simple project gone bad tonight......water heater element...still stuck

[45-70.gov]

should have taken an hour....including trip to store
but nothing went right!!
first i forgot to knock water off rag top samuri;;;[jeep]
ever wonder what happens at 55 when the hood opens......i just found out
lowes  didn't have the part i needed...and the sun is down
home depot  did  tho....4  more miles away
got back  and  can't turn  it with  large 3/4 drive rachet and 6 point  socket
rounded up my electric impact wrench...and adapter  1/2 to 3/4
IT STILL WON'T TURN
applied penetrating oil  and a MAPP gas torch
hit it again with the impact wrench
wrecked the element when  the socket spun
gave up blasted with penetrating oil  and let it set overnight
maybe there will be enough left for the socket to grab....after the oil soaks all night
i stopped as soon as it slipped a little
ANY OTHER SUGGESTIONS??
HEATER LOOKS TO BE OTHER WISE IN GOOD SHAPE
what about  drilling and an ''easy out''??

[powderman]

Wish I could help. I never did like those screw in type, but never had one that hard to break loose. It will be better in the morning after you calm down and rest a bit. The penetrating oil should do the trick overnight. A little prayer can't hurt.  POWDERMAN. 

[FPH]

Stilsen with better leverage.

[Tommyt]

They make and sell at HD a wrench that fits like a glove
Should have been rt next too the element

[45-70.gov]

those tubing socket are junk...i have a few


i used a real socket  with 18 inch ratchet
then tried an electric impact


if the penetrating oil doesn't do it by morning
i will try the EZ out...and if that fails...new water heater

[DDZ]

If it didn't move with an impact gun, I doubt an easy out will get it. Chances are you will snap the easy out off. You could try drilling it, then cut a relief in it to the threads. If its made out of more of a cast or pot metal material. You may be able to break it.   

[ironglow]

One old trick for a tight bolt.. put as much torque on the nut as you can and rap the top of the bolt lightly (or heavily if it will take it), sometimes this gets a bolt loose, may be worth a try on the head of the element.

[45-70.gov]

got through breakfast with out spilling coffee


might be a good sign the penetrating oil did its thing


hearding over there in an hour
like someone said,,,,,easy out will probly snap  if the impact driver failed

[magooch]

My rule of thumb is that if the water heater is a few years old, it's generally more cost effective to replace it.  My experience is that by the time the warranty is expired, the heater is living on borrowed time.  I never get one that has a very long warranty, because I doubt they are built any different than the less expensive ones.  The last one I replaced, I found the best deal at Home Depot.

[DDZ]

I agree if the water heater is 8-10 years old, just buy new. The tank will eventually develop a leak. I think the main difference between the more expensive and cheaper ones are the level of cathodic protection they have. The more expensive ones have more/better corrosion protection hence a longer warranty. 

Another thing to try if you want to mess with it is file the hex down a bit until you can tap the next smaller size socket on it. Maybe a metric socket. Then rap on it with your impact gun some more.

[PowPow]

The more expensive ones have more/better corrosion protection hence a longer warranty. 

That's what I was told by a former manufacturing engineer from Rheem. Longer sacrificial anode = longer warranty. Other stuff is the same.

[45-70.gov]

DONE
but it didn't start well
the socket was a 12 point not 6 point like i said
it spun some more this morning  after soaking all night in penetrating oil
off  to car parts places for a 6 point
advanced auto   [2nd place]  had a 38 mm...actually a better fit on the element
i took down the rounded edges on a belt sander to get it further on down
it still wouldn't budge even with the dewalt impact driver
i hit it again with the MAPP gas torch
dispite the fire i held it there until i saw glowing red metal
quickly put the  impack driver on it an  IT TURNED
MUCH TEFLON PIPE DOPE WAS APPLIED TO THE NEW ELEMENT
i just hope i didn't cook the thermostat with the torch...
.it was engulfed with flames...but looked ok afterward

[ultramag44]

Now the water will be nice & hot!  Within 3 months, the tank will be leaking!  Sorry, I could not resist. 

Honestly though, when stuff on these units gets disturbed by having no choice but to "heavy-hand" a repair, more trouble usually follows in short order.                                             

Begin to follow the monthly sale flyers and research which new one will fit into your house and hookup w/ the least amount of work & pain.

[45-70.gov]

i own 13 water heaters
changed about 20   complete tanks
and  changed about 100 elements  ...over many years....i am not a plumber


this was just a jinxed job....lol
last job  i did went flawless

[ironglow]

  Our big bugaboo for water tanks around here is lime in the water.  Let go, it will build up as a hard crust in the bottom of the tank until it reaches the heating coil.. short that out and now you have a task.  I have used my current tank for 14 years, but every 2 years I pull the bottom coil and find a thick buildup of limestone.  Then I take a long tool I made in my forge, although a long, heavy screwdriver will work as well, and I reach in and break up the limestone.
  After breaking the limestone, I need to take the chips out, so I take a 1" metal tube (a couple feet of a shower curtain "rod"), tape it tighlly into the hose on a Shop-Vac and suck all those crumbles out.  Sometimes that is half a Shop-Vac container .Sometimes the coil still looks real good, but I replace it anyway.

  The upper coil I replace just to be sure, every 4-5 years..no matter how good it may look.

[Bugflipper]

I had one do that several years ago with a 3/4 breaker bar. It was rusted so bad it just locked up. I tried all the tricks. 1/2 acetone to 1/2 ATF, heated the surrounding and froze the element. Tighten then loosen. It just kept slipping off and rounding the nut. I finally got the welder out and put 2 spot welds on the socket to the element and a leverage pipe on the breaker bar and got it out. Cut the welds with a dremel tool and ground them off later.

