Author Topic: Injured BP agent kills rock throwing criminal invader near border S of San Diego  (Read 3018 times)

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Offline Victor3

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Okay, whatever... let's just let the overescalation of police response continue.
 
So far we have:
 
people willing to kill over minor injuries

Do you have information confirming that the BP agent knew that his injuries were "minor" at the time he shot the suspect?

Quote
people willing to kill over crimes that MIGHT have been committed


Might? Isn't deliberately hitting someone in the head with a rock considered a crime these days, regardless if the victim is a LEO?  ???
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

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Offline magooch

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Well, I guess he's gone, but jeepers, one has to be able to distinguish between an out of control officer and one who is just trying to survive and do his job.  Of course I don't know the nature of the training border patrol people get, but I would be very surprised if they are instructed to absorb a certain amount of abuse and attack from suspected perps.


Just because there are news accounts "every day" where police are accused of abusing their authority doesn't mean that every situation where disproportionate force is applied is an abuse.  I can fully appreciate the gravity of often split second decisions that police must make in the performance of their duties.  It calls for impeccable judgement, prudence and training.  I tend to believe that the majority of law enforcement people are far from being trigger happy and in fact that they are probably trained to resist being too restrained for their own preservation.  Of course there are exceptions and that's just the way things are. 


I have personally experienced situations where it seemed that the police were so jaded and used to dealing with crooks and bad guys that their natural assumption was that everyone was up to no good.  I try very hard not to be prejudiced against the guys in uniform.
Swingem

Offline powderman

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NGH. He was a criminal, invader, felon, fugitive,  ILLEGAL. This was not a kid rossing a pebble. This was a grown man trying to harm or kill an offier of the law in a country he had no business in. We have rules and laws that meant nothing to him. He got what he deserved. Attack an American while invading you will be shot. POWDERMAN.  ::) ::)
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
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Offline mcwoodduck

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Okay, whatever... let's just let the overescalation of police response continue.
 
So far we have:
 
people willing to kill over minor injuries
 
people willing to kill over crimes that MIGHT have been committed
 
people willing to kill over a pebble
 
I'm saying that there CAN be better ways to deal with things than resorting to deadly force as the first option.
 
Dang... why can't you people see that this is happening and is becoming more and more rampant.  Police look for ANY excuse to beat people, tase people and shoot people.  It's in the news every day.
 
I swear... I hope none of you ever get into a fist fight... some one punches you and you blow them away over a minor injury.
 
 
I thought I was conservative and hard core on crime and punishment.  I believe in mandatory sentencing and the death penalty and only one or two appeals.  I am nowhere near as hard core as you guys.  I just can't condone blowing someone away for throwing a rock...
 
out and done,
 
 
NGH
I guess you can justify your position on anything.  City thug using a baseball bat to extort money, is a youth headed to a little league game and the police or the shop owner is not justified in protecting themself?
 
Man using a hammer to hit girl in head is a carpenter loosing control of his tools.  It being a glancing blow is not a sign of his intent, but of his poor skills of using the tool.  Not to mention the girl ducking seeing the hammer comming.  Does his bad aim and only inflicting minor damage change his intent? 
 
A Boulder, a rock, a pebble, and a Stone or even a grain of sand are all the same just different sizes of the same material.  Much like comparing the  projectile of a Battleship with a BB.  But both the Battle ship and the BB are deadly.  Evnen #9 shot is only a grain in weight but with enough force it is deadly.  You are trying to minamize the intent of what the person did by saying pebble.    If I shoot at you with a Balle ship of a BB gun my intent is clear.   My choice may be bad, my aim may be bad, but my intent is clear.  Same with throwing a rock, stone, or pebble, he wanted to harm the police officer. 
 
I am not infavor of the police being exempted from laws, I am not infavor of the police having M-16's.  Police need to set an example and drive the speed limit, they need to obey all the laws they enforce on us.  But if you were going to ask them to enforce the law then they need to be able to defend them selves in that duty.  And if this officer let the perp excape, then if we do not want to be pulled over, talked to by a police officer all we have to do is grab a handful of stones and start tossing them at a police officer until they are damaged enough to leave, or get bored with us and walk away. 
Either our laws mean something and need ot be enforced or our laws mean nothing and why have police in the first place. 
 
