ultra problem

[speedrackin99]

i have a ultra 243 that was clover leaf maker  . I wanted more so had a well known gun smith do a trigger job . trigger is sweet . was shooting today and just cant seem to get em touchin ....mounts / scope is well . I did notice when gun was closed there is some play ?? i have a call out to the smitty .....dont think the trigger job has anything to do with the play ? can the hinge pin be warn .....will this effect accuracy ......?

[petemi]

 I can't believe the smith did anything to cause that.  I also doubt it's the hinge pin's fault.  If it shot cloverleafs before, it ain't the barrel.  I doubt it is the frame, and that leaves the glass and the mount or the forend fit.  Chuck an "O" ring on the stud and try it again.  A question that come to mind:  If it was so good, why'd you mess with it?
 
 Pete
 

[speedrackin99]

Im askin my self the same thing ..........i wanted dimes instead of nickles i guess

[Bill3006]

Maybe the latch spring wasn't reinstalled properly? If the trigger pull is lighter, you might not be following through the same and be getting lighter firing pin strikes and less consistent ignition.

[speedrackin99]

that is possible it locks closed and releases , ejects cases .But when u grab the barrel and the but stuck it has play . i belive it should be solid . barrel and receiver should lock solid ...... ? this is effecting my accuracy 

[quickdtoo]

Loose barrels aren't accurate, if the barrel is loose on the frame when it's locked up (forend removed), it needs to be shimmed or returned to H&R for replacement/repair. Underlugs on high pressure chamberings are known to setback resulting in poor accuracy and a loose barrel.

Tim

[gcrank1]

Make sure it is not a loose buttstock.

[speedrackin99]

talked to the smithy and he said its the lug or the pin . and it will have to go back to h&r ..im hopin they dont ck the trigger . I asked him what exactly he did .All he did was use a stone and clean  all the parts up so the really was nothin done other than a de bur job so no cuting or modifying of parts .. so hopefully they wont notice while it's there thinkin seriously of havin a 280 fitted for it .

[speedrackin99]

hay Tim can u explain high pressure chambering? i do reload my own ......

[quickdtoo]

30-06/308 class cartridges, those ~60kpsi, 22-250, 243, 308, 270 etc.

Tim

[gcrank1]

Check the headspace at the standing breech with some feeler gauges and try a thin shim in the underlug pivot as per the FAQs, no cost to speak of and you might 'restore' the accuracy on your own. If that doesnt work for you it can always go back.

[quickdtoo]

Just be aware if you send it to H&R for repair and the barrel has to be replaced(most likely), you'll get an extractor barrel back, they'll also restore the trigger to factory spec, IE ~3-3½lbs, for many this is incentive to make the repair yourself, see barrel fitting in the FAQs sticky. Make sure there's no debris or anything on the barrel or frame/standing breech that may prevent it from locking up completely, use some judicious force to make sure the action is locked up good.

Tim

[RPRNY]

Make sure it is not a loose buttstock.

A very astute recommendation and likely culprit.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

[speedrackin99]

checked head space with feeler gauges started with a .002 worked my way to .006 layed the feeler gauge in between reciver and barrel and closed the breech @.oo6 the play is gone tight as hell . my thinkin is an over size hinge pin say .007 would work . question is ....... has anyone ever pressed one out and insralled an over size to fix this .... not sure how i would shim the head space . i have access to a machine shop ....  butt stock was rock solid.
 it would be nice if i could get away with out sending to factory .

 i luv these little guns but its getin frustrating with this one  i also have a 7mm/08 hope i dont go thru this with that .........one really dumb ? my reloading is usually at the top of the charts .......i pay close attention to the primers after firing ... for evidence of too much pressure. havent sen of felt any bulging primers yet so i know im not at the limit ....would reloading at the top of the charts have somethin too do with this happening ?

[44 Man]

I'd certainly try shimming the hinge before I replaced the pin and see how that worked.  You do have play that needs to be addressed, but one thought that came to me also was that the 'smith probably well oiled the interior when he put it back together and you may have oil on the lock and shelf from that.  That would give you accuracy problems also.  Good luck with it, it can be frustrating that's for sure.  44 Man

[quickdtoo]

Shimming would be the way to go, but you might try knocking the pin out and turning it to see if it would tighten it up, one member removed the pin and ended up with a poor fitting barrel when it was reinstalled because he didn't index(mark) it so it could be reinstalled in the same position, all of the pins are splined on the left side. He sent it back to H&R to have the barrel refitted. The pin is generally very hard to remove, all of those I've removed were,  you can use a heavy hammer and brass drift, backing the frame with an oak board on a concrete floor is how I've done it, but an arbor press would be better, no worry about smacking/scratching the frame! I don't think H&R has oversize hinge pins(joint pin), Numrich doesn't list them, but they do have three different length latches(catch).

