Author Topic: 45Lc VS 45-70 (Read 2493 times)

northkid · « **on:** February 04, 2014, 10:02:47 AM »

You guys that shoot 45LC what is your take on it verse the 45-70. Both when you can run pretty heavy slugs out if you need to. The 45Lc in the handi should thump anything in North America pretty good.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #1 on:** February 04, 2014, 10:16:16 AM »

hand gun compatible ammo to me is what the 45lc has going for it

other wise choose the 45-70...i like it best
my 45colt is now 454cassul....and it caused me to HAVE to buy another handgun

and speaking of longgun shortgun with matching ammo
i like my 44 mag ans 357 handguns better

petemi · « **Reply #2 on:** February 04, 2014, 10:53:27 AM »

I have both in Handis. Two .45-70s and one .45LC. My greatest uncontrollable factor here is range. I never know where a target will appear. The Colt just can't do it. It's fine to perhaps 200 yards, but sometimes I've gotta go over three. No, the '70s ain't point blank, but I've shot them enough to have a pretty good idea what holdover should be. You have to know that 99.9% of my hunting and shooting is here at home, so I have a pretty good idea of distances and holdover. A lot of times I'll take out a .45-70 just to try a pigeon or starling at 300 or so. Most times I miss, but I learn.

I did blow up a couple of crows not too long ago at long range one each with a .45-70 and .38-55. That's what it takes...trial and error. I would think that if I took the time to shoot the .45 I could learn its rainbow too, but I'm lazy and like it where it is.

Quote from: 45-70.gov on February 04, 2014, 10:16:16 AM

hand gun compatible ammo to me is what the 45lc has going for it

About twenty or twenty five years ago a friend of mine who owns a Sporting Goods Store had a pair of matched .45-70 revolvers. They were huge. I never asked or knew what became of them. About a year ago, I met Kevin Erickson, Luce County Sheriff at a local gun show. You've got to understand Kevin is a long range handgun expert. I asked him if he knew who bought them. He said a buddy of his bought one. I asked if he ever shot it. He replied "Yes ONCE." 'Nuff said.

Pete

RPRNY · « **Reply #3 on:** February 04, 2014, 10:54:41 AM »

45 LC nor 454 Casull have anything like the throw weight of the 45-70. I shoot 380 grs paper patched slicks over black powder in the Casull but that's with 40 grs of black. While modern brass makes 70 grs a tight fit with 405 grs and above ion 45-70, I think that clearly explains the difference.

Having said that, 2200 fps with the 250 grs FTX over H110 with the 454 will take care of anything in the lower 48 out to 100 yards.

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk 2

tacklebury · « **Reply #4 on:** February 04, 2014, 10:55:58 AM »

Handgun compatibility for a pair is #1 for the colt. Other than that, the .45-70 can shoot from a 300 to 750 gr. bullet and the colt from a 185 to a 325 or so bullet. I think if you want to shoot past 100 yards or take game larger than black bear, the .45-70 gives that flexibility. With the 22" barrel, the .45-70 is still a bit heavier, so carry wise the colt wins too. I love em both and won't part with either any time soon.

HWB13 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 04, 2014, 10:59:43 AM »

Quote from: northkid on February 04, 2014, 10:02:47 AM

The 45Lc in the handi should thump anything in North America pretty good.

Not sure I could buy this one. With any factory load you would be pushing it with anything larger than a whitetail. In some states the 45 LC isn't even a legal handgun load. Was looking at my Classic Carbine for my father to use on our bear hunt this fall. I felt it was right on the edge,(with +P ammo) and he didn't feel comfortable with it. I don't know anyone that would have the same questions about the 45-70.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #6 on:** February 04, 2014, 11:01:17 AM »

To me they don't overlap at all.

The 45-70 handles heavier slugs much better because its got the case capacity. The light bullets in the 45-70 are a heavier bullet for the LC.