 

Offline mcwoodduck

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NGH. He was a criminal, invader, felon, fugitive,  ILLEGAL. This was not a kid rossing a pebble. This was a grown man trying to harm or kill an offier of the law in a country he had no business in. We have rules and laws that meant nothing to him. He got what he deserved. Attack an American while invading you will be shot. POWDERMAN.  ::) ::)
Don't focus on the illegal part, just turn this around to any police officer.  If this was a city police and was looking for a man in a red sweat shirt that just did X and saw a guy in a red sweat asked him to come over, the guy runs grabs a handfull of rocks and starts winging them atthe officer and hits the officer, What does the officer do?  Defend himself or let the guy get away. 

Offline Hairy Chest

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Why do we need a Fox News Latino?   :P
Study after study has shown how dangerous distracted driving is yet people continue to talk on their cell phones while driving. Driving in the U.S. requires your full attention. Many states and countries have made it illegal to use a cell phone while operating a motor vehicle and the federal government should follow their lead. Banning the use of cell phones while driving would have the added benefit of making the no-texting law enforceable.

Offline guzzijohn

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There are just some people here that want to shoot anyone on sight that they consider illegal. Sad.
GuzziJohn

Offline nw_hunter

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There are just some people here that want to shoot anyone on sight that they consider illegal. Sad.
GuzziJohn




I don't know of anyone on here saying Illegals should be shot on sight! Should they be sought and apprehended? "SURE" They are breaking the law. They are here illegally. Should an officer defend themselves from someone trying or doing bodily harm to them.Absolutely! Whats sad is you trying to add something to these responses from the posters you don't agree with. If your just looking to troll this thread, I suggest you go troll somewhere else. It's not allowed here.
Freedom Of Speech.....Once we lose it, every other freedom will follow.

Offline m-g Willy

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There are just some people here that want to shoot anyone on sight that they consider illegal. Sad.
GuzziJohn

Let me ask you a question
Q-If the cop started shooting at the illegal on sight, and the illegal picked up a rock and threw it at the cop that was shooting at him,,,,Would you say that illegal had the right to defend himself?

Offline tom548

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I had not read this post but noticed it had a lot of action, so I took a look. Seems to be a lot of armchair arguement, after all none of us were there and shooting a person for throwing a rock sounds pretty bad but we most likley don't have the whole story, I guess I will just wait and see if any thing becomes of it.
The way an incident is written up in the officers report makes a big difference on how it will be investigated by the people over him in the chain of command.

Offline mcwoodduck

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There are just some people here that want to shoot anyone on sight that they consider illegal. Sad.
GuzziJohn
Yes there are
They are usually the very intollerant liberals that are supose to respect alternative opinions.  Instead they act like KGB officers.  "what did you say?  Off to siberia with you until you agree with us or we will kill you.    It is them that call for the killing of Republicans and Conservitives. 
 

Offline no guns here

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Quote
There are just some people here that want to shoot anyone on sight that they consider illegal. Sad.
GuzziJohn
Seems like those same people want to shoot anyone who commits any crime... even throwing a grain of sand.
 
 
 
One thing that bothers me is that there are people who advocate killing someone for minor acts.
Another thing that bothers me is that there are people who advocate lethal force as a first response to any attack on or self-defense from a police officer.
 
I support law and order...
 
I don't support the militarization of the police forces in america.  I don't support the widespread over-escalation of the use of force in the police forces in america.  I think the average american police officer is developing an us versus them attitude and demanding obedience to thier every order or whim whether it is legal or not.  If anyone doesn't OBEY (even if the cops action is illegal), then the first instinct is to brutalize them or kill them to enforce their will.  The "civilians" must be shown who is in charge...  There doesn't seems to be any thought as to how to resolve a situation without killing or brutality.
 
"I feared for my life" is all they have to say...
 
NGH
"I feared for my life!"

Offline magooch

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What happened to "over and done"?
Swingem

Offline no guns here

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Sorry... just couldn't help myself.
 
