Author Topic: Injured BP agent kills rock throwing criminal invader near border S of San Diego (Read 3011 times)

powderman · « **on:** February 18, 2014, 06:10:27 AM »

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2014/02/18/border-patrol-altercation-near-mexico-border-south-san-diego-leaves-one-dead/

Injured U.S. Border Agent Shoots And Kills Rock-Throwing Border Crosser Near San Diego By fox5sandiego.comPublished February 18, 2014 Fox News Latino
A U.S. Border Patrol officer shot and killed a suspected undocumented immigrant on a mountain trail in the Otay Mesa area Tuesday, authorities said.

The shooting was reported just before 7 a.m. PST about five miles east of Paseo de la Fuente and Alta Road in rugged mountain terrain, according to San Diego County sheriff’s Lt. Jason Vickery.

Helicopter video showed the body of a man sprawled across rocks in a ravine on Otay Mountain, several hundred feet below a dirt road

The shooting took place as two Border Patrol officers were chasing after a group of people suspected of illegally crossing into the U.S. from Mexico, officials from U.S. Customs and Border Protection told reporters.
The officers became separated and one of the suspects threw a rock at one of the officers, hitting him in the face or head, authorities said. The officer feared for his life and shot the man with his service weapon, killing him, according to the officials.

The border officers took two other suspects into custody.

The officer who shot the man has not been identified. He was treated for minor injuries.

Sheriff’s homicide detectives are handling the shooting investigation. They have set up a command post in the 400 block of Alta Road.
For more stories go to fox5sandiego.com
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nw_hunter · « **Reply #1 on:** February 18, 2014, 09:18:29 AM »

I hope he's not treated like Ramos and Copean were.

m-g Willy · « **Reply #2 on:** February 18, 2014, 09:52:36 AM »

I think this shooting really needs investigated.
And my guess is that if I was this BP agent's boss he would be looking for a new job.
If you are chasing someone and they turn on you with a gun, knife a rock or just their fists YOU should drop them before they have a chance to do any damage to you or anyone with you!

powderman · « **Reply #3 on:** February 18, 2014, 10:38:28 AM »

David killed goliath with a rock. Good shoot, shoulda got em all. POWDERMAN.

no guns here · « **Reply #4 on:** February 19, 2014, 05:34:34 AM »

Yet another example of over-escalation by today's "warrior police". The guy was being chased for a crime that does NOT warrant deadly force. We have about 12 MILLION illegal immigrants in our country already. He threw a rock... BFD. Better to let him go than to kill him. Follow at a distance and pick up safely when he is at a numerical disadvantage. So anyway... Cops can beat you down, taser you, shoot you for little if any reason at all. Pay attention to this more in the news. You can even be charged with resisting arrest when the "arrest" was illegal and the "crime" doesn't exist. Moral of the story lately is... don't fight back, don't stand up for your rights, don't exercise your rights... the cops will kill you if you do.

NGH

Ranger99 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 19, 2014, 07:13:34 AM »

even if the cop is a ****head, a smart
man will keep his hands out of his pockets,
stand still when told to, and not try to
grapple with the officer. when one does
that, they are irrefutably in the wrong.
that is, provided the officer is in uniform
and identifies himself as an officer of
so-and-so dept. and is in a marked vehicle.

david of biblical times killed a much
larger man with a rock

powderman · « **Reply #6 on:** February 19, 2014, 07:32:43 AM »

Quote from: no guns here on February 19, 2014, 05:34:34 AM

Yet another example of over-escalation by today's "warrior police". The guy was being chased for a crime that does NOT warrant deadly force. We have about 12 MILLION illegal immigrants in our country already. He threw a rock... BFD. Better to let him go than to kill him. Follow at a distance and pick up safely when he is at a numerical disadvantage. So anyway... Cops can beat you down, taser you, shoot you for little if any reason at all. Pay attention to this more in the news. You can even be charged with resisting arrest when the "arrest" was illegal and the "crime" doesn't exist. Moral of the story lately is... don't fight back, don't stand up for your rights, don't exercise your rights... the cops will kill you if you do.