[williamlayton]

Having been associated with this industry for many years---even those that manufactire them will admit that a water heater is the weak link and most desirable appliance to replace every 10 years. Second in line is the A/C--third are diswashers and diposals.
Typically what is replaced first is the cook-top and oven. Why---decorations.
You can do it IG's way---but it is a little more anal than my way.
They make a pretty good cooker in an after life.
Blessings

[45-70.gov]

no calls yet.....so i guess the tenents had a good long shower last night


IG we have lots of lime here to
i usually rinse them ...but not this time
just jerked out the old and plugged in the new FAST....precoated with thread dope ofcorse
didn't take time to look inside.....probly didn't spill but a quart of water


BUG....i will remember that welding trick....i need an excuse to buy another welder

[SHOOTALL]

We install up to 1000 water heaters a year (well before 2008 we did ) . Most all are the same only difference is warranty. When we buy them we select the warranty we want and pay according sometimes they give us a new label to put on the heater other times it is noted by the ser. number at time of sale. . We replace anode rods  also and so far they all come the same length for same size heaters. We replace them because they send heaters with the wrong rod for local conditions IE; zinc or magnesium.   
 As for knocking out a "tight " element , A hammer and chisel used to try and hit the flats in a way to turn the element out is best id the flats are messed up. Soak it with PB or Kroil first.
 If you look most all tanks are glass lined , it is a coating that looks like the blue with white dots found on camp cookware. What it does is fill any holes in the welding and keep the water from contacting the tank surface. The area where the element screws in is probably the first place the chemicals in the water attack the tank unless you have something like an open ground ( often caused by using a portable generator not grounded proper) so if you heater is over 8 years and has a stuck element it is best to switch out because the heater could split later as it is already showing signs of the tank rusting . If you do get an element out and the heater is located so if it ruptured it would not cause a lot of damage it would still be a good idea to watch it in the future for leaks.

[BBF]

I've had two of them spring a leak on a Sunday !!

[blind ear]

You guys have opinions on the "on demand" type water heaters? ear

[BBF]

You guys have opinions on the "on demand" type water heaters? ear

For a number of years living in the old country that is all we had. One over the kitchen sink the other handled the bathtub. These used gas.
Later in my live I had one rigged up for a shower on a boat. They work OK but are not efficient
This one used propane.
 
I believe some very small units run on electricity.
 
One problem with the gas/propane heaters is the exhaust which is hot enough to need a good amount of clearance or outside venting.

[Bugflipper]

I have an electric one under the house. It's 10 years old. You need to measure the flow rate of your faucets and that determines what size you need. My way of thinking was I didn't want to be in the shower then the kitchen sink gets turned on and the water gets cold. So I just added up every faucet and figured that would be fine since they would probably have less flow if all were on at the same time. Glad I did it that way because what I didn't factor in was the dish washer, just forgot. I got the 27kw model and it does fine for the whole house. Never had any trouble with it.

[Conan The Librarian]

That description is about like a lot of my home maintenance projects. Five minute job, four hours or more of shopping for stuff.
 

[SHOOTALL]

You guys have opinions on the "on demand" type water heaters? ear

First unless you have a source for elec. you have no hot water if the power is off . Even the gas units require 110 volts. Second there is sometimes a problem with the low flow faucets not allowing enough water flow to cause the heater to operate. There is a filter that also gets clogged causing a low flow. Then there is a need to flush with a cleaner from time to time. The gas units work and may save some money in operation if not on the install. IMHO the elec. units are not a good value yet due to elec. cost involved.
 With a tank heater you have some hot water on hand when power goes out even with an EHWH. With old style gas heater you have hot water as long as you have water.
 That said if you have a large family or need for a lot of hot water it can be a good choice.

[45-70.gov]

anybody  try or have opinions of the heatpumps water heaters??


when i built a house my X ended up with
there was a heat  recovery system on the upsptairs A/C system...free HW in the summer

[SHOOTALL]

If the local utility helps with the cost it is ok. We have seen one system in 20 years . I think it is cost .

[BBF]

The units I saw s a kid did not require electricity. Water pressure turned on the flames when the tap was opened.

[SHOOTALL]

 The only ones aval. today that I have seen have electronic ignition involving a hot surface ignition or spark plug like affair. To have a safety circuit they created a circuit also.

[PowPow]

anybody  try or have opinions of the heatpumps water heaters?

They are used mostly in kitchens in schools and hospitals, where year round cooling is appreciated and needed.
I recently heard about a new energy code requirment that will require heat pump water heating above certain capacities (3-4 times the size of a typical house). I haven't seen the technology yet. You have to pull the heat from somewhere. Ground source; the wells can be very expensive. Ambient Air; very cold air and very hot water means a high compression ratio which means efficiencies drop down below the cost of gas, but could still beat resistance heat. Same would apply to residential; I can't see the ROI on a residential heat pump water heater beating anybody's reasonable hurdle rate. I sold a few in the last 20 years, but not residential size, mine are couple hundred tons each and the biuldings were filled with electronics so there was a year round cooling need.

there was a heat  recovery system on the upsptairs A/C system...free HW in the summer

Thought those would catch on better than they did. Lots of quality (high temp) heat coming of an A/C compressor in a hot day, not as much on milder days. But since mold has been such an issue in the last several years, folks have been using that heat to do dehumidification. Adding the hot water heating to dehumidification adds bucks with greatly diminished bang.

The units I saw as a kid did not require electricity. Water pressure turned on the flames when the tap was opened.

I imagine the water pressure closed a switch to a thermocouple that generates millivolts like the old floor furnaces that did not use electricity.