I didn't want anyone to think I just gave up...
 
NGH
"I feared for my life!"

Offline Hairy Chest

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Fox News Latino:  Media for tea partiers pandering to a Democratic victim group because they are too worried about being labelled "racist".   

If amnesty wins, you can forget your Second Amendment rights.  So why the pandering?  Demand that there is a Fox News Europa!   8)
Study after study has shown how dangerous distracted driving is yet people continue to talk on their cell phones while driving. Driving in the U.S. requires your full attention. Many states and countries have made it illegal to use a cell phone while operating a motor vehicle and the federal government should follow their lead. Banning the use of cell phones while driving would have the added benefit of making the no-texting law enforceable.

Offline ironglow

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  After all these years you fellows know me as a "law & order" type guy, but in recent years I am beginning to believe as our founding fathers did in 1776.."so long as that law is a just law".

  I found that Latino news article to be deceptive at the outset... as soon as they decided to be untruthful enough to describe the border crosser as "undocumented" rather than "illegal".

  As one who has served as with No Guns Here.  I recognize that NGH has a similar problem as I do.  For all my life I felt we could be reasonably sure of our elected officials collectively, doing fairly close to the "right thing".
  Today there is a decidedly different spirit inside the beltway of Washington, DC.  Gentlemen, we are losing our rights, liberties and freedom at a rapid pace.  The following article can explain some of my apprehensions ..and likely some of the apprehensions of NGH:

  http://www.wnd.com/2014/02/ex-commie-spymaster-warns-of-rapid-american-descent/

  BTW:  NGH and I are not alone:

  http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/02/23/license-plates-guns-news-federal-government-column/5759933/
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline SHOOTALL

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So we get part of a story and the same old posters want to lynch the cop while others want to give him a raise. So this guy attacks the officer with a rock , no one has said how much damage was done to the officer was he passing out ? bleeding ?  ? No one has said if the attacker was coming at him with another rock ? Now it should matter what the answers are . Was the illegal shot in front or back ? That would be a biggie in some cases .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline no guns here

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Ironglow gets it.
 
And while I don't think it is an enumerated "right" (although perhaps included in "unreasonable search and seizure"), we should deserve respect and decent treatment from our appointed "public safety officers".  Instead of worrying about them demanding obedience and subjugation to their every whim, they should look for every opportunity to de-escalate a situation instead of automatically jumping into "I feared for my life" mode.  All this is, is a pre-conditioning for the public to get us ready for police-state rules and regulations.
 
Watch the news for just how much of this is going on...
 
NGH
"I feared for my life!"

Offline ironglow

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So we get part of a story and the same old posters want to lynch the cop while others want to give him a raise. So this guy attacks the officer with a rock , no one has said how much damage was done to the officer was he passing out ? bleeding ?  ? No one has said if the attacker was coming at him with another rock ? Now it should matter what the answers are . Was the illegal shot in front or back ? That would be a biggie in some cases .
dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd

  You will please note;  I didn't make any judgements concerning that case..other than the obvious "spin" of the Latino News..  I just don't know enough about THAT case.  I am making the greater case that our constitutional rights are being eroded away at an alarming rate and most people are sitting around with their fingers in the wrong place!  Wake up America, this is how it always starts!  How much have they progressed in the last few years?
cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc

     The Communist Conspiracy to Change America 
 
From, book The Naked Communist, Published 1958 
In 1958, W. Cleon Skousen published a book exposing the history and goals of Communism.  In his book titled The Naked Communist, he laid out the 45 goals of the Communist Party USA wanted to achieve in order to destroy American Society and its Constitutional form of Government.  Amazingly in the 50 years since publishing, these goals to overthrow America have nearly all been achieved!  We are seeing today at an ever faster rate the transformation of America from a Free Republic into a Socialist/ Communist Society.  Hope and Change!

Here are some of the 45 goals of the Communist Party U.S.A. from 1958.
 
