300BLK lite loads

[nframe]

I loaded a few new test loads for the 300 today and shot a couple groups/patterns.  I used 3.0 Clays under all three bullets, a Lee 93 gr sized 311, Lee 1552r sized 311 and Lee 2305r unsized.  The small and large ones were Lee tumble lubed, the 155 shake and bake powder coated with mixed black and white overspray floor sweepings from where my cousin used to work.  The nose of the bullet on these engaves the rifling a bit seated to the crimp groove.  They shot about dime sized group at 25 with Lupy pig plex set on 4x.  This is not a great reticle for precision aiming but is easy to see for hunting the woods.  I need to cast some more to powder coat.  No gas check on anything.  Without having chony'd any, I would guess 8-850 fps.  Most accurate cast boolits so far.  Ed Harris design, I believe.  Stay tuned.

[Spanky]

What are you going to use the gun for? Hunting, target or a little bit of both?
That little 93gr. bullet would probably be good for small game. Plenty of power without tearing up much meat.
 
 
 
Spanky

[gcrank1]

Use as large a dia. as fits the fully fire-formed case mouth. At those low velo's/pressures you wont bump up and need all the help you can get to ensure no gas gets past the base. A softer alloy can help too, as well as sometimes only another 50-100fps.

[twoshooter]

Sounds good. I have been debating on a Lee 93 gr mold, I have an RCBS 112 gr. Your load is very close to old 32 long loads, should be great small game load. With 22LR &22mag so hard to find, a good small game load is VERY valuable.

[Jeff H]

Use as large a dia. as fits the fully fire-formed case mouth.........

Not sure if nframe is having the same issue, but that's not working for me in this chamber.  The throat is .309" but the leading edge is very abrupt and sharp.  Anything I size over .309" shaves off and fills the void in the chamber between the case mouth and the end of the chamber neck.  Once it's filled (first shot) it's ok but the filler ring comes out on the mouth of a case at irregular intervals and causes the shaving problem (and group size problem) is there again.  This also cause me to have to load really short with heavier lead bullets.

I and my best friend share a LEE mould as described above but we can't find it.  I have been using the RCBS 32 cal 98 grain SWC sized at .310".  2.8 grains of W231 and it's mild but very accurate at 50 yards.

I am also using the LEE C309-113F with conventional lube and a GC with 12 grains of 2400 or tumble-lubed and no GC with light charges of W231 or Unique.  Again, very accurate.

.314 Round Balls are a hoot as well over 1.2 grains of W231.  This is the most accurate centerfire RB-shooter I have ever loaded for.

The information I have shared is for reference purposes only.  Do your research in real loading data by component manufacturers.

nframe, how in the world are you getting that Ed Harris design to chamber?  The one I have some samples of are full diameter for a long section of the bullet and what part should be riding the bore is not bore diameter but groove diameter.  I would really have to stuff those back into my case.

[gcrank1]

Jeff, should your case length perhaps be longer to fill that gap?

[Jeff H]

I actually tried that but the sharp edge of the throat and its .309" diameter still shaves lead larger than .309".  If the throat were tapered from, say .311" at the beginning to .309" where the leade starts, it would solve my problem.  I have read of others sizing their cast bullets properly (over groove diameter) for accuracy and lead-free shooting but am puzzled as to how they even get them chambered.

The potential for accuracy in this thing is very encouraging but I will shoot three into a half inch and then two into a quarter inch - somewhere else, like .75" to 1" away from the original group.  Any flier can easily become a new group if I just keep shooting because another projectile will find it and land nearly on top of it.

I am tempted to see f I can get someone to take a lathe or reamer to it and modify the throat a bit.  As a small game gun, it provides considerable thump with less noise than a .22 LR.  I expect to be able to use it thus as well as being able to boost those LEE 113 grain FPs to varmint class at 175 to 200 yards.  Of course, I am also experimenting with the 170s for bigger stuff if I should ever need it for that, but it shows some serious versatility potential as it is quite amenable to a very wide range of (pistol) powders when not specifically tasked to do the sub-sonic thing in a gas gun. 

As nframe has shown, the LEE .32 TL SWC would make this a very cheap and easy to load for little small game carbine.  I have used the LEE 358-158 TL SWC in much the same vein in the .357/.38 carbine.  A smidge of powder, a case that never needs sizing or trimming, a primer and and unsized, tumble-lubed bullet make it cheap and easy as well as quick to accumulate a big pocketful of very capable cartridges for. 

[bikerbeans]

If your 300 BO chamber is cut to spec. then your bullet must be sized to .308".  Anything bigger than .308" sticking out of the case mouth will interfere with loading the round into the chamber.  Ask me how I know this?   I realize with a Handi one can force a tad bit oversized bullet to load but with an AR platform and a low pressure subsonic round it will cause trouble.   I have a .308" size die headed my way and plan on going back to work loading the Lee 230g 5R shortly. 


