Author Topic: What's The Attraction? (Read 4280 times)

Dee · « **on:** February 08, 2014, 02:47:59 AM »

Before anyone gets all wired up, this isn't a Handy Rifle bashing thread, it's a question I've had for several years. To begin with I bought two brand new Handy Rifles at an auction several years ago. One in 45-70 and one in 223.
The 45-70 was a so-so shooter with factory, or reloaded ammo. The 223 was pathetic with either, and I have been workin up reloads for 223s since the early 70s, right into the present.
So the question with all due respect is: Given my "personal experience", and the "seemingly endless" problems with'em I read about here, from accuracy, to misfires, to ejectors, to barrel crowns, well, you get the picture to my question. Their problems seem to be a "given" out of the box.
A single shot shotgun is a reminder of my youth, and is appealing as a squirrel gun, as is a single shot 22, but the myriad of out of the box problems a turnoff.
Enlighten me on its attraction.

handirandy · « **Reply #1 on:** February 08, 2014, 03:00:23 AM »

its the challenge of taking a middle of the road product and attempting to an excellent product out of it. It gives us something to tinker with, modify, or customize that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Parts are relatively inexpensive. Single shots are just cool. Single shots make any hunter more acutely aware of one shot-one kill. And last but not least, and I am not trying to be a smart +++ here, if it doesn't fit your style do something different. Handi owners choose to be Handi owners because we want to be Handi owners. And my Buffalo Classic 45-70, after a little tweaking will hit a pop can @ 300 yds if I do my part.

Jimbo47 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 08, 2014, 03:41:59 AM »

Handi rifles aren't for everyone, and that's about as simple an explaination as I can think of.
Some folks like the idea of being able to take a rifle that isn't all that expensive and tinker with it making it shoot better than a lot of guns that shoot well out of the box and cost three times as much as their Handi.
Trying to convert someone who doesn't want to be converted is fruitless, and we are basically a sick bunch of folks here and are frequently refered to as Handiholics, so you are one of the lucky ones, that there is still hope for.
You can always advertise your Handi's that you have no personal attachment to here on the classifieds and part them out and easily get your investment back, or you could spend a lot of your time reading the faq's at the top of the page, start tinkering, and then find yourself addicted just like the rest of us, and the first sign of symptoms is when you start to ask "What's the Attraction?"

je265 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 08, 2014, 03:49:41 AM »

I guess I've been lucky because I've had different luck with my Handi-rifles. I'm probably different than a lot of people in that I don't customize anything and don't like to tinker with stuff. I like my Handi-rifles because they get the job done and I don't worry about using them in bad weather or if I bang the around in the woods or hauling them up a tree. With three kids I like that I've taught them on a 22 sportster and the same mechanics transfer to a shotgun for spring turkey or squirrel hunting and into the deer woods. I bought a youth superlight in .223 that my daughter used to kill her first deer with last fall and after deer season I switched the stock out to an adult stock which I've been using for a coyote gun. This 223 is a newer one with an extractor and shoots good with factory ammo. If I had the constant issues that I've read about here I probably wouldn't have any though because it's not my nature to fiddle with things unless it's simple like swapping out a stock. It's probably like anything else that people don't say much when things are going good but as soon as they have a problem they get vocal, the squeaky wheel theory I guess. Just my 2cents. Jim

northkid · « **Reply #4 on:** February 08, 2014, 04:31:55 AM »

Witha little bits of skillz ya can shoot a nats ass off a match at a 100 yards, for an 1/8 of one of them fancy rifles.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #5 on:** February 08, 2014, 04:55:03 AM »

Well old friend, that's an easy question for me!

Back in the late 80's I think it was, I had one Handi. It was a 30-30 that I sent back to the factory and had a 45-70 barrel fitted to. It always shot fine.

The feller I hunt with also had one; in 308. It's accuracy gradually went bad and he gave it to me to check out. I knew little about Handies at the time but was on the H&R/Handi Rifle Newsgroup and was directed to GBO by Andy (MSP Ret.). Once here and after a lot of reading, PM'ing with Tim and working on the rifle I discovered the problem and the rifle is now again a good shooter. I also discovered I like tinkering with the rifles and get satisfaction out of making one live up to it's potential. Reason #1!

Reason #2: Cart-a-ges is like wimmins! They come in all different sizes and shapes!

And, like I was with wimmins when I was a young buck, I enjoy brief flirtations with as many different cartridges as I can get my hands on. I'll get the hots for one, play with it for a while, then something else will catch my eye and I'll move on to the new obsession!