NGH

NGH. I'm surprised at your post. Rocks can be dangerous weapons. BP agents, cops, even civilians should have the right to defend themselves. If a man is throwing rocks at me or a loved one he WILL get shot. These invaders broke the law by coming here. illegally. If they were all throwing rocks I feel the agents had the right to shoot all of them, it should happen a lot more often. They don't like it, STAY HOME. POWDERMAN.

m-g Willy · « **Reply #7 on:** February 19, 2014, 10:12:32 AM »

Quote from: no guns here on February 19, 2014, 05:34:34 AM

Yet another example of over-escalation by today's "warrior police"
.(1) The guy was being chased for a crime that does NOT warrant deadly force.
(2) We have about 12 MILLION illegal immigrants in our country already. He threw a rock... BFD.
(3) Better to let him go than to kill him. Follow at a distance and pick up safely when he is at a numerical disadvantage.
(4) Moral of the story lately is... don't fight back, don't stand up for your rights, don't exercise your rights... the cops will kill you if you do.

NGH

(1)Cops pulling over a car for a tail light being out have been shot and killed by a perp guilty of more than a broken tail light,,,,but the cop didn't know !
(2) 12 million rocks is A BIG PILE OF ROCKS!!
(3) Let him go? Hmmm, why have border patrol at all if we don't want them to do their job?
(4) What rights did this invader have? What rights was he standing up for? What gave him the right to throw rocks at the BP?

no guns here · « **Reply #8 on:** February 19, 2014, 10:18:20 PM »

First - I never said that the guy should have been let go. I said "Better to let him go than to kill him. Follow at a distance and pick up safely when he is at a numerical disadvantage." I guess I did say that... but really what I meant was to not escalate to deadly force for someone chunking a rock. We have drones, blimps, planes, spotters, etc. Pick him up safely when you have 3 or 4 guys on him and no one has to get killed.

Yes I know... David killed Goliath. But he used a sling and his hand was guided by God. Then he cut off his head...

Quote

even if the cop is a ****head, a smart
man will keep his hands out of his pockets,
stand still when told to, and not try to
grapple with the officer. when one does
that, they are irrefutably in the wrong.
that is, provided the officer is in uniform
and identifies himself as an officer of
so-and-so dept. and is in a marked vehicle.

So if a cop pulls over a woman and tries to rape her in the back seat... she shouldn't resist. I mean... he was in a marked car, had on his uniform, had a badge... she should just submit? Stupid.

If you are video recording a cops traffic stop... you should just submit to being beaten for it? It's only your first amendment right... Don't worry, just accept the fact that you are going to get tasered or shot for it.

I remember when I was a kid... we used to have rock fights. Sure glad there weren't any cops around. I might have gotten shot...

The cop had a responsibility to NOT overescalate the situation and NOT use deadly force if not warranted. So unless the guy was beating him down with the rock... the cop and other options that did NOT involve taking his life.

1. ignored it and let him go
2. backed off and followed, pick up later with backup
3. taser
4. pepper spray

While I fully support the right of self defense... if someone chunks a rock at me, pulling my Springfield .45 Compact and killing him is probably NOT my first response. Removing myself from rock-throwing distance is my first response. I would find that pretty hard to explain to a court... "Oh there was a guy that was pissed at me about 20 yards away and he threw a rock... it hit my shoulder and sort of hurt so I blew him away."

What rights did he have? I know someone is going to get Constitutional on me... so flame on... What part of "ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL" is hard to understand. It doesn't say "ALL CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES". Oh there is another part... "LIFE, LIBERTY AND ....".

This man was killed for no reason other than he threw a rock... I'm glad my right shoulder doesn't work good and I throw like a little girl with my left. I'd really hate to throw a rock some day and get killed for it.

NGH

no guns here · « **Reply #9 on:** February 19, 2014, 10:20:20 PM »

Quote

(1)Cops pulling over a car for a tail light being out have been shot and killed by a perp guilty of more than a broken tail light,,,,but the cop didn't know !

