Author Topic: Question for CCW permit holders  (Read 721 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Conan The Librarian

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4494
  • McDonalds. Blecch!
Question for CCW permit holders
« on: February 06, 2014, 09:40:28 AM »
I haven't had the CCW training. I am curious about something, though. In the training do they make it clear that having a gun on your person is not much of a defense against someone who is planning to attack you? I have talked with a few CCW permit holders and they seemed to have an over estimation of how much protection a gun affords.

Offline FPH

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2290
Re: Question for CCW permit holders
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2014, 09:48:47 AM »
I was taught that you need to keep at the very minimum a 15' bubble around you, as an attacker can close ground very quickly( the instructor deminstrated this).  I was also taught to be prepared to use your weapon if you intercede in a conflict.  The fact that you are carrying means nothing unless you are proficient with the weapon and are prepared to use lethal force.

Offline jhm

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3169
Re: Question for CCW permit holders
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2014, 10:03:40 AM »
     Having a weapon doesn't gurantee you will be the victor, It does however lower the chanch you will be a survivor if you are willing and able to go to the next step.   Jim   Next step is use it!

Offline magooch

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6644
Re: Question for CCW permit holders
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2014, 10:36:55 AM »
     Having a weapon doesn't gurantee you will be the victor, It does however lower the chanch you will be a survivor if you are willing and able to go to the next step.   Jim   Next step is use it!


Wait; how does having a weapon (handgun) lower your chance of being a survivor?
Swingem

Offline magooch

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6644
Re: Question for CCW permit holders
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2014, 10:43:49 AM »
On the main point, my state does not require training to obtain a concealed pistol permit.  Common sense and instinct should dictate that the mere possession of a hidden weapon doesn't mean that you can get away with ignoring your surroundings and get careless.  The last thing I want to do is find myself in a situation where I have to draw my weapon.  I normally avoid environments that don't feel, or look right, but these days, you never know.


I had an interesting conversation with a fellow a few days ago who told me about an experience he had where his vehicle got vandalized while it was parked nearby where he was fishing.  He heard a commotion, but didn't respond quick enough to catch the perps.  He called 911 and a couple hours later a Sheriff's deputy showed up.  Of course there was nothing the deputy could do, but make out a report.  The victim made an offhand comment to the deputy that he was thinking about setting up an observation point back in the brush where he could watch his vehicle along with his trusty rifle.  Well, that didn't set well with the deputy at all and he said he would have to mention that in his report.  I guess the lesson is to report just the facts and keep your thoughts to yourself.
Swingem

Offline Spirithawk

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2495
  • Gender: Male
Re: Question for CCW permit holders
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2014, 07:05:31 AM »
Some folks seem to think that when someone makes the choice to carry that's the answer to everything. Far from it! Carrying is just one small part of defending yourself. Always being aware of your surroundings and always being aware of the law is equally as important as having a firearm. Arguably even more important because if you are aware of a possible threat, before it actually can become one, and thus avoid it, you have used your most important weapon....your brain! Knowing the laws govenring both self defense and carrying goes  a long ways in keeping you from changing from being a law abiding citizen protecting yourself to becoming seen instead as the criminal. Laws change from county to county, from one city or township to another, and from state to state and you had best know what they are where ever you are. When I took the class the instructor made it very clear that unless you could percieve the threat, and draw in time to meet the threat, your handgun wasn't of much use to you and may even get taken and your own weapon turned against you. I tailor my mode of dress and method of carry to where I can easily and quickly access my firearm if needed. To me that is just common sense! So is seeing a threat coming before it materializes. In my day it was simply called Street Smarts!

Offline SHOOTALL

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23836
Re: Question for CCW permit holders
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2014, 07:19:23 AM »
I have taken several classes involved with (1) CCW pre permit , (2) personal protection training/teaching class and other similar type classes. The CCW instructor and one of the PP instructors both open the class with if someone want to harm you and they choose both time and place you will be dead most likely. They then proceeded to tell us that CCW and personal protection was a life style change. First you have to realize to survive a gun fight is to win. ANY way to survive is OK. So if you can avoid going to places that has a history of violence then don't go. If you have to go then prepare. Vary your route and time. Yes it is a life style change. Then as mentioned you pay attention. Who looks like a threat , what looks like a threat , what routes offer cover , what routes offer escape , which offer both,  are you alone , when will the personality of the area change , will darkness catch me there , the list goes on. The biggest change is you start thinking survival all the time. It does not need to rule your life but you should develop a thought process that includes your safety.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Lost Oki

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 182
Re: Question for CCW permit holders
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2014, 02:41:54 PM »
Similar to others, I have attended several classes and one thing was consistent (as pointed out by others).  Always avoid the use of a firearm if you can.  If they want to hurt you, their going to unless they are dumb enough to start 30 feet or more away.  Don't pull your weapon to scare someone, only time it comes out is when you are dead serious about pulling the trigger.  The one thing that stuck in my mind was the local judge that we talked to.
He was very clear - 1.  If there are two people in my court, their are two stories and I am going to have to sort it out.  If there's one, makes it a whole lot easier to sort.  2.  Never assume the cops are your friend.  Tell them you were afraid for your life and you defended yourself, and then ask for an attorney.  Do not, under any circumstance give them more info.  This was also confirmed by a friend who has 30 yrs law enforcement experience.  What we also experienced in training.  Unless you are very well trained, the bad guy can cover 15 feet faster than you can react, draw and fire.  Even if I could, I would never open carry.  If I am armed, I know, the wife knows and thats more than enough.  Just my two cents worth.