The Handi makes it possible for me to 'speriment with many more different cartridges then would otherwise be financially possible were I have to buy Remington's, Winchesters and the like. Take my 50-140 for example. Even after sending it off for reboreing, rifling and chambering, it was less expensive then buying a 50-140/500 NE the shelf; even IF I could find one on a shelf!

Off the top of my head I can think of several more cartridges I want to try: 25-35, 32-20/327, 9.3x62, 9.3x74R, & 445 Mag! And I'm sure there are others!

AtlLaw · « **Reply #6 on:** February 08, 2014, 04:59:42 AM »

17 Hornet!

jeepmann1948 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 08, 2014, 05:01:15 AM »

Very well said Richard !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Every word is true!
George

Larry in SD · « **Reply #8 on:** February 08, 2014, 05:12:42 AM »

Handi's are not the only guns built these days that require some tinkering to get them to shoot to their potential !

In 1982 I started shooting & hunting with T/C Contender Handguns. That has also carried over to T/C Encore Rifles. The basic difference T/C tells you that their Contender Barrels will fit on their Contender Frames and their Encore Barrels will fit on their Encore Frames. While generally that is true it is not cast in stone as I have had Contender Barrels that would not lock up on certain frames without either stoning or replacing the locking bolts in the barrel.

H&R on the other hand tells you that to get extra barrels you must send the receiver in to H&R to have the new barrel fitted to that particular receiver. Yes I am fully aware that some do interchange and from the FAQ's find the methods for fitting the barrels to the receivers. However H&R is stating up front that it is not a one size fits all.

As per the accuracy, I have had to recrown several T/C Barrels over the years due to messed up factory crowns. I have went through several different bedding techniques with Encore Forends to wring the best accuracy out of them. There have been issues with T/C Barrels having excessive headspace and when sent to T/C returned with a note that they were within spec.

I have owned a total of 3 Handi Rifles (a .223 Stainless Synthetic, 1 .243 Stainess Synthetic and currently a .25-06 Ultra Rifle) and a .22 LR Sportster. I have not shot the .25-06 as yet but the others shot as well or better than I expected them to. Yes they took a little tinkering but they shot to my expectations. The .243 had an out of round chamber but still shot factory ammo into MOA or less groups at 100 yards from the bench (once I found the right factory load that is). The .223 shooting Winchester / USA White Box 45gr. JHP's shot 3/4 MOA from the bench at 100 yards. If there has been a disappointment it was the .22 LR Sportster, while it was adequately accurate it was not what I was hoping for. But then I never missed a gopher that I could without a doubt blame on the gun.

The bottom line is there are good and bad in every make or model of gun. Yes I have had lemons in other brands also, I tinker with them, if I can not get them to shoot to my satisfaction they get traded off. On one particular Ruger K77/22VBZ the hole in the receiver for the barrel shank and the barrel shank was not straight and the muzzle was off center by almost 3/8" at the muzzle. I had a Remington Model 700 SPS .308 in which the bottom of the grooves in the rifling looked like a gravel road with bad washboard marks in it. I even tried the Tubbs Final Finish Fire Lapping Kit. It helped but it never did turn out like I had hoped so I traded it off.

No Handi Rifles are not for everyone. For what they are they are a solid product at a good value. I for one like the fact that I can have a rifle with a full length barrel but yet the overall dimensions are that of a Bolt Action Carbine.

Larry

twoshooter · « **Reply #9 on:** February 08, 2014, 05:37:35 AM »

Well, I have had my Wheaties this morning, still crappy weather out, so it is a good day for a rant.

I used to think Handi's were a cheap piece of crap rifles, owned by those who could not afford better. That is sometimes the case. But I bought one-- a combo 20 ga / 243 from walmart- on sale for $229. I had a grandson coming along and my wife had had breast cancer and I needed something low recoil, I could load them down and it had a good recoil pad. It shot fair, still kicked a bit much. Then I found this site when someone told me about the barrel program. I sent off for a BC barrel and a 357. Then I saw some deals here and picked up a few extra barrels...... just like any other addiction starts.

The people here are nice, polite and helpful. Most other sites I went to, people were downright arrogant. If you did not have the right brand of gun, if you did not shoot 30K rounds a year, if your shotgun did not cost over $1500 , then you were crap. They were all wanting to "compete" over something, or waiting for the apocalypse, or showing you how to shoot intruders correctly.

There are a few things we all want, like maintaining our Second Amendment rights, freedom to hunt, etc.