I have used both for many years, for me here on the east coast the 45Colt was a natural... I didn't need the HP from the common ''go to'' deer calibers. I was hunting smaller plots of land, many time insight of houses. Perfectly safe and legal, just a Lil unnerving touching off a '06 in sight of a family enjoying morning tea. SO I turned to the 357Mag and 45Colt. In the late '80's I switched to primarily 357Maxi and 45LC. Our permits are numerous. I can shoot four deer with the bow, two with a shotgun, two more with a rifle and one more with a muzzle loader. If I get the non lottery tags that's a couple more... If I hunt in certain areas I really don't have a limit... when I shoot one and turn in a tag I get another... So what I'm saying is its a good thing I reload as my guns got a work out!

CW

In upstate NY, eastern PA and Northern VT the opportunities for longer ranges where common. But so was the thick stuff and the thick stuff is where I always found deer and bears. I used the H&R 45-70 on more than a few of those hunts. So did a few others in our parties as I used it as a rain gun/extra rifle.

gendoc · « **Reply #7 on:** February 04, 2014, 11:06:16 AM »

from my angle... which others will not agree.........

there is no comparison between tha 2

they both have there need and neither are similar @ maximum ability which is where I stand.

Bob Riebe · « **Reply #8 on:** February 04, 2014, 11:26:08 AM »

.45 Colt is .451 usually.

.45-70 is .458 usually.

One was created for handguns and the other for rifles, there is no real overlap.

petemi · « **Reply #9 on:** February 04, 2014, 11:47:22 AM »

John, I couldn't have said it better. Thank you.

Pete

Doublebass73 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 04, 2014, 11:56:01 AM »

Quote from: HWB13 on February 04, 2014, 10:59:43 AM

Quote from: northkid on February 04, 2014, 10:02:47 AM
The 45Lc in the handi should thump anything in North America pretty good.

Not sure I could buy this one. With any factory load you would be pushing it with anything larger than a whitetail. In some states the 45 LC isn't even a legal handgun load. Was looking at my Classic Carbine for my father to use on our bear hunt this fall. I felt it was right on the edge,(with +P ammo) and he didn't feel comfortable with it. I don't know anyone that would have the same questions about the 45-70.

With standard pressure ammo I'd agree but with +P I have to disagree. Look at Buffalo Bore's website. A 325 grain +P runs roughly 1700 fps from a 20" rifle barrel. That's 2000 foot pounds of energy, real close to a trapdoor 45-70 which has taken everything in North America.
2000 foot pounds of energy with a 45 cal bullet will take a moose or a buffalo within reasonable range.

That being said, these two great calibers really don't belong in the same comparison. A really hot 45 Colt from a rifle barely equals a factory 45-70 which if you handload turns into a complete beast.

petemi · « **Reply #11 on:** February 04, 2014, 01:28:15 PM »

We go round and round with these caliber comparisons. "Is this the same, similar to or better than that? And this other to that other." etc., etc. Why do many of us keep a great assortment of guns to choose from? Everyone of us knows all we really need is a .22, a 12 ga. and a .30-06?.....I mean everyone knows that

I have lots of different calibers. Many overlap in their usage. For example, with the exception of a very few, most would kill a deer at forty yards. No, they're not all my deer rifles. All my deer rifles aren't small game rifles...some of my small game rifles are deer rifles too. It all boils down to what I want to use and what I think will work best for that day's hunt.

Each caliber....I don't care which you want to pick...has great advantages and shortcomings....that's why there are so many choices.......above and beyond the .22, 12 ga. and .30-06.

Pete

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #12 on:** February 04, 2014, 01:33:50 PM »

Right on Pete. That is why I sold my 06....Now I need to replace it and the .44 with several different rifles. one of which will be a .45, And then a Ruger Blackhawk to go with it. And get one of my hornets re bored and chambered in .327 magnum.

kc5gxc · « **Reply #13 on:** February 04, 2014, 01:50:26 PM »

I wud say that my 45 Colt carbine is kinda like a 45-70 short ! ha ha

petemi · « **Reply #14 on:** February 04, 2014, 02:00:27 PM »

Bob, buddy, you're a sick puppy. Geeze...... I don't know...perhaps you're OK. For some reason this thought about a Blackhawk to go with my .45 and another to go with my .32-20s keeps popping up. I missed a Ruger .32-20 a while back because I was frugal and I've been kicking my butt ever since. What do you think I'd enjoy more, owning and shooting the revolver or being buried with the cash?

