How many 13 inch dictator type mortars made?

[WindElevation]

 Maybe they mean the steamship Dictator to Ft. Monroe, City Point, Petersburg and Richmond. On Jan. 30, 1866 the steamship Missouri's boiler explodes at the mouth of the Green River, present site of Evansville - Henderson. The survivors were rescued by the steamship Dictator.

[shred]

A little bit of 'in-your-face' rubbing it in by the (northern) steamship companies?

[MKlein]

A Dictator story
http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn82016187/1903-04-23/ed-1/seq-3/#date1=1836&index=0&rows=20&words=Dictator+mortar&searchType=basic&sequence=0&state=&date2=1922&proxtext=dictator+mortar&y=0&x=0&dateFilterType=yearRange&page=1

Interesting that says 17,185 lbs since IIRC cannonmn's article shows it to be recorded as 1 lb heavier.

According to Jim Bender
There are none that survive with that weight recorded. (17,185 pounds)
No 63, Fdy No 864
No 96 Fdy No 903
No 103, Fdy No 915
Each of these is recorded as having that weight.

[GGaskill]

After further reading, it looks like the Dictator they mentioned wasn't a place but a steamboat named Dictator.

That works too.  They CAP'D the first two ship names but didn't CAP the word Dictator (or the words City Point) so it wasn't obvious that those were ship names.

From the William and Mary article:

"The Leary Brothers of New York began operation of the George Leary and James T. Brady, together with the Dictator and City Point for the connecting James River service."  [Ship names are traditionally italicized in professionally printed text.]

[entsminger]

  I'd like to see the scale they weighed a 17 thousand mortar on. I'm sure they'd be off a pound or two either way.

[entsminger]

It appears that WindElevation, another Coloradan, has stated the accurate figure on the quantity of Army mortars approved for purchase, (90) and that number added to the quantity purchased by the Navy, (72) comes to 162 total for the 13-inch Seacoast Mortar, Pattern 1861.  Also, 27 are known to have survived until 1997

  Of 162 only 27 are accounted for? I can't imagine that all the rest of those were melted down or scrapped?Some of those must be sitting somewhere unknown. Does anyone know of a private individual owning an origional pattern 1861 13 incher?

  Scott

[MKlein]

 

 

[entsminger]

I was told by this fellow that this mortar in the picture on the concrete stand is made of concrete, not iron.He said he made it.

  Scott

[GLS]

So, is was the original iron motar returned to the owners listed or is it still in a levee on Davis island?

[cannonmn]

Scott, don't know who it was who told you it was made of concrete (if we're both talking about the one picture in post no. 36.)  It sure looks 100% original to me, and I've spent a lot of time separating fake antiques from real ones.  If you're really convinced it is made of concrete, let's "make it intere$ting," what do you say? 

[Cannon Cocker]

Definitely looks more like rust pitting than concrete spalling on the face.  The rust color that seems to coincide with where the water would pool inside the bore goes along with iron.  It's a stretch, but it could be from exposed rebar I guess.  On the reverse though, it's interesting how pitted the muzzle face is compared to inside of the bore where there would be more accumulation of water.  The bore looks pretty smooth.  What would account for that disparity. 

[MKlein]

I don't know why they would make up a story about finding the mortar on a levee on Davis Island then go through all the trouble to make a duplicate out of concrete.
 
It looks no different than the one found in the Tensaw river in Baldwin County AL.

 
http://www.wkrg.com/story/22879998/moving-a-rare-p?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=9107445

[cannonmn]

Those folks setting the mortar on the concrete pad, lifting it with the "eye" were taking a chance.  No one I know who is knowledgeable regarding cast iron mortars, would consider lifting it with the eye, especially on a mortar that old.  The cast iron can break off with all that weight on it.  Sure the eye was designed for lifting the tube only, but they have tube and bed suspended by the eye.

Regarding the differing appearance of bore and the rest, it makes sense considering that all the US 13" mortars were cast using the Rodman casting process of internal cooling, then boring the bore up to the required diameter.  The iron in the bore area is denser than that in the remainder of the mortar, due to the compression of the surrounding molten iron during cooling.  It would seem that the denser iron would have different corrosion characteristics, but I have no facts to back up that theory.

[Zulu]

Can anyone see what is holding the mortar and the bed together?  I don't see anything.
Zulu

[entsminger]

Scott, don't know who it was who told you it was made of concrete (if we're both talking about the one picture in post no. 36.)  It sure looks 100% original to me, and I've spent a lot of time separating fake antiques from real ones.  If you're really convinced it is made of concrete, let's "make it intere$ting," what do you say?

  ==Scott==
  I'm not convinced of anything but I do recall when talking to this fellow who did make concrete repro's of 13 inch mortars he showed me that particular picture of a mortar that he said he made sitting atop those spindly concrete trunions. I mean think how dang heavy that barrel is, would you try and hold 17,000 pounds up on those flimsey stands? From what I was told the mortar at Petersburg is concrete as well. Looking at it years ago I never would have guesses that.  He told me of one such concrete mortar that he made that was hit by a truck and broke to pieces. Unfortunately all of a sudden in the middle of our many correspondences he stopped writing. I don't know if he died or what??

[entsminger]

  I'll have to go back to my records that are packed away now from about 10 years ago when I last spoke to this fellow who said he made concrete mortars. He seemed to have an interesting history which included relatives who manned one of the big mortars during the war. He said he made a big pattern of the 13 incher and put it in the ground in a section rich in some kind of clay suitable for making molds. Then he'd pour concrete in the mold in the ground and later dig it up. When I told him of my plans to make a fake one out of an old propane tank he got very interested in doing the same thing but then all of a sudden he stopped writing? He never would respond after that so I don't know what happened to him? It's been so long now and my memory isn't so good anymore so I can't even remember his name now. Getting old ain't so fun. By the time I ever do get a mortar, if that ever happens,  I'll probably forget that I even wanted one. I can see it now, my son will get a 13 incher off the Paulson Brothers real cheap and he will give it to me for my birthday and I  will say, oh, did I want one of these?

  Scott

[MKlein]

Can anyone see what is holding the mortar and the bed together?  I don't see anything.
Zulu

 
 

[Cannon Cocker]

but they have tube and bed suspended by the eye.

That particular bed doesn't look to heavy, but if I eye were there eyed still keep my eye on it. 

[GGaskill]

If you look at the news video, there is a lot more chain involved than just that, but it does appear they are using the lift eye rather than wrapping the strap around the barrel.

[MKlein]

Maybe that is what happened to the Fort Moultrie Mortar, it is lugless.
 

 
Or a sharpshooter shot it off foiling the union from being able to move the mortar.