Better make sure your taillights are good... maybe the traffic cop won't be so nice next time and will just start flinging lead at you... I mean, you could be trying to kill him.

NGH

m-g Willy · « **Reply #10 on:** February 19, 2014, 10:25:42 PM »

Quote from: no guns here on February 19, 2014, 10:20:20 PM

Quote
(1)Cops pulling over a car for a tail light being out have been shot and killed by a perp guilty of more than a broken tail light,,,,but the cop didn't know !

Better make sure your taillights are good... maybe the traffic cop won't be so nice next time and will just start flinging lead at you... I mean, you could be trying to kill him.

NGH

Maybe a better idea if you are being stopped for a tail light being out would be to " NOT " run from the LEO ! and then "DO NOT" try to kill the cop if you don't want him shooting at you!

no guns here · « **Reply #11 on:** February 19, 2014, 10:37:52 PM »

I guess my point was that have broken taillights was in no way connected to the conversation.

The main point that I'm trying to make is that there is a growing problem with the militarization of the police in this country, AND there is a growing problem with the overescalation of the use of force among the police.

I mean... we all read the news and see stories of cops beating folks, destroying houses, tasering elementary kids and a myriad of other acts that COULD be resolved in a peaceful manner if the cops would just not be quite so aggresive and if the public would hold them accountable for their actions. Cops seems to be developing (and many seem to be accepting) a very aggressive "us versus the civilians" attitude. This attitude seems to give them the sense that they can do whatever they want, whenever they want, wherever they want, to whomever they want.

A news story yesterday involved a woman who was pulled over and then recorded the stop. The cop told her it was a felony (definitely NOT and has been upheld in court many times). Then he tried to arrest her and take her device. It became physical because she asserted her RIGHTS. The cop then arrested her. She was charged with resisting arrest. HTF can she be charged with resisting arrest when the arrest was illegal. The crime didn't exist. In this case, the DA should have let her go with a profuse apology and had the cop fired on the spot and then prosecuted him.

Or I guess we should all cheer him for giving her what she deserved... I mean that crazy woman didn't knuckle under and OBEY! Probably should have beat her down with his maglight... she fought back for her rights and that MUST NOT BE ALLOWED.

NGH

no guns here · « **Reply #12 on:** February 19, 2014, 10:41:50 PM »

And another example...
http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2014/02/19/attorney-teen-shot-killed-by-police-was-holding-wii-video-game-controller/

Shoot first, ask questions later.

NGH

Mikey · « **Reply #13 on:** February 19, 2014, 11:00:17 PM »

And people wonder why I advocate a revolution.

Ranger99 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 19, 2014, 11:45:01 PM »

sorry.
i missed the part where the
cop tried to rape the border jumper.
i did see where the cop was injured
by the rock throwing illegal and to be
treated at a hospital for head injuries
that could have just as easily been fatal.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #15 on:** February 20, 2014, 12:15:31 AM »

Quote from: powderman on February 18, 2014, 10:38:28 AM

David killed goliath with a rock. Good shoot, shoulda got em all. POWDERMAN.

You need a Sundy school lesson. Or maybe this was and is not taught in your Sunday school as it is not very American, killing an enemy you knocked out. And maybe that is why they leave out the part about the Sword.

David knocked Goliath out with the rock, He drew Goliath's sword and cut his head off with it.

True a depressed skull fracture from the rock would most likely have killed Goliath but the it could have just been a severe concussion as well, the use of the sword hasened his death and had there been a coroners report on it, it would have shown the sword was the actual death weapon. As it takes some time for the brain to swell and cut off the involuntary mussle movements (heart Diaphram). Goliath could have just as likely after a few minutes shook his head and stood up and used the sword on David cleaving him in half.

Thus pointing out that the officer was in fear of his life. Had the rock struck him in a place that knocked him out there is historical eveidence that the person hurling the rock would have and could have run over and used his own weapon against him.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #16 on:** February 20, 2014, 12:26:04 AM »

Quote from: Mikey on February 19, 2014, 11:00:17 PM

And people wonder why I advocate a revolution.

