A positive post that includes both Harley-Davidson and the Chinese

[guzzijohn]

It just occurred to me today that it has been about 10 years since I test rode a V-Rod. This ride was part of a promotion by H-D that if you test rode a V-Rod you could pick $50 of free goodies off the floor. I chose two pairs of leather gloves. One pair was more like a leather dress gloves and the other was more of a riding glove with a palm gel insert and a zippered back to adjust tightness and seal. The dress pair I use daily in cold weather driving to and from work, etc. The other pair I have used a lot as riding gloves and as light work gloves around my place. They are both labeled as H-D and made in China. After 10 years they are both in very good condition. Just saying not everything from China is junk. The H-D label is discrete enough that you would have to steal them to notice. Not dissing H-D, just not my style.
GuzziJohn

[Ranger99]

fwiw their branded boots and
such are of chinese origin also.
harder and harder to find any
american company that doesn't
offer far eastern goods anymore.
henry and redding are the only
exceptions i can think of at the moment.

[Dee]

Only about 65% of a HD is American made. The other 35% is Japanese. So, their "American made" claim is just a "claim".

[pastorp]

Well I would guess with a handle like guzzijohn that HD would not be your style.  but I agree that some Chinese products are getting better. I ordered a kitchen knife from Costco and it turned out to be made in china. It's my favorite.

[Dee]

I agree. I, for the first time a couple years ago, bought a Honda vehicle.

[Mikey]

I think I'm to the point of not really caring who makes what, as long as it is made to American manufacturing standards.  You almost cannot blame businesses for taking it overseas where it costs less and they don't have either the unions or the federal government to deal with.
 
There is a major difference between what is made somewhere else to American manufacturing standards and what is made to local (over there local) standards.  The same folk who make Toyotas and Hondas and the like to American safety standards drop the more expensive safety standards (like safety glass, seat belts, air bags, yada and yada) when they sell the same product outside the US - anyone who has ridden in a Kimchi cab in Korea or a cab in Bangkok or Saigon knows what I'm talking about. 
 
Hey, the Chinese (Norinco specifically) have a long history of firearms manufacturing.  When they started making the 1911A1s and other firearms for the American market they had to ramp up the quality of the materials they used so these products would sell over here.  I purchased a number of their firearms back in the late 80s and early 90s and they are still going strong today.  If some American firm wants to begin producing Norinco made firearms, including a re-designed American made Tokarev, I'llbreak out the old checkbook and get some new toys. 
 
And let's not forget the other non-American gun makers.  I really appreciate my Walthers and have found every one I have gotten my hands on to be a quality piece.  The same with my Berettas.  One of the last handguns I purchased was a Taurus PT1911 in 38 Super - for less than $400 from CDNN and this piece shoots better than any of the previous Colt made 38 Supers I owned.  Now, willsomeone please tell me why the hell I need to spend $1,200 and wait as long a 12 months for a Colt 38 Super that does not shoot any more accurately than they did 25 years ago when I can get a quality piece like the Taurus for 1/3rd the price of the Colt. 
 
I have seen a lot of American made junk, including a whole slew of general motors vehicles I have owned over the last 30 years, so it isn't a matter of 'It's got to be American' as much as (for me) it must be made to American standards.    So I say.
 
 

[Conan The Librarian]

GuzziJohn (and others except Mikey),
 
Do you really still perceive that Chinese manufacturing is generally inferior? I was surprised to see that such a perception still exists. Yes, they make a lot of cheap stuff because they cover all price points, but some of the highest quality products in the world are made in China now, and have been for at least 20 years. This reminds me of the old "made in Japan" stigma from when I was a kid. It persisted well past the period where companies like Honda and Toyota and all of the high end electronics companies had taken a domonant role in world manufacturing, most of the old high end American electronics companies were out of business, and Japan was broadly recognized a leading innovator and supplier to the world.
 
 

[guzzijohn]

I think Chinese manufacturing is very inconsistent and that may be for many reasons. Cessna had to learn the hard way with the Chinese built Skycatcher light airplane which they are losing their shirt over. Cessna's problems appeared to be due to not really understanding how the Chinese do business before Cessna jumped in head first and Cessna did not expect the strong negative customer reaction to a Chines built plane, deserved or not.
Moto Guzzi (Italian) although somewhat better now have always had inconsistent quality control. You can buy two new Guzzis sitting next to each other and one is bound to be a great running and reliable bike and the other you will want to push off a cliff after shooting it a few times. It is not just the Chinese.
GuzziJohn

[Conan The Librarian]

GuzziJohn,
 
I think you're painting with too broad a brush. Manufacturing in all countries is inconsistent. China makes some of the best products in the world. Most smart phones, for example, are made in China with some of the more high tech parts built in Japan. The consistency and excellence is nearly perfect among the higher end products like the iphones and google androids. I work with manufacturers and every one I know is happy with their China operations except the ones that made the mistake of not getting good project managers that know how to get things done in China. We're far past this idea of manufacturing locale as being important to quality.
 