There are some things I don't like also. Uncle Sam tried to give me a"black rifle about 44 years ago and almost succeeded. I had to qualify later with one while working for the state in another capacity. I did not like them then- or now. They are butt ugly guns, feel strange, and I do not need a 20 round magazine to kill anything. Mind you- I did not say YOU cannot have one- just that I question your taste in equipment. What is the attraction ?

I have a couple of long range rifles, I can hit a 2 liter soda jug at 500 yards on a good day. I almost never shoot them. I watched some programs on TV where they were shooting Elk at 800 yards. It came to me- what the hell is the purpose of that ? I can dynamite fish also, or shock them- and come up with a lunker. I have to look long and hard to even find somewhere I could shoot , or even SEE 800 yards. These guys were paying through the nose for high dollar gear- rifles, scopes, training programs. Then they hire a guide to "find" them a 390 class Elk somewhere and get set up to kill it from a Half mile away. What is the attraction?

Bow hunters like some of my relatives are just as snobbish- they use the latest in scent technology, they use trail cameras hooked to their home computers and smart phones, they get "notified" when they get a picture for God's sake. They "evaluate" and target individual deer. They "compete" with one another on bringing in the biggest rack. There are now multiple deer farms in the US that are advertising breeding services to "improve" deer genetics- for a price of course. That to me is just farming. What is the attraction?

Even fishing is not immune- I just got my new Bass Pro catalog in. For under $120K (on sale of course), you can have a new Yellowfin boat- complete with GPS, multiple side vision sonar, you name it. Almost every fishing show has become some type of competetion or tournament. You have located the fish electronically, marked waypoints on your GPS to get there, you know how many, how deep, what they bite on in these conditions. I can go to Long John Silver's for $5.99. What is the attraction?

If you can afford the technology, if you can afford the time to train and have professional trainers, if you can have $2000 rifles,and $2000 scopes, $3000 shotguns, lots of travel, electronic monitoring, guide services, -- you can probably bring home a world class animal, or a championship trophy on your wall.

What is YOUR attraction ? What is the use?

When I run on to a guy with a handi now, I see a little differently than I used to: I see an ordinary guy, with ordinary means. I see someone who does not need to have all the bells and whistles. I see someone who is not dependent on all the technology available, and not trying to beat everyone in some "competetion". I see a guy who loves what he is doing, who takes pride in what he can do with what he has, and who does it for himself- not for the accolades of others. I guess in the end that may be the ultimate arrogance- all those other guys are concerned about others- judges, friends, national societies- whatever- for some kind of approval or validation.

I have a Handi. I have a freezer full of venison and a deerloaf in the fridge. I enjoyed my season, and eating it even more. My rifles and shotguns are pleasing to my eye, and a joy to handle. I can do with them whatever I need done. Like they say- "it not you- it is me". And it is- all about ME.
When I run into you and your Handi rifle- I know it is about YOU. I am just fine with that. I find that VERY ATTRACTIVE.

ncloader88 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 08, 2014, 05:44:02 AM »

The thing that first attracted me to the handi's was the price. I was pretty broke, but wanted something to get me in the woods that season. $175 later, I had a .270 with a relatively good scope on it! Now, the thing that keeps me stuck on them is more of a hybrid of price and versatility. There are some entry level bolt rifles that can compare to a new H&R price-wise, but every time you want to shoot a different caliber, you have to spend another $300. With a handi, you can expect to pay between $100-$175 for almost any popular caliber (except for the magnums, but those silly anyway

) and many unpopular calibers are made available. In my opinion, the tinkering is a trade-off. If all you want is one caliber, you may be better off paying $50 extra for an entry level bolt gun. However, if you want to be able to shoot stuff like the 45-70 you mentioned, the handi is your only good option under $500. Other unorthodox options include 357mag, 44mag, 444marlin, and 500s&w. These options have given the handi a lot of attention in pistol-only areas and states with a primitive weapons season. Wildcatting on the handi platform is much easier. Like Jimbo said, handi's aren't for everyone, but there are few rifles that have as much appeal to me and many others who have to "fix" everything they own.

littledog · « **Reply #11 on:** February 08, 2014, 06:06:03 AM »

For me it going back to my youth THE SIMPLE SINGLE SHOT I have been here just short of a year started with two frames and went from there. I have three handi now with a forth on its way. I have less $ in these guns than one my others rifle Price a 45 70 that will shoot a 300grain at 2289 fps. As for accuracy I have put the 357 against rifles that cost 3 times what it did and won every time other than the stock it just as the factory sent it. I built my 45 70 to fit me not every Tom Dick and Jane. There is something special about building a gun working up a load for that gun and having a great hunt with it as a pay day. I love learning and I went from buying and shooting to building tweaking and customizing my firearms for the pure enjoyment of it.