Offline Land_Owner

  • Global Moderator
  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (31)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4530
    • Permission Granted - Land Owner
Re: Question for CCW permit holders
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2014, 12:59:25 AM »
..having a gun on your person is not much of a defense against someone who is planning to attack you...

You can't defend against someone's thoughts...

Offline ironglow

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31300
  • Gender: Male
Re: Question for CCW permit holders
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2014, 01:07:14 AM »
Right Land Owner, the only time a persons thoughts can be used to hurt him, is when he is accused of a "hate crime" or "hate speech".
   ...And those "thoughts" can get him prison time even if the judge only thinks he thought them!  :o :P



   Makes good, Liberal sense, doesn't it !
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Mikey

  • GBO Supporter
  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8734
Re: Question for CCW permit holders
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2014, 02:23:06 AM »
It's not his 'thoughts' that will get you, it is the brick in his hand that will crush your skull.  If you make yourself out to be a target with the wrong impression that you are invincible because you are packin', you are gonna get it and unless you have the combat experience to set yourself up as a hardened target (that he/they do not know about) and bust his ambush, you are gonna get it.
 
Not one of the ccw classes I have had over the last 40 years has ever taught anything about defending yourself on the street or how to be aware of your surroundings or what to do if you think you might get into a tight spot.  Everything I learned about ambushes and busting a ambush I learned in combat.  I never follow another man's tracks and I always walk about 25-50m off a trail - that way you never trip any explosive triggers (trip wires) or walk into a ambush or a bad guy's lane of fire, and you catch him by coming up behind him.  On the street it's different because you can usually spot a ambush being set up or one that is set up by being aware of your surroundings and watching how people behave and knowing what to look for or watch out for, but you are not invincible simply because you are packin'. 
 
In the war it was our job to bust up ambushes before the other guy could spring them.  It is not our job to do that on the street unless you are a cop.  If you are carrying you have to be cautious not to take the offensive unless you are convinced you are about to be attacked.  You really need to consider the use of 'avoidance movements', which take you out of harms way and allow you to alert the police to a possible ambush/potential attack.  You only have that pistol with you to 'defend' yourself, not to go out busting up individuals or groups of people who look like muggers waiting to attack someone AND if you place yourself in the position where you have to defend yourself then you are liable to get it from both ends - the muggers and the courts later on. 
 
Probably the best thing you can do these days, if you spot some suspicious activity that might indicate a potential ambush (like 2-3 or more 'guys' hanging around inside a parking garage or in the shadows of a mall/supermarket parking lot, or around the shadowed or closed storefront, a couple of younger girls hanging around the entrance to stores, movie theaters, etc.,) is call the cops.  If the 911 operator asks you why you think someone is setting up a mugging or a attack on a innocent victim, tell her you saw a knife in one of their hands or that it looks like someone is trying to get a grip on a gun in his/her pocket.  Don't bother trying to explain too much to a 911 operator, they really aren't very good at the details - just say what you have to say to get the cops there quickly so you don't have to pull a gun to defend yourself.  imo.

Offline SHOOTALL

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23836
Re: Question for CCW permit holders
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2014, 06:07:10 AM »
I think some lose the fact that those who attack you other than a crime of passion or revenge are attacks by predators and they will be looking for an easy target in most cases or they have singled you out to make an example of in front of a crowd. So your body language will often invite an attack or ward one off. Don't look like a victim or a easy mark. DON"T ACT NERVOUS. Don't go places where you could be attacked like bad bars etc.   
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Spirithawk

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2495
  • Gender: Male
Re: Question for CCW permit holders
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2014, 09:39:33 AM »
This may sound funny but I think being a life long hunter gives a person a slight edge (IF) they use those skills always. A true hunter looks constantly for anything out of place such as movement where there shouldn't be movement. A hunter is always listening for the slightest sound of a rustle or footstep. A hunter is always ready for a quick shot if need be, yet at the same time, and often in an instant, has to make the decisions of 1) What my target is 2) Is it something I'm really sure I want to shoot 3) What, or who, might be struck should I miss or the bullet pass through my intended target. All things that should apply in a self defense situation too. Then too a hunter is a predator and  if you apply that to self defense....you need to be a better predator than any hunting you. Your instincts need to be sharper than their's. That in no way means you walk around paranoid, nor looking to start trouble. You are hunting to see it coming and thus avoid it if you can by always being alert. That is something that just comes natural to most who hunt a lot. Make sense?

Offline SHOOTALL

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23836
Re: Question for CCW permit holders
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2014, 09:55:08 AM »
That is a fair statement , predator hunting.
 
If ya can see it ya can hit it !