History is repeating its self. The reason for the French Revolultion was the exemptions of people by so many laws. This job or that class of person were exempt from prosicution of the law.
We are seeing the same frustration here and now. The politicians exempt them selves from laws they make us follow, the exempt police officers from the same safety rules they impose on us (cell phones in the car, speeding, and fire arm posession) We have a certain political party that seems to be exempted from coruption laws. And a leadership that does not understand the plight of the people creating more and more laws, rules, and decrees that do the opposite of what they state is their intended purpose. At some point we will have a revolution. The question is will it result in freedom like the American Revolution of 1776 or enslavement and Chaos like the French 1812, Chinese 1946, and Russian 1917 revolutions were many were killed as trators to the cause who did nothing wrong except speak their mind or advocate freedom or point out the crimes of others.

no guns here · « **Reply #17 on:** February 20, 2014, 03:22:16 AM »

Quote

The officer who shot the man has not been identified. He was treated for minor injuries.

From the story... MINOR INJURIES.

One should not fear for his life from someone who inflicted MINOR INJURIES. I got a MINOR INJURY from my horse this morning when she stepped on my foot. It's a bruise and is sore. I got a minor injury last week when I hit my head on a steel bar in my shed. It looked like I tried to scalp myself and bled like a stuck pig. I couple of years ago my carpet knife slipped and I stabbed my leg. Another minor injury.

The BP were CHASING the illegals... that means by definition the illegals were running away. Hence the word "chase". The guy threw a rock and hit the cop either in the face or the head and inflicted minor injuries. Sounds to me like the cop got pissed that the guy threw the rock, blew him away and said "I feared for my life". We all know that there was no witness and the cop's word will be taken as fact. All he had to say was "I feared for my life".

You know here in Texas I have much the same right... someone on comes on my property and I can shoot them and say "I feared for my life". But in reality I had better have a better reason than trespassing. If I'm on the street and a bunch of punks start chunking rocks, I could double tap one or two of them and say "I feared for my life". But I'd really probably need to have a better reason than a bruise on my cheek.

Personally I think the cop over-reached, over-escalated and over-reacted. No witnesses... it happened just the way he said it did. Everything he did was correct. "I feared for my life".

NGH

m-g Willy · « **Reply #18 on:** February 20, 2014, 03:57:19 AM »

Quote from: no guns here on February 20, 2014, 03:22:16 AM

Quote
The officer who shot the man has not been identified. He was treated for minor injuries.

From the story... (1)MINOR INJURIES.

One should not fear for his life from someone who inflicted MINOR INJURIES.
The BP were CHASING the (2)""""""""""""" illegals"""""""""""""""""""""... that means by definition the illegals were running away. Hence the word "chase".
You know here in Texas I have much the same right... someone on comes on my property and I can shoot them and say "I feared for my life". Personally I think the cop over-reached, over-escalated and over-reacted. No witnesses... it happened just the way he said it did. Everything he did was correct. "I feared for my life".

NGH

(1)So if someone breaks into your house,,, you would not shoot them until after they inflicted 'major" injury to you?
(2) They were""illegals"" hence that's why they were running away. They were not about to give up even if it came down to causing injury or maybe even death to the BP.
I would not throw a rock at someone unless I didn't care if I caused GREAT harm or even death to that person.
Personally I would have more respect for the BP if he had dropped the "illegal" before the criminal had a chance to throw the rock!
The BP took a chance that if he would have been disabled from the rock, the "illegal" may have took the BP's weapon and used it on him or another LEO in his attempt to escape.

gypsyman · « **Reply #19 on:** February 20, 2014, 04:42:37 AM »

I'm coming down on the side of the BP agent. With all that's happened in the last couple years, whole different story out in the middle of the desert trying to stop some illegal's, than pulling over a car, where with a minute of checking license plate number, you have a pretty good idea of who's driving the car. Your already dealing with a person/s that are willing to break the law, might be working for a drug cartel hauling drugs or trying to get weapons. Seen a guy in a bar fight 30 some years ago, take out a guy with a pool ball at 10 feet or so. Knocked him out cold. Luckily, one of the throwers friends stepped in and that's where it ended. A rock at ?? feet. Yep, can do some damage. gypsyman

no guns here · « **Reply #20 on:** February 20, 2014, 04:52:41 AM »

Nope... break into my house and get shot on sight. But that is different than this scenario... Now if there was someone on my property and I started chasing them and they were running away and then chunked a rock at me... to me unless they are presenting a clear and present danger to my family or to me, I'm not gonna shoot them. If they shot at us... different story. Why kill someone when they are running away?