Tim

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufacturers/NewEnglandFirearms-33412/HandiRifleSB2-37578.htm?results=All
 

[petemi]

This is a quote from Tim, and I've done the exact same thing and it's worked a time or two.  Actually, the pin came out easier than expected.  It still wasn't a cake walk.

"The pin is generally very hard to remove, all of those I've removed were,  you can use a heavy hammer and brass drift, backing the frame with an oak board on a concrete floor is how I've done it, but an arbor press would be better, no worry about smacking/scratching the frame!"

I don't mean to sound like a slob/snob when I say this, but I keep from two to four spare SB2 frames always.  When I encounter a problem, I change frames.  Ninety percent of the time the problem is cured.  Don't ask me, cause I'll have to go and count, but I think there are fourteen Handi Rifles, all totally unaltered (barrel shortening excluded) locking up tight and shooting well.  There used to be shims living here, but there ain't no more.

Pete

[gcrank1]

Cut a strip of pop can about 1" long and as wide as the underlug contact area. Fold it over once and curl it around something smaller than the hinge pin, then wrap it down onto the pin, set the underlug on and close it up. The lockup should be greatly improved and give you a sense of how this is done with better quality shim stock/feeler gauge material (as per the FAQs). You can fold 2, 3 or 4 layers easily this way (that will hang together) to slowly increase the 'fill' to reduce headspace. Once you have it figured, measure the total thicknesses to use better stuff and you can actually go shoot it this way too.
This is a quick, easy, user friendly way to find out whats going on down there and has no downside for you.

[speedrackin99]

I will do that thanks for the info all u guys have been great im sure this will bring this awsome little gun right back in .......i will let ya all know

[OldSchoolRanger]

Before you do install a shim, I would check the following. 

Make sure it is not a loose buttstock.

A very astute recommendation and likely culprit.

I found out the hard way about this minor adjustment.

I'd certainly try shimming the hinge before I replaced the pin and see how that worked.  You do have play that needs to be addressed, but one thought that came to me also was that the 'smith probably well oiled the interior when he put it back together and you may have oil on the lock and shelf from that.  That would give you accuracy problems also.  Good luck with it, it can be frustrating that's for sure.  44 Man

This may also be a contributing factor to take into consideration.

[speedrackin99]

Thanks for all the help .Ive checked all of the above .....all negative . As soon as i have the time ( gotta make hay when the sun shines ) I'm going to shim the block and pin and shoot a few test rounds if that is a fix then too the machine shop we will go.

    All u guys have been awsome i was gettin ready to wrap it around a tree ....... and go back to bolt actions ,but theres just somethin abought them single shots.......I think they make us better shooters .

[gcrank1]

While you get it back to shootin' good groups think about dropping the load by a bit. The old rule of thumb was that a 5% reduction will reduce pressures by 10%, (and -10% = -20%), all of which will be good for the rifle and you will likely not notice much, if any difference in performance. Im not the first one to note that often the best accuracy is at something less than top loads.
Hope it comes around quickly for you!

[speedrackin99]

im learnin i guess the hard way ......is it a common thing with these rifles ...... when jackin up loads ? Is there any way to beef up the block / pin combo would a hard stainless pin be better?

[quickdtoo]

See underlug improvement in the FAQs sticky, but the easier way is use moderate handloads. 

Tim

[Goatwhiskers]

Back in the day we used to tighten up loose barrels on old singles using a tapered reamer and pin, Brownells used to sell them in 2 sizes.  I still have some in my tool drawer.  You would drive out the old pin, clamp the barrel and frame together, ream the hole thru everything at the same time, seat a new pin, then dress everything off and refinish the mess you made.  OK I guess, but for our purposes you would be locked into that barrel forever, not so good.  It never was worth the time involved anyway.  GW

[speedrackin99]

well , the shim has been made and in place really tightens it up still have to shoot maybe tomorrow . Tim read the whole post on underlug improvement . if this shim fixes this issue which i believe it will. would i be better off sending it back to h&r to fix ? what is there known fix? or would they refit a new barrel to my receiver .  i would opt for the 24 bull  and pay the difference ...

[quickdtoo]

New barrel most likely, although sometimes they can change the latch to improve lockup, a new barrel will be an extractor, they don't make ejector CF rifle barrels any more.

Tim

[speedrackin99]

thanks . Im going too call them today ....... i have a ? reguarding velocity . My hornady reloading manual list approx speeds with a 24
' 1in9 twist barrel  that would be one of my reasons for going to the 24 bull ....whats the rule of thumb of velocity when loosing barrel length ?

[speedrackin99]

just got off the phone with h&r ... nice customer service ... have to send the gun to Ilion . they will determine new barrel or ..... a relug and pin

[quickdtoo]

There's some good info on velocity by the inch in the FAQs sticky.

Tim