Quote from: kc5gxc on February 04, 2014, 01:50:26 PM

I wud say that my 45 Colt carbine is kinda like a 45-70 short ! ha ha

That's Ok, cause I think of my .38-55 as a Maxi Long Rifle

Pete

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #15 on:** February 04, 2014, 02:21:38 PM »

Yea Pete just a mite sick, I already have a .357 Maximum Blackhawk with a handi, And a .327 magnum Blackhawk and a barrel to rebore, I had a pair in .44 but didn't like the pistol, So I figured a .45 Colt pair would be next.

BTW I also have another (or two) .357 magnums, Don't have a Blackhawk but I have a Ruger GP 100 and a security six in .357 so I guess I am good there.

Spanky · « **Reply #16 on:** February 04, 2014, 02:53:15 PM »

Trapdoor 45-70 loads have killed everything... and I mean everything that's killable but a souped up 45LC load is barely capable of taking a whitetail?? Really?? Who comes up with this nonsense. Looks like some people really need to take a look at what the little pipsqueak LC is capable of.

Matter of fact... take a look at Ammoguide and see what they will both do side by side with 300gr. bullets. Be ready for a surprise.

Spanky

jeepmann1948 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 04, 2014, 02:59:10 PM »

I do not have a dog in this hunt because I do no have a 45LC. However I do have a couple of 44 mag's.As gendoc said they all have there place and different applications but...............as handiholics know to well why rationalize owing them?

?? Get at least one of eaach and be Happy Happy
George

northkid · « **Reply #18 on:** February 04, 2014, 03:24:57 PM »

The reason I bring it up about the 45 colt is, I have had a buddy shoot to brown bears with a 45 Long Colt with a 325gr WNFPGC. One went through the shoulder and came out behind the other shoulder never wish recovered. The other one went lengthwise through the bear and never was recovered. And these were all sure at out of lab seven and a half inch barrel 45 Long Colt.

Now you put that same round in a handi what is a capable of doing.

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #19 on:** February 04, 2014, 03:59:33 PM »

Just about anything you want.

Except make a cake........Or bring you a beer.

tacklebury · « **Reply #20 on:** February 04, 2014, 04:11:56 PM »

Quote from: northkid on February 04, 2014, 03:24:57 PM

The reason I bring it up about the 45 colt is, I have had a buddy shoot to brown bears with a 45 Long Colt with a 325gr WNFPGC. One went through the shoulder and came out behind the other shoulder never wish recovered. The other one went lengthwise through the bear and never was recovered. And these were all sure at out of lab seven and a half inch barrel 45 Long Colt.

Now you put that same round in a handi what is a capable of doing.

This is absolutely true and the capabilities of the round are very good. I still like the saying, "bring enough gun". I'm not speaking Magnumitis persay, but we know more about how hydrostatic damage and velocity work and thus the reams of much improved defensive ammo. The one thing you cannot put back in the proverbial tube is being undergunned in a situation. If what I have with me is my .45 Colt and a bear's coming at me, I guarantee you it'll get used and will likely do the job. If I PURPOSEFULLY put myself into a scenario where I am using a weapon which is borderline or just barely adequate when I have a better one, I personally tag that foolish. I love both rounds, but I guarantee if I'm going after Moose or Brown Bear on a hunt, I'm going to have the .45-70 Gov in my hand.

Just my 2cp.