How far can a guy throw a rock accurately... not a baseball or pool ball that is round and uniformly dense but a rock. What? Maybe 20 yards?

He's an illegal... most likely NOT trying to do anything but come to work/live (not that I agree with that) but he was probably just trying to get away. Just no reason to kill the guy. Too easy to follow and pick up safely later.

Seriously... you advocate killing a guy just because he is here illegally? Seriously??? I hope you never travel to Mexico and lose your passport...
Instead of arresting you... according to your theory they should just shoot you in the head.

Maybe we should round up all the illegals, put them on ships and then sink them in the ocean. I mean, they were here illegally. According to your theory they should die.

NGH

m-g Willy · « **Reply #21 on:** February 20, 2014, 05:18:39 AM »

Quote from: no guns here on February 20, 2014, 04:52:41 AM

...(1) to me unless they are presenting a clear and present danger to my family or to me, I'm not gonna shoot them.
(2)If they shot at us... different story.
(3)Why kill someone when they are running away?

(4)How far can a guy throw a rock accurately... not a baseball or pool ball that is round and uniformly dense but a rock. What? Maybe 20 yards?

(5)He's an illegal... most likely NOT trying to do anything.
Seriously... you advocate killing a guy just because he is here illegally? Seriously???
(6)I hope you never travel to Mexico and lose your passport...
Instead of arresting you... according to your theory they should just shoot you in the head.

NGH

(1)Pretty dangerous to be letting someone bounce rocks off your head.
(2)So only if they 'shot" at you? What about trying to stab you? Or maybe just beat you with a ball bat? What about a bow and arrow , or a spear, or just a rock? All can be used as a deadly weapon.
(3) I'd say if someone can throw a rock and hit someone in the head ,,then they are not running away,, they are fighting.
(4)Don't know what the average is, but this illegal was close enough to score a hit.
(5) "MOST LIKELY" Is that like = "I never thought that..." or "What are the chances ..." all famous sayings AFTER something happens !
(6)

gypsyman · « **Reply #22 on:** February 20, 2014, 05:21:26 AM »

NGH, since we're throwing out scenario's here, breaking into your house, doing harm to a family member, etc. How about this. What if we find out the illegal that was killed is wanted for murder or rape, in this country or Mexico. Maybe he's a hit guy for MS13, and killed a bunch of people in Mexico, or here. BP agent just saved us tens' of thousands of dollars. Maybe a child molester. We don't know the details, other than he was running away, and tried to do bodily harm. Still on the side of the BP agent. gypsyman

magooch · « **Reply #23 on:** February 20, 2014, 05:40:08 AM »

There is no reason to have to make up scenarios; the border patrol has the authority to stop suspected illegal invaders--period. The border patrol was legally performing his duty. He was attacked with a deadly weapon (yes a deadly rock) and the officer returned fire. Good on the border patrol.

no guns here · « **Reply #24 on:** February 20, 2014, 11:02:36 AM »

Gypsyman,

So now you want to kill people because they MIGHT have committed a crime?

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #25 on:** February 20, 2014, 12:55:12 PM »

Quote from: no guns here on February 20, 2014, 03:22:16 AM

Quote
The officer who shot the man has not been identified. He was treated for minor injuries.

From the story... MINOR INJURIES.