The popular perceptions of how manufacturing works puzzle me. The US is a huge manufacturing and export country. And a lot of the jobs that have been chasing poverty, like automotive assembly, are returning to the US because modern automated plants can do it better faster cheaper than the logistically complex and expensive methods that take advantage of cheap labor abroad. Cheap labor abroad is not the advantage it once was.
 
That is really to bad about GootSee quality. It's one of those companies I've always wanted to see succeed. They make bikes that are more in line with my thinking of what a motorcycle should be (i.e. A Goldwing Aspencade horrifies me, as do the big BMW touring bikes. Aesthetic monstrosities as far as I'm concerned.) Anyway, seems like you got one of the good ones, and that's what counts.

[BBF]

I don't know where the 6 speed Auto tranny came from in the 2012 Cruz, it SUCKS big time.
 
 
Oops Off topic

[Conan The Librarian]

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2011/06/impressive-new-six-speed-transmission-heading-to-2012-gm-cars.html
 
BBF, I guess "impressive" is not the same as "good". Too bad you're having trouble with it. Do you know if they have any programming changes that can make it work better?

[BBF]

No I don't. I've been told by the dealer that all of the GM products with that transmission had/have complaints.
 
The lower gears are the pitas. Both shifting  going up or down. Once you get into 4th the shifting is smoother. The other aggravation comes when the tranny hangs on to the 5th much longer then needed before going into the 6th.
 
My Son is in a Chrysler Dealership as Sales Mng. He tells me some of the new models have
 E I G H T  gears.
 
I don't even want to think what a repair for one of those monstrosities would cost. 

[Swampman]

I care....That's why I wear Diamond Gusset Jeans and try to find American Made when I can.  It has nothing to do with quality.  I hate commies.

[Merle]

I think I'm to the point of not really caring who makes what, as long as it is made to American manufacturing standards.  You almost cannot blame businesses for taking it overseas where it costs less and they don't have either the unions or the federal government to deal with.
 
There is a major difference between what is made somewhere else to American manufacturing standards and what is made to local (over there local) standards.  The same folk who make Toyotas and Hondas and the like to American safety standards drop the more expensive safety standards (like safety glass, seat belts, air bags, yada and yada) when they sell the same product outside the US - anyone who has ridden in a Kimchi cab in Korea or a cab in Bangkok or Saigon knows what I'm talking about. 
 
Hey, the Chinese (Norinco specifically) have a long history of firearms manufacturing.  When they started making the 1911A1s and other firearms for the American market they had to ramp up the quality of the materials they used so these products would sell over here.  I purchased a number of their firearms back in the late 80s and early 90s and they are still going strong today.  If some American firm wants to begin producing Norinco made firearms, including a re-designed American made Tokarev, I'llbreak out the old checkbook and get some new toys. 
 
And let's not forget the other non-American gun makers.  I really appreciate my Walthers and have found every one I have gotten my hands on to be a quality piece.  The same with my Berettas.  One of the last handguns I purchased was a Taurus PT1911 in 38 Super - for less than $400 from CDNN and this piece shoots better than any of the previous Colt made 38 Supers I owned.  Now, willsomeone please tell me why the hell I need to spend $1,200 and wait as long a 12 months for a Colt 38 Super that does not shoot any more accurately than they did 25 years ago when I can get a quality piece like the Taurus for 1/3rd the price of the Colt. 
 
I have seen a lot of American made junk, including a whole slew of general motors vehicles I have owned over the last 30 years, so it isn't a matter of 'It's got to be American' as much as (for me) it must be made to American standards.    So I say.

That's all true, but I still have a problem with sending American jobs overseas.

[Merle]

GuzziJohn (and others except Mikey),
 
Do you really still perceive that Chinese manufacturing is generally inferior? I was surprised to see that such a perception still exists. Yes, they make a lot of cheap stuff because they cover all price points, but some of the highest quality products in the world are made in China now, and have been for at least 20 years. This reminds me of the old "made in Japan" stigma from when I was a kid. It persisted well past the period where companies like Honda and Toyota and all of the high end electronics companies had taken a domonant role in world manufacturing, most of the old high end American electronics companies were out of business, and Japan was broadly recognized a leading innovator and supplier to the world.

Yep, and we are now totally at their mercy. We buy what they are willing to sell us, at the price they dictate. 

[Merle]

I care....That's why I wear Diamond Gusset Jeans and try to find American Made when I can.  It has nothing to do with quality.  I hate commies.

I didn't really start hating commies until my first trip to Viet Nam. I've never stopped.

[goodshot]

    Merle , that wouldn't happen to have been in the 60's or 70's would it?
    We have taught them how to take our money and we have warred enough with others that we have taught them how to defeat us.
  The only thing that will count in 100 years is what we have done with Christ.
 Maranatha

[Merle]

    Merle , that wouldn't happen to have been in the 60's or 70's would it?
    We have taught them how to take our money and we have warred enough with others that we have taught them how to defeat us.
  The only thing that will count in 100 years is what we have done with Christ.
 Maranatha

You are spot on - it was the late 60's. But I never forget.