, some have retained their appreciation of shotgun (no shot shells).

In your situation, I would go .357 mag this season..unless new brass is available well before big game season..allowing for loading and practice. The .357 should be fine...and although I have never tried one, I understand that Maxi is really a great deer rifle.