BB

[nframe]

Jeff , I too have the shavi ng issue.  The 155 engaves a bit seated to the crimp grove and requires a snap to shut but but seems themost accurate of anything so far.   I got a 1" or so group today out of the 230 5r at 50 yds on 2.7 clays.  Shot some PC Lee 501 440 gc with 300mp in the 500 sw with good results.  With pc and gc, no leading at full throttle.  Would knock the 6" x 1" thick gong for full loop on the stand.  700gr  MP did it too but with more authority.  500  gr lee plain base 45 cal PCd, did about 3"   @ 50 on imr 4198 to the bullet base not compressed.  Don't take many 500 SW mag to do you at full power.  Got to try PC 230 5R on 300MP w gc for full power to se if results are as good as 500 SW.  Yet to try 231 in 300BLK for lite loads.  Can of Clays might be 20 yrs old, can't remember why I bought it to start with, but I know now how to use it up.  The 300 BLK is is more than I expected when it followed me home.  Hard to get much cheaper to shoot cf rounds or rimfire nowadays.  I  like IT since there is not a 32swhrfed Handi.  More to come..  Stay tuned.

[gcrank1]

I dont have the 300BK, but if it follows the convention for chambers used for quite some long time now it will have the step from case mouth dia. to the 'ball seat', an actual cylindrical throat, unlike the tapered throats of old which were nothing more than varying angles of taper to the rifling. The ball seat type is to be preferred, but requires the bullet be sized only a smidge under that dia. and, of course, it is cut to a depth for the intended bullet length forward of the case mouth. The admonition to size to the throat means to the ball seat, in these type chambers. If your bullet of choice is too long then you can deep seat or get the appropriate reamer. My preference would be to hopefully have the proper ball seat size bullet be a snug fit in the fire formed case mouth and to finger seat it long and let the final chambering find its depth when the ojive hits the leade. The snugness would ideally be such that the bullet does not fall out for field use. I have had the pleasure of a couple rifle that are like this.

[Jeff H]

If your 300 BO chamber is cut to spec. then your bullet must be sized to .308".  Anything bigger than .308" sticking out of the case mouth will interfere with loading the round into the chamber.  Ask me how I know this?   I realize with a Handi one can force a tad bit oversized bullet to load but with an AR platform and a low pressure subsonic round it will cause trouble.   I have a .308" size die headed my way and plan on going back to work loading the Lee 230g 5R shortly. 


BB

Oh, yes, it's to spec., and oh, yes, you are spot on - it certainly interferes.  Not a design flaw by any means but poses certain challenges when used for purposes other than those for which it was intended.  I would not personally want to have to deal with it in an AR because everything I would do to correct one issue would compound another. 

I tried sizing to .309" and it leads, which I expected but perhaps a lead bullet designed for the chamber will yield better results.  I cast pretty soft anyway but would be hesitant to go softer, especially with some of the bullet hanging below the shoulder.  Perhaps the  mass of the heavies will give it a chance to bump up and seal the bore though.  I have not shot anything over 170 grains. 

[Jeff H]

Jeff , I too have the shavi ng issue.  The 155 engaves a bit seated to the crimp grove and requires a snap to shut but but seems themost accurate of anything so far.   I got a 1" or so group today out of the 230 5r at 50 yds on 2.7 clays.  Shot some PC Lee 501 440 gc with 300mp in the 500 sw with good results.  With pc and gc, no leading at full throttle.  Would knock the 6" x 1" thick gong for full loop on the stand.  700gr  MP did it too but with more authority.  500  gr lee plain base 45 cal PCd, did about 3"   @ 50 on imr 4198 to the bullet base not compressed.  Don't take many 500 SW mag to do you at full power.  Got to try PC 230 5R on 300MP w gc for full power to se if results are as good as 500 SW.  Yet to try 231 in 300BLK for lite loads.  Can of Clays might be 20 yrs old, can't remember why I bought it to start with, but I know now how to use it up.  The 300 BLK is is more than I expected when it followed me home.  Hard to get much cheaper to shoot cf rounds or rimfire nowadays.  I  like IT since there is not a 32swhrfed Handi.  More to come..  Stay tuned.

That's where I'm at - snap shut to engrave but the noses of what I am using are not specifically accommodating.   The LEE C309-170F has a .300" bore riding nose and that one works fairly well this way, allowing me to seat it out some.  I could size the front band and next band back to .309" and probably seat the GC at the base of the neck, but that would be a bit of a pain.  The RDO 311-165 has a better (wider) meplat and is thus more to my liking but is not as conducive to seating long enough even when some part of it is forced into the throat - which is only about .170" long.  Still experimenting.