***edit***
Oh, and Bob, here's my Ruger and .45 Colt.

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #21 on:** February 04, 2014, 04:29:53 PM »

Made me break out the Navaho blanket. Here are my Maxes all hanging out, I like your knife too so I had too stick mine in there. It's an older Ontario I was given by a close friend. What you have on that blanket is just what I want.

tacklebury · « **Reply #22 on:** February 04, 2014, 04:32:20 PM »

Mine's an old hickory with a home made brass antislip guard. The sheath is home made also from old leather and has a copper liner to keep from poking when tied to my leg. The holster is home made also and is the top of my Uncle's slouch boots from about 1957.

We reuse most everything.

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #23 on:** February 04, 2014, 04:36:17 PM »

Reuse and repurpose.....Always a good thing in my book. The sheath was made from scrap and stain with boiled down Black walnut husk.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 05, 2014, 04:27:35 AM »

In 1873 the U.S. Army had the 45Colt's revolvers and the 45-70 carbines and rifles.
'Nuff said.

Jimbo47 · « **Reply #25 on:** February 05, 2014, 10:26:18 AM »

I've got both, and the 45-70 can do what the 45LC can do and more. The 45LC is easier to carry and you can carry a sidearm in the same caliber, but as far as head to head competition the 45-70 wins hands down.
You can load the 45-70 down or up, but the 45LC will never be equal to the 45-70.

Spanky · « **Reply #26 on:** February 05, 2014, 10:54:48 AM »

Quote from: Jimbo47 on February 05, 2014, 10:26:18 AM

I've got both, and the 45-70 can do what the 45LC can do and more. The 45LC is easier to carry and you can carry a sidearm in the same caliber, but as far as head to head competition the 45-70 wins hands down.
You can load the 45-70 down or up, but the 45LC will never be equal to the 45-70.

Check out Ammoguide... specifically with 300gr. bullets. There is a laundry list of loads where the 45LC walks all over the 45-70 using half the powder.

Can the 45LC do everything the 45-70 can do?? No way... not even close. Is there some overlap between the two?? Yes. Does the 45LC outshine the 45-70 with some loads?? Yes it does.

Spanky

HWB13 · « **Reply #27 on:** February 05, 2014, 11:20:08 AM »

DB73, The +P ammo I had was not rated as high as the Buffalo Bore ammo. If I had that I would have used it.

Jimbo47 · « **Reply #28 on:** February 05, 2014, 12:31:23 PM »

Quote from: Spanky on February 05, 2014, 10:54:48 AM

Quote from: Jimbo47 on February 05, 2014, 10:26:18 AM
I've got both, and the 45-70 can do what the 45LC can do and more. The 45LC is easier to carry and you can carry a sidearm in the same caliber, but as far as head to head competition the 45-70 wins hands down.
You can load the 45-70 down or up, but the 45LC will never be equal to the 45-70.

Check out Ammoguide... specifically with 300gr. bullets. There is a laundry list of loads where the 45LC walks all over the 45-70 using half the powder. Can the 45LC do everything the 45-70 can do?? No way... not even close. Is there some overlap between the two?? Yes. Does the 45LC outshine the 45-70 with some loads?? Yes it does.

Spanky

No argument here as I see your point, and it's a fact that you can load the 45-70 down to 45LC levels but you obviously can't load the 45LC up to 45-70 levels which was my point, so there really isn't a comparison since the 45-70 will leave the 45 LC in the dust.

petemi · « **Reply #29 on:** February 05, 2014, 12:36:51 PM »

Spanky, and everyone, They're two different calibers each with its own characteristics. Yes they overlap in many places, but they are still not the same. I have both and I am happy with that. There is no such thing as this caliber is better than that. As was said long ago...beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You may have something that you love and swear by, and it may not suit my wants or needs. I have both and do not expect the .45LC to accomplish what I can do with the .45-70, but I have great respect for it doing what it does best. It is a dead nuts on shooter at 150 yards as the .45-70 is at 300. The funny thing is, the last two deer I shot were close enough to take with a Daisy Red Ryder....I've got one of those too.

Pete