Author Topic: 4 1/2" hyd cylinder mortar  (Read 3994 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12609
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Re: 4 1/2" hyd cylinder mortar
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2014, 11:19:19 PM »
I am have the same questions here as DD, but i thought the wall thickness was one caliber of the chamber, not the bore?  If it has a reduced size chamber could it not have a reduced size bore as well?

Yes.  But he doesn't have a reduced chamber.

Offline belt fed frog

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: 4 1/2" hyd cylinder mortar
« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2014, 12:38:39 AM »
Since this design is under discussion  my large bore undersized barrel (Beer Can ) Brandt/Stokes  design uses a piece of Hi tensile thin wall tube(as is typical of the design type)  and because of this  the  breech plug is a designed  fail point by intention , it has no powder chamber .
 The barrel is cross pinned with a 3/8 grade 0 bolt  thru the breech plug  and Slip fits into the barrel. The reasoning behind this is that if a round jambs in the barrel ,instead of rupturing the barrel  the bolt will shear allowing it to lift off the breech plug and Safely release the pressure !! no fragmentation possible .  Yes the barrel and pod will end up down range a bit  but No fragmentation !!
Needless to say  i use a Looong fuse  and a surprisingly small charge of BP 300 Gr. FG  to loft a concrete filled can  more than 500 Yd.
I did not design this  an Engineer from Boeing did  ,i am second owner of it  and it works Very well  , i periodically replace the cross pin  because you can see it is being stressed , but with the 60Lb standard baseplate  and 40Lb of pod and tube , the only risk is getting singed if you are fool enough to be close to it  on ignition  if the shear link fails !!   
Unlike a cannon  the Brandt /Stokes design is a high volume low pressure design when used with finned projectiles  that allow a large "air gap" between the charge and the obdurate surface of the projectile . This pattern of launcher still uses BP in quite a few countries around the world  .

P.S. All my projectiles have finned tail booms  (rebar and angle iron fins  protruding from the beer can ) giving the launcher the proper Air Gap to operate in it`s intended parameters of Hi volume/Low pressure the "Live" ones do .




Offline Zulu

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2477
  • Honor is a gift a man gives himself.
    • Wood & Ironworks
Re: 4 1/2" hyd cylinder mortar
« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2014, 01:32:28 AM »
Since this design is under discussion  my large bore undersized barrel (Beer Can ) Brandt/Stokes  design uses a piece of Hi tensile thin wall tube(as is typical of the design type)  and because of this  the  breech plug is a designed  fail point by intention , it has no powder chamber .
 The barrel is cross pinned with a 3/8 grade 0 bolt  thru the breech plug  and Slip fits into the barrel. The reasoning behind this is that if a round jambs in the barrel ,instead of rupturing the barrel  the bolt will shear allowing it to lift off the breech plug and Safely release the pressure !! no fragmentation possible .  Yes the barrel and pod will end up down range a bit  but No fragmentation !!
Needless to say  i use a Looong fuse  and a surprisingly small charge of BP 300 Gr. FG  to loft a concrete filled can  more than 500 Yd.
I did not design this  an Engineer from Boeing did  ,i am second owner of it  and it works Very well  , i periodically replace the cross pin  because you can see it is being stressed , but with the 60Lb standard baseplate  and 40Lb of pod and tube , the only risk is getting singed if you are fool enough to be close to it  on ignition  if the shear link fails !!   
Unlike a cannon  the Brandt /Stokes design is a high volume low pressure design when used with finned projectiles  that allow a large "air gap" between the charge and the obdurate surface of the projectile . This pattern of launcher still uses BP in quite a few countries around the world  .

P.S. All my projectiles have finned tail booms  (rebar and angle iron fins  protruding from the beer can ) giving the launcher the proper Air Gap to operate in it`s intended parameters of Hi volume/Low pressure the "Live" ones do .

Why would you want to shoot something you are afraid of? :-\
Zulu's website
www.jmelledge.com

Offline Indygunworks

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 333
  • Gender: Male
Re: 4 1/2" hyd cylinder mortar
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2014, 01:48:02 AM »
why would you want to pack explosives into something that is designed to fail on purpose?

Offline clum sum

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 293
  • Gender: Male
Re: 4 1/2" hyd cylinder mortar
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2014, 02:27:15 AM »
Designed by an engineer form Boeing. Thats why I don't get in air planes any more.
A man's hand shake is his bond.
                     Joe R. Risley Jr.

Offline belt fed frog

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: 4 1/2" hyd cylinder mortar
« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2014, 05:38:25 AM »
You guys are thinking like what you are  Cannoneers , the Brandt/Stokes design is Not a Cannon it is a Launcher !
While the energetic is the same the mode of operation is different , a Cannon/Cohorn /BP Rifle/shotgun  are direct contact energetic propelled  while a Launcher  deals with the impingement force of the energetic  in a different way, it is a Low pressure /Hi capacity gas expansion chamber design  ,that is why they are far more lightly built  .
Launchers use less energetic  with a lower mass projectile and Lower recoil  by design ,Launchers operate  very differently than Cannons !
Air gap in a Cannon is a dangerous thing  they are designed to be in contact with the projectile ,a Launcher on the other hand is more like a Blow gun  and driven not by the contact explosion  but instead by the expansion of gas produced by the energetic  into a volume at a much lower pressure and velocity .
Example  the M-203  modern Launcher  the case is a Hi /Low design  ,a Hi pressure cartridge with a burst disc to get complete burn of the powder ,the disc bursts expelling the gases into a chamber under the projectile  at a Low pressure but continued expansion propelling the projectile down the barrel  resulting in Low recoil forces  and low velocities .
It is based on the Brandt/Stokes design principals for a Launcher  , Very different from how a cannon /cohorn /rifle/shotgun is designed to function . Yes they use the same energetic  but in a different way of force application .
My shear link tube  is designed with a predictable fail safe  should anything go wrong  instead of  a catastrophic shrapnel filled danger zone  ,if you are standing 5' away from it  it might singe your pants cuffs and you might catch a few hot embers  but you will not get Any metal shrapnel ! 
Two totally different principals of operation using the same energetic .
I am Far form  :o Crazy !


Offline dominick

  • GBO Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (21)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1367
  • Gender: Male
    • Black Powder Cannons & Mortars
Re: 4 1/2" hyd cylinder mortar
« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2014, 07:30:26 AM »
Predictable fail safe in a proper application is an excellent idea.

Offline clum sum

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 293
  • Gender: Male
Re: 4 1/2" hyd cylinder mortar
« Reply #37 on: February 27, 2014, 08:09:05 AM »
When the bolt fails where do the parts go, just fall down?
A man's hand shake is his bond.
                     Joe R. Risley Jr.

Offline belt fed frog

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: 4 1/2" hyd cylinder mortar
« Reply #38 on: February 27, 2014, 12:20:08 PM »
When the bolt fails where do the parts go, just fall down?
Yep they are safety wired to the Breech Plug   ;D I told you it was designed by a Boeing Engineer  i just did not tell you where he worked  :-X ,He`is an old friend of mine and no fool when it comes to safety !

Offline Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12609
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Re: 4 1/2" hyd cylinder mortar
« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2014, 08:45:33 PM »
Rationalization! Nonsense!

Designed to fail?.  Safety wires or not,  sure hope it doesn't fire and fail while being loading.  Some one is going to lose parts of their body.

Boeing engineer design or not, if it is designed to fail then it doesn't belong here. Being an engineer that build stuff for airplane, does not necessarily qualify one too build cannons...this sounds like a perfect example

If you are standing 5 feet away  and you are in danger of getting your pants singed, then this thing is just plain unsafe!