gendoc · « **Reply #12 on:** February 08, 2014, 06:50:21 AM »

I wish we were closer in location, so you could bring your best out and i'd take my 2nd best.
3 shot group @ 100yrds. I could show you tha attraction.
mine is not "out of box" but it puts many others back in there's.
several say, I only hit the target once... but i change background impact for proof

no brag jus fact....
I have many other brand name positive shooter's... but its fun watch'n a $200 rifle
drop'n jaws

my best handi only comes out for pink's

its all about how good you can make'um

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #13 on:** February 08, 2014, 07:30:25 AM »

I just like'em. I've been shooting them for over 12 years now, Been chatting with the fellers hear for a least 10 years I think, So yea I enjoy them, I have been luckyI guess all mine shoot well enuff for me and some shoot great, All of them have taken game. I only have 12 or so now, I am kinda Handi poor. lol.

They can be great shooters.

speedrackin99 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 08, 2014, 07:34:32 AM »

its the tinkin .and then when u getter right its the i did that..I have a $900.00 ruger #1 stainless in 77 mag shot so so ..factory ammo so i applied what i learned from tinkern with my handis and wala shoots sweet .....handi usually less than $300 ......Ruger #1 more than $800 do the math ..... and it has interchangeable barrels not the ruger . Tc barrels r what $400 or better not sure Handis ...$160 ? imo no brainer also its a tool not a show piece but can b

rdlange · « **Reply #15 on:** February 08, 2014, 08:57:19 AM »

I'm old, I'm cheap, I'm a lefty. Mine shoot good and look nice too. The older ones are VERY light and come in my favorite calibers. Good sight and scope options. VERY easy to personalize. Did I mention they shoot good?

Sourdough · « **Reply #16 on:** February 08, 2014, 09:30:14 AM »

I bought my first one, a 30-06, as a spare gun for Moose camp. I added an O-ring under the forearm as recommended by a friend. Found out the more I shot it the better it shot, with factory ammo. So I started working up loads with my type of bullets. It shoots very good out to 700 yards. So I then bought a .223, could not get that gun to shoot worth a darn, so I got rid of it. It had the 1 in 14 twist. Bought an Ultra with the tighter twist, it shot great with factory ammo. All I did to it was add an O-ring. From there they just kind of sprouted in my gun vault. All are good shooters, some better than others. The best are my 30-06s and 25-06.

All my Handis have ejectors, I won't have anything else.

guzzijohn · « **Reply #17 on:** February 08, 2014, 09:59:02 AM »

I understand the attraction to single shots but not to Handis. It appears to me that many here could have bought a really nice rifle for what they put into a Handi to get it to shoot if you count the cost of working up loads. I know on the .243 I had I easily spent as much or more on trying to find a load that would shoot than what I paid for the gun, and no I never got it to shoot. It was my first Handi and with that experience it will be my last unless I can buy a used one that I can shoot first. My Savage that cost me about $100 more than the handi will shoot consistent 3/4 inch groups with anything I feed it and I had to do nothing to it. Same with my highwall but one would expect that from a highwall.
GuzziJohn

Ol BW · « **Reply #18 on:** February 08, 2014, 10:55:57 AM »

I think the squeaky wheel theory definitely applies here. I started with a 30-06 Handi that shot great right out of the box. Since then I have had a 243, 7.62x39, out of the box and 45-70, 357 mag, 22 mag. that I've built with only tweaking to fit the barrel and they all shoot great. I recently bought a second used 30-06 to give as a gift. It had some obvious issues(barrel loose on the frame) that I fixed and it shoots great. I have had three other friends that have them, two 243's and a 270, never had a problem and shoot great out of the box. Maybe we are the luckiest bunch of S.O.B.'s and one lady around but I doubt it.

A great shooting rifle for less than $300 that is easily customized, and cheaply maintained, what's not to like?

BW

Singlebarrel · « **Reply #19 on:** February 08, 2014, 11:42:18 AM »

I have a couple of older Handis that shot well out of the box. My more recent experiences with H & R mirror that of Gussijohn. Inexpensive rifles cost too much, in ammo and frustration.

hpdrifter · « **Reply #20 on:** February 08, 2014, 11:58:34 AM »

I like single shots. Can't afford the really good ones and Handy Rifles are...............handy.

