Author Topic: 30-30 or 357 Maximum (Read 7756 times)

northkid · « **on:** February 18, 2014, 07:52:56 AM »

Does anybody shoot both the 30-30 and 357 maximum. Is there really that much of a difference between the two. Seems like the 357 maximum is more versatile.

petemi · « **Reply #1 on:** February 18, 2014, 08:05:46 AM »

You know I shoot both. Go for the Maximum. It's a .22 LR and da tirty tirty in one package. My Handi and Marlin .30-30s seldom get shot. The maxis do it better. The little .32-20 is a step below and the .356/.358 is a bit above. If I didn't like the Maxis, we wouldn't have three of them.

Pete

Swampman · « **Reply #2 on:** February 18, 2014, 08:15:39 AM »

.30-30 ammo is very easy to find and inexpensive. .357 Max brass and ammo is very hard to find.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #3 on:** February 18, 2014, 08:24:57 AM »

the 357 mag is ''almost'' a 30-30 until you get the max reamer and brass
the 38 is what i shoot the most....even tho mine are all max now and i have plenty of brass

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #4 on:** February 18, 2014, 08:32:00 AM »

I use to have a .30-30 and a .357 max. now I have three Maxis. and no .30-30. (Handi that is It would be hard to part with the Marlin.)

revbc · « **Reply #5 on:** February 18, 2014, 08:40:39 AM »

If your going to hunt whitetail deer........................get the MAX. Bigger entry and exit = greater recovery percentage.

Plus the MAX is just cool

Jeff H · « **Reply #6 on:** February 18, 2014, 08:41:52 AM »

I agree with Pete and Swampman, so I won't be much help.

EDIT: ok, I agree with Revbc too and pretty much everyone else too now. Yeah, I won't be much use on this one.

I love the 30-30, but the Max' doesn't lose as much of its punch as you shorten the barrel. Both are easy to cast for and both are versatile when it comes to powder selection and use roughly the same weight bullets. The max works with the fastest to the slowest pistol powders and the 30-30 works with the fast(er) to the slow(er) pistol powders and quite a range of rifle powders. I am speaking in terms of cast bullets and how I have used it but look in the manuals and see which one overlaps more with components you already use - assuming you reload. One thing I consider is that the Max' uses small rifle primers - as does my .223, and everyone should have a .223.

If you're shooting factory - 30-30 all the way unless you have more time to shop for ammo and more money to buy it than I - and I don't have much.

If I wanted a six and a half pound rifle with a 22" to 24" barrel, I'd go 30-30. but I prefer five pound rifles with 16" barrels, so the 357 Max would make more sense to me. Factory Handi barrels are pretty beefy, so neither is really that light but there's always the hacksaw.

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #7 on:** February 18, 2014, 09:14:45 AM »

Plus the MAX is just cool

Aint that the truth! When I am at the range you can light off a few .30-30s and have some cartridges sitting there and no one notices.......Set out a few .45-70s or .357 maxs andlight a few off and heads turn and questions get asked.

If I had to give up all my handies but two, Those two would be my Max and my Gov.

Meese ta moose and a lot of smiles in between.

RPRNY · « **Reply #8 on:** February 18, 2014, 10:24:41 AM »

Not a Kool-Aid drinker myself. 30-30 is a reliable 150 yard rifle round. With Leverevolution and a spitzer bullet, it's a 200 yard round.

Under 100 yards, I'd prefer the Max because bigger holes are better. Outside 100, the 30-30 every time.

Dinny · « **Reply #9 on:** February 18, 2014, 10:27:14 AM »

I have had both at the same time. To me, the Maxi is my go-to gun for IN deer hunting. They're both cool and special in their own right. I think it really depends on your state's laws and the distance your shots will be. The 30-30 out ranges the Maxi by 50-100yds depending on your load.

Thanks, Dinny

Swampman · « **Reply #10 on:** February 18, 2014, 10:27:40 AM »

Quote from: RPRNY on February 18, 2014, 10:24:41 AM

Not a Kool-Aid drinker myself. 30-30 is a reliable 150 yard rifle round. With Leverevolution and a spitzer bullet, it's a 200 yard round.

Under 100 yards, I'd prefer the Max because bigger holes are better. Outside 100, the 30-30 every time.

Yep

clearwater · « **Reply #11 on:** February 18, 2014, 10:50:36 AM »

the bullets and brass are harder to find for the maxi if you want pointy bullets

You won't find range pickups like you do for the 30-30.

The maxi is cheaper to shoot if you have to buy ammo as you can use 38 special ammo.

I have a shorty maxi with a kids stock that is fun to carry.

With a nice ballistic tip, the 30-30 will shoot flatter by a noticeable amount.

Cast bullets with 7 grains of unique is a great load for the 30-30 and keeps thing cheap.

If I had only one gun , I would go with the 30-30 since I could shoot out 2-300 yards.

As a fun second gun, the maxi.

rdlange · « **Reply #12 on:** February 18, 2014, 01:21:14 PM »

Nice 30-30s just come my way more often than maxis. And they all shoot VERY well.!

When I find a old 158 in 357 mag though, I'll maxi ream it, develop a PP lead bullet load, and set it up like an old plains rifle for my daughter. Already have the furniture and sights.

If I live that long...

Spanky · « **Reply #13 on:** February 18, 2014, 02:47:13 PM »

No question... the 30-30.