One should not fear for his life from someone who inflicted MINOR INJURIES. I got a MINOR INJURY from my horse this morning when she stepped on my foot. It's a bruise and is sore. I got a minor injury last week when I hit my head on a steel bar in my shed. It looked like I tried to scalp myself and bled like a stuck pig. I couple of years ago my carpet knife slipped and I stabbed my leg. Another minor injury.

The BP were CHASING the illegals... that means by definition the illegals were running away. Hence the word "chase". The guy threw a rock and hit the cop either in the face or the head and inflicted minor injuries. Sounds to me like the cop got pissed that the guy threw the rock, blew him away and said "I feared for my life". We all know that there was no witness and the cop's word will be taken as fact. All he had to say was "I feared for my life".

You know here in Texas I have much the same right... someone on comes on my property and I can shoot them and say "I feared for my life". But in reality I had better have a better reason than trespassing. If I'm on the street and a bunch of punks start chunking rocks, I could double tap one or two of them and say "I feared for my life". But I'd really probably need to have a better reason than a bruise on my cheek.

Personally I think the cop over-reached, over-escalated and over-reacted. No witnesses... it happened just the way he said it did. Everything he did was correct. "I feared for my life".

NGH

But your horse was not trying to do you harm. The person that was shot knowingly was chucking rocks at an armed federal officer and if he did not thinki the officer would defend himself then the Darwin awards should be presented to this person. And minor injusries are only because he did not hit the officer in a vital spot.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #26 on:** February 20, 2014, 01:02:44 PM »

Quote from: no guns here on February 20, 2014, 11:02:36 AM

Gypsyman,

So now you want to kill people because they MIGHT have committed a crime?

If the person broke the law or not when he started to throw rocks at the officer he was in the middle of committing a felony, assault with a deadly weapon. We have peopel in the middle east that are stoned to death, simple rocks pelting the person until they sucome to multiple contusions. Isrteali soldiers have been killed by palistinains throwing rocks. Heck base ball players have been killed by a stray base ball pitch. and a rock is much denser than a base ball.
I am not sure what you would consider a deadly weapon. but I would consider a rock, stone, or pebble a weapon being used against the officer. If I were on the grand jury and some DA brought the case to me I would vote for NO true bill on the case based o nthe facts I read.

williamlayton · « **Reply #27 on:** February 20, 2014, 05:48:56 PM »

NGH
I doubt this will get thru to your brain--but, here goes.
I don't care who it is---if a man cannot stand and protect hisownself, he has reliquised his right to be a man and has by the very act become a person in need of care and protection of the government.
You are trying, desperately, to save face and all you are doing is digging a hole and instead of throwning the dirt out of the hole you are burying yourownself.
Blessings

Dee · « **Reply #28 on:** February 20, 2014, 09:13:40 PM »

Quote from: magooch on February 20, 2014, 05:40:08 AM

There is no reason to have to make up scenarios; the border patrol has the authority to stop suspected illegal invaders--period. The border patrol was legally performing his duty. He was attacked with a deadly weapon (yes a deadly rock) and the officer returned fire. Good on the border patrol.

+1
The man was in the country ILLEGALLY, for UNKNOWN REASONS, and EVADING ARREST. He was NOT CONCERNED about the officers safety, and was WILLING TO INJURE the officer in order to escape.
All of them should be charged with "INVASION OF THE UNITED STATES".

no guns here · « **Reply #29 on:** February 20, 2014, 09:52:11 PM »

Okay, whatever... let's just let the overescalation of police response continue.

So far we have:

people willing to kill over minor injuries

people willing to kill over crimes that MIGHT have been committed

people willing to kill over a pebble

I'm saying that there CAN be better ways to deal with things than resorting to deadly force as the first option.

Dang... why can't you people see that this is happening and is becoming more and more rampant. Police look for ANY excuse to beat people, tase people and shoot people. It's in the news every day.

I swear... I hope none of you ever get into a fist fight... some one punches you and you blow them away over a minor injury.

I thought I was conservative and hard core on crime and punishment. I believe in mandatory sentencing and the death penalty and only one or two appeals. I am nowhere near as hard core as you guys. I just can't condone blowing someone away for throwing a rock...

out and done,

NGH