YES, it is less costly than shooting a rimfire right now and considerably more fun as well because it's like the 32-20 the Handi shold have been chambered for for years but is not.

Keep it coming nframe.  I'll post what I come up with as well and maybe we'll each come up with a few things the other didn't.  Glad you're posting on this.  I've tried to get some discussion generated in two other places and it just doesn't seem that interesting to them.

[Jeff H]

I dont have the 300BK, but if it follows the convention for chambers used for quite some long time now it will have the step from case mouth dia. to the 'ball seat', an actual cylindrical throat, unlike the tapered throats of old which were nothing more than varying angles of taper to the rifling. The ball seat type is to be preferred, but requires the bullet be sized only a smidge under that dia. and, of course, it is cut to a depth for the intended bullet length forward of the case mouth. The admonition to size to the throat means to the ball seat, in these type chambers. If your bullet of choice is too long then you can deep seat or get the appropriate reamer. My preference would be to hopefully have the proper ball seat size bullet be a snug fit in the fire formed case mouth and to finger seat it long and let the final chambering find its depth when the ojive hits the leade. The snugness would ideally be such that the bullet does not fall out for field use. I have had the pleasure of a couple rifle that are like this.

No argument there and it is "properly" chambered as per modern convention.  It's a good design and execution as well.  For pointy jacketed bullets, it's a "go" and according to many, .001" over groove on a cast bullet is a "go" too, but I have not always found this to be the case personally.  True, "filling the throat" is sort of an old way of making up for chambers not necessarily perfect, or, as fairly typical, oversized.  This chamber would seem to "correct" what is considered a fault in many old chambers but .001" over groove isn't quite enough in my particular rifle.

This ball seat/throat is only .170" long and the leade is short as well.  Funny.  We complain for years about long throats and having to seat bullets too long and when someone addresses the issues with dimensions to accommodate, it's still not good enough.  The real "problem" lies in my misuse of the chambering but I am not willing to let go of the idea of the prospective balance of economy and efficiency of the availability of the brass and its powder space.  A 30-30 would be a shoe-in in many respects except that it only has more powder space than I really need for cast bullets.

It may be  that I have to shoot .309" cast but I would prefer to not have to water quench, heat treat or get too technical with my alloying.  If it gets that complicated, I would be better off to spend $250 and have it rebored to .357.

In all other respects, it has been easy to cast for and I wouldn't even own it if I had to use jacketed.  If I could afford jacketed bullets, I'd be shooting my 6.5x55 or .257 Roberts anyway.

[gcrank1]

Have you tried air cooled WWt with, say, no more than 2% tin to aid casting? if the bullet is at full groove dia. it sounds as if it, or it with an alum. GC beneath should be a good alloy. I can get some of those GC's to send you now as it seems to be working.
As for bump-up, Im not so sure that at your low velo/breech pressures that it will occur. BTW, do you  belong to The Cast Bullet Assoc., its great with info on shooting everything with cast. Recently there was discussion on the use of COW as a filler and how it will get behind the bullet and nix the gas cutting. Ive also used mica dusting over a lubed bullet as It think it sorta does the same (at least the bullets arent sticky anyway).

[Jeff H]

Have you tried air cooled WWt with, say, no more than 2% tin to aid casting? if the bullet is at full groove dia. it sounds as if it, or it with an alum. GC beneath should be a good alloy. I can get some of those GC's to send you now as it seems to be working.
As for bump-up, Im not so sure that at your low velo/breech pressures that it will occur. BTW, do you  belong to The Cast Bullet Assoc., its great with info on shooting everything with cast. Recently there was discussion on the use of COW as a filler and how it will get behind the bullet and nix the gas cutting. Ive also used mica dusting over a lubed bullet as It think it sorta does the same (at least the bullets arent sticky anyway).

I'm using air cooled wheel weights w/tin and air cooled 50/50 wheel weights/pure lead, tumble lube, conventional lube, .309", .310", .311", with and without gas checks (Hornady until I need more and then will buy another Freechex III) at pressures low enough to leave cases sooty and primers slightly backed out and high enough to flatten and fill in the primer pocket where the radius of the primer was.  That last one is ONE round while working up with IMR 4227. 

I would probably be able to get away with a gas check and .309" but I only want to use a gas check if I absolutely must.  For anything less than 1200 fps, I would expect to not have to use one.  That would include any of the low pressure, fast pistol powder loads for small game and messing around.  That said, I do not plan to pay $30+/k for gas checks and am interested in how the aluminum is working for the .30.  I am using the Freechex III for .357 and it has been excellent.  I LOVE not being tied to supply lines or affected by shortages on as many components as possible.