11.  Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind.  If the U.N. charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one world government with its own independent armed forces.
 15.  Capture one or both political parties in the United States.  (In David Horowitz's book The Shadow Party, he shows how the Democratic Party is now under the control of what he calls the Shadow Party of Socialist-Communist influences.)
 17.  Get Control of the Schools.  Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda.  Soften the curriculum.  Get control of teachers' associations.  Put the Party line in textbooks.
 20.  Infiltrate the press.  Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policy-making positions.
 21.  Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.
 22.  Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression.  Eliminate all good sculptures from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms.
 23.  Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art.
 24.  Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.
 25.  Break down culture standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio and TV.
 26.  Present homo-sexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy." 
 27.  Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion.  Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."
 28.  Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."  (A.C.L.U. lawyers accomplished this goal in a very short 4 years from publication of the book The Naked Communist.) 
 29.  Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a world-wide basis.  (In 2012, Supreme Court Justice Ruth Ginsberg and A.C.L.U. member said exactly this while visiting Cairo, Egypt.)
 30.  Discredit the American founding fathers.  Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man." 
 31.  Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of "the big picture."  Give more emphases to Russian history since the Communist took over.
 32.  Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture, education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc. 
 36.  Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.
 37.  Infiltrate and gain control of big business.  (Then move the jobs overseas, to stifle the American economy.  Import goods from other countries, to create an imbalance of trade.)
 40.  Discredit the family as an institution.  Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.
 41.  Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influences of parents.  Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of the parents. 
 42.  Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use "united force" to solve economic, political or social problems.  (Occupy Wall Street is being organized by the Communist Party.)   
 45.  Repeal the Connally Reservation so the U.S. cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction over domestic problems.  Give the World Court jurisdiction over nations and individuals alike.
 
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline SHOOTALL

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ironglow , I did not point fingers . I agree with your last post. We need to resist poor police work but also we need to support good work. I don't care for all the SWAT teams and military weapons and uniforms. Maybe if we had kept our borders in good order we would not have developed the drug habit often sited as the need for a more military police .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline no guns here

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Victor3,
 
Sorry, I meant to get back to this.
 
Quote
What if we find out the illegal that was killed is wanted for murder or rape, in this country or Mexico. Maybe he's a hit guy for MS13, and killed a bunch of people in Mexico, or here. BP agent just saved us tens' of thousands of dollars. Maybe a child molester. We don't know the details, other than he was running away, and tried to do bodily harm. Still on the side of the BP agent.

This was the quote I was writing about when I said that some people were willing to kill based on a crime that MIGHT have been committed.
Basically, if they might have done something or if it will save us money... they should be shot.
 
 
NGH
 
"I feared for my life!"

Offline ironglow

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  On the other hand, we have discovered a criminal act perpetrated by politicians in Washington.  Military type weapons were delivered to the criminal, drug cartel operatives..  These weapons killed two border agents this side of the border and hundreds south of the border.
  Next question naturally.. Who among the Washington politicians ordered this and why are they not in jail?
  Perhaps that question will jar some into realizing what No Guns and I are referring to..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline no guns here

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Same guy who didn't know anything about Benghazi, the IRS crackdown on Tea Party, the NSA surveillance, the AP (right org?) surveillance and all the other scandals.  Same guy who appointed a SecDef that wants to cut the meat out of the military.
 
What do you think will happen to the hundreds of thousands they want to cut from the military?  They'll get offered positions in the DHS... a ready made "security force".
 
Spending more on food stamps, less on securing our nation...
 
Real freakin' smart!
 
NGH
"I feared for my life!"

Offline magooch

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Now we're cutting through the fog and getting around to who needs to be shot on sight.  Get er done!
Swingem

Offline Hairy Chest

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How about Fox News African, Fox News Native American?  Fox News Arabic? Fox News Canadian?  ???
Study after study has shown how dangerous distracted driving is yet people continue to talk on their cell phones while driving. Driving in the U.S. requires your full attention. Many states and countries have made it illegal to use a cell phone while operating a motor vehicle and the federal government should follow their lead. Banning the use of cell phones while driving would have the added benefit of making the no-texting law enforceable.

Offline gypsyman

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www.youtube/riot police stoned to death.  gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline ironglow

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How about Fox News African, Fox News Native American?  Fox News Arabic? Fox News Canadian?  ???
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

  What are you talking about ? 
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)