Some folks, self included, like to shoot some guns to work up maximum accuracy.

Some folks like to shoot accurate guns occasionally; like 2 times a year.

Some folks like autoshootamatics; accurate or not.

You pays your money and plays your game, don't sound like Handis are your game.

I've never had a problem until lately.

rmurf · « **Reply #21 on:** February 08, 2014, 12:07:37 PM »

I have always shot single shot guns I love them I started muzzleloading in the 70s it made a better hunter of me I have 410 handi 12ga and 357max I have had 223 243 4570 I loved them all part of my reason is price but I also have 357max contender and 223 contender carbine but they don't shoot any better than my handis there good guns for the money

Dee · « **Reply #22 on:** February 08, 2014, 12:17:52 PM »

Well boys, I got the answers I figured I'd get, both good and bad. I grew up on single shots, but always wanted the repeaters. Now that I've had the repeaters all these years, I've been thinkin about the single shots. I've always liked the compactness of the SSs, just haven't decided if I want to invest the time.

mechanic · « **Reply #23 on:** February 08, 2014, 12:36:32 PM »

It's not that big a deal to get them shooting. Most of mine just require keeping the latch dry and not over torqueing the fore stock. They will never be a 700 with a Shilen barrel but the do the job well.

a4beltfed2000 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 08, 2014, 12:51:44 PM »

I fell in love with the H&Rs back in the day, both rifle and shotguns. I have a number of them not only in my youth but even to this day. I hunt with them, collect them, and tinker with them constantly. My wife rolls her eyes, as I am always "putting something together" my shop has stacks of stocks and bins of barrels, and buckets of brass, not only handi guns but a varity of guns. I like the one shot factor as I dont believe in needing more than one shot for hunting, that being said, I also own a wide variety of guns from handirifles/ sears and robuck guns to big boys 50.cal bmg m2 beltfeds..... I like the tinker factor. I can chuck up a barrel and make it to what I want, add a scope to this or dovetail sights in on that..... For me I live hunting and shooting on a daily basis, sadly probably on a hourly basis, it pretty much runs my daily life, some people like cars, and bikes, others fishing, my give me a piece of blued steel and I'll be smiling all day long. Its one of those things some guys live for....

speedrackin99 · « **Reply #25 on:** February 08, 2014, 01:04:59 PM »

And it pretty sweet when at the range and some with one of those high end rifles walks over to see what ur shootin tight little clover leaves with and he realizes its a CHEAP little handi ...... awsome

mauser98us · « **Reply #26 on:** February 08, 2014, 01:10:09 PM »

Cause the old TC Aristrocrats are so damn expensive now. I have the moderately expensive modern bolt guns, a bunch or Mausers done to what calibers I like.all the levers I need and Remington 700's make me puke.

YRUpunting? · « **Reply #27 on:** February 08, 2014, 01:23:11 PM »

Quote from: Dee on February 08, 2014, 12:17:52 PM

Well boys, I got the answers I figured I'd get, both good and bad. I grew up on single shots, but always wanted the repeaters. Now that I've had the repeaters all these years, I've been thinkin about the single shots. I've always liked the compactness of the SSs, just haven't decided if I want to invest the time.

If you think the Handi's will be too much for you maybe one of the Keystones would suit your fancy.

http://www.keystonesportingarmsllc.com/

Old Syko · « **Reply #28 on:** February 08, 2014, 01:27:28 PM »

The one thing I've noticed about most handi shooters is that they seem to want as many different calibers as they can try. The low cost affords more folks that option that wouldn't otherwise get the chance. I've determined over the years which calibers I have a use for and therefore laid in a lifetime of components for those. No more experimenting with calibers for me. Of the calibers I have chosen I have examples of every action available for each. Because of this the handis just don't ring my bell, even though I have 4 of them, but for those who love them, more power to ya since we're all in this thing together.

The single shot because that's all I need speech doesn't hold water though. I use single shots of other types for what they were designed just as I use semis such as my ARs for what they were designed. Each serves it's purpose and they aren't interchangeable.

Dinny · « **Reply #29 on:** February 08, 2014, 01:34:13 PM »

I got back into them in 2008 when Indiana decided to allow pistol calibers rifles for deer hunting. I had a SB2 frame fitted with 45LC and 357 Mag barrels. Both have been modified and turned into great shooters. I caught the sickness and have had a lot of barrels and complete rifles since then. My kids came along and my tinkering time went away. Now I have the remaining ones shooting well and I don't plan to get anymore.

Thanks, Dinny