No, I am not a member of CBA but I have lurked there.  I don't post much here but post much less on the only other two forums I visit.  The tendency for some to assume you are an idiot because you have less that a thousand posts, answer every question but the one you pose without having read the post, admonish you for not doing things the way a certain few high posters do,... well, you've been there and done that.  Anyway, it leaves me weary and unwilling to sign up anywhere any more.  I have been politely encouraged not to do that by a GBO member for whom I have a lot of respect and I think you know who that member is.  I should sign up at CBA.  I recognize a few characters there and the atmosphere seems good.  BUT, I enjoy solving these problems and would rather share that entertainment with those here who have consistently treated me well.

NOW, the mail lady just brought me a brand new RDO 311-165 six-cavity redesign that Michael did as a group buy on Cast Boolits about a year ago.  A fella on 300 BLK already had an NOE copy and decided to let this one go.  I plan to clean it up and get it ready to cast some with it this weekend.  The NOE redesign included a front driving band with a bit of a bore rider nose (very subtle) and Michael, being the open minded fella that he is, included that in that run along with a slight change to the front edge of the nose.  I am hopeful that the slightly redesigned nose will help me a little on the heavier end. 

[nframe]

 I started to cast some more experiments today but the ancient Lyman pot developed a burned wire issue before I dropped the first good bullet.  I wanted to cast a bunch of 311410 s to powdercoat.  Anybody else had trouble with where the power cord plugs onto the pot, kinda like a 2 prong waffle iron plug with two round prongs on the pot. I have fixed it a couple times but it usually doesn't last for long.

[Jeff H]

What's failing, the cord or the plug/socket?
If it's the cord, you should replace it completely.  If the insulation is failing at one point, it is likely to do so at another point.
What you have to look for is whether the insulation is rated for high temperatures - as in it is of some woven, fiber-glass like material.
If it's regular insulation, and the plug/socket us rated for the heat, it will be much easier to replace the cord.

If it's the plug/socket, you should replace it immediately.  If the plug/socket is placed such that it does not need to be rated for the heat, all the better - it will be easier to replace.

Now, whether it's the cord or the plug/socket that you replace - just go ahead and replace the other while you're at it.

Any conductor or connector which has had to be repaired more than once bears scrutiny and consideration of completely replacing both.  If they are rated for temps above what one would normally encounter in say, a desk lamp or TV, you may need high-temp conductors and finding a multi-conductor cable may be a little work - finding the proper plug/socket setup will require some research as well, but that stuff is out there.  An unlike substitute rated for the application may even require changes to how it is mounted.

If you're dipping your alloy, a new pot isn't that much.  If it's a bottom-pour, they cost a bit more, but either way, if you're not particularly electrically inclined, I'd just replace the whole pot.  I hate to discard "old" stuff myself, but sometimes it's not worth it.

Try these guys.  http://www.tempco.com/accessories/Plugs.htm

They have high-temp wire also - in case you need it and I am not certain you do.  I am not even certain you need a high-temp plug/socket, but don't buy household use stuff for this.  Tempco has a good site, good products and their catalog is full of useful information in the back.  I used to use them once in a while when I was in process heating and I was always impressed that they actually knew something about their products.  Very helpful people.  I can't say if they will work with a private individual but it's worth a shot.

Boiler plate: I am not suggesting you do your own electrical work or even specify your own components.  You burn your house down, well, it's your own fault.  There are tons of codes one must consider when doing electrical work, namely NFPA, or National FIRE PROTECTION Association, state codes, local codes and then, there's the insurance companies, lawyers, civil court,.......

Sorry.   I have to say that.

[nframe]

Got the pot to work for while.  Casted some 311410's  and Lee 93 RN.  Powder coated and loaded a few of each w 17.0 LilGun.  Will try to shoot in next few days if the weather cooperates.   Leading experiment underway.

[nframe]

Shot'em out the window of the the shop as it was snowing.  Didn't appear to lead but I couldn't tell where they hit.  I tried one Lee 230 5r on 300 MP but had a 2gr BF on the charge and got primer leakage.  Pulled the bullets on the others.  The case extracted just fine.  I should never trust my memory for long.  I will try more with the correct charge.  I am thinking a gas check may be necessary for accuracy with full loads and soft bullets.  Remains to be seen.  LOOK AT THE PAPER WHEN YOU SET THE POWDER MEASURE.  I've done this for 40 yrs and this is my worst screw up.  Glad it wasn't worse.  Be careful out there.

[gcrank1]

The following may be useful in thinking about this:

http://thementalmilitia.com/forums/index.php?topic=11158.0

[twoshooter]

Ironic this is the 1st time I have seen this, but my 357 load is 14 gr of 2400..... my 300 AAC load is 15 gr of 2400...... my 444 load is 20 gr of 2400, my 500 load is 20 gr of blue dot or 22 gr of 2400.

[gcrank1]

The longer Im in this game the more 'there is nothing new under the sun' seems to be (with some exceptions due to technology, but the basics still apply there too; ie, gravity and BC is still gravity and BC).