Spanky

jpshaw · « **Reply #14 on:** February 18, 2014, 08:21:18 PM »

Quote from: Spanky on February 18, 2014, 02:47:13 PM

No question... the 30-30.

Ditto. I have both. The .30-30 in a Handi can be loaded to 200 yards. The versatility of the .357 is just not there. Can you shoot .38's in it? Sure but the POI is in a different ZIP code if you're sighted for the Maxi. It's just a trip to the range every time you change loads. I load my .30-30 with a spire point bullet way too long for a lever gun with RE15 to right at 300 Savage levels and just shoot everything with that load.

jeepmann1948 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 18, 2014, 08:28:19 PM »

I use the 45-70 for the little stuff and the 45-120 for armadillos and larger

Seriously both are excellent choices with the 30-30 having the edge in ammo availability. Actually I do not like either one ................I love them both !
George

Old Fart · « **Reply #16 on:** February 19, 2014, 12:08:19 AM »

Both.

Jim Stacy · « **Reply #17 on:** February 19, 2014, 12:48:06 AM »

I just bought a 30/30 from a member here and looking forward to shooting it with cast bullets . On the other hand a 125BT/max load of 4198 --- book load-- will make the old gal a 200 yard gun easily . I have a Contender in 357Max and it is a good woods hunting rig for 100 yard and under shots but not a 200 yard gun at all ! My Max shoots best with warm loads my other 30/30 shot 168RNGC cast bullets with 18.0/4759 into under 1" at 100 yards. If you have not tried the "universal 30 cal load" in you 30/30 try it , fun load ! 100 grain plinker or short jacket /10.0Unique accurate fun and will shoot close to POA for full power loads. Varmint control deluxe !! Old kid waiting for a new project !!

petemi · « **Reply #18 on:** February 19, 2014, 01:49:13 AM »

Geeze Louise Matilda:

"have a Contender in 357Max and it is a good woods hunting rig for 100 yard and under shots but not a 200 yard gun at all !"

That is just total B.S. You probably never tried it with a real load. I have every confidence in mine taking down a 200 lb buck at 300. I'll give ya a clue...don't shoot blunt pistol bullets. The little bitty .357 Magnum does what you're tallkng about and then some.

Pete

quickdtoo · « **Reply #19 on:** February 19, 2014, 01:59:54 AM »

Here's a calculated ballistic comparison of the two.

Tim

EDIT: I used the 160gr FTX in the first comparison, I should have used the 150gr Nosler BT as that is the bullet some here are using with LVR powder for the 2500fps value in their Handis, not the 160gr FTX.

FPH · « **Reply #20 on:** February 19, 2014, 02:08:42 AM »

I see the ballistics for the .30-.30, but no .357 maxi.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #21 on:** February 19, 2014, 02:19:12 AM »

I had problems with MHP trying to load the wrong pic, had to restart my PC to fix it!

Tim

Spanky · « **Reply #22 on:** February 19, 2014, 03:12:01 AM »

Thanks for the info Tim.

Like I said before, no question... 30-30.

Spanky

gcrank1 · « **Reply #23 on:** February 19, 2014, 03:12:45 AM »

Dont have an H&R in 30-30, 'just' a pre-64 Win. SRC

.......and the H&R 357 Mag because the case still holds more powder than I need for my usual sub-sonic, cast bulllet load. I have stoked it up and 'long seated' the bullet for low end 357Max performance to see that it would do, and loaded 9mm jacketed 115gr.RN as a 30Carbine equiv. and for the 30-30 loaded 32-20 equiv. on up to the fulll book loads. I know them both pretty decently, and like them both.
I really (really) like the user friendliness of the 357, and the readily available bullets with the edge being the larger dia. The 30-30 is a bottleneck case, so it takes a back seat to the straightwall 357 with carbide dies. If I ever become unhappy with the 357 I can rechamber to 357Max, 35 Rem., or the 358 (rimless) or the 356 (semi-rimmed) Win. cartridges and become even more than the 30-30 is.
So, if all I used my rifle for was hunting bigger game then the 30-30 would be a good choice (and it, too, can become a 30-40 Krag or 7.62 X 59, BTW, a fine cartridge). Or just start with a 270. 308 or 30-06.
But since the most of my shooting is fun/pleasure and a little 'varminting', the 357 works well for me, and can do much more within my self imposed restriction of 100yd on larger game.

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #24 on:** February 19, 2014, 07:45:19 AM »

Those numbers show a lot but what they don't really show in my opinion is That 180 hitting a deer at 300yards doing over 1300fps Will plow right thru a deer. That is still 200FPS faster than a .357 magnum with a 180 is at the muzzle, I've dropped several deer at 50 to 75 yards with my GP100 and 180 gr cast bullets. I'ii get the job done just fine, You just need to hold over about 6 inches higher.

RPRNY · « **Reply #25 on:** February 19, 2014, 08:05:54 AM »

Quote from: Badnews Bob on February 19, 2014, 07:45:19 AM

Those numbers show a lot but what they don't really show in my opinion is That 180 hitting a deer at 300yards doing over 1300fps Will plow right thru a deer. That is still 200FPS faster than a .357 magnum with a 180 is at the muzzle, I've dropped several deer at 50 to 75 yards with my GP100 and 180 gr cast bullets. I'ii get the job done just fine, You just need to hold over about 6 inches higher.

Perhaps, but will you hit vitals given the 16-18" drop from your 200 yard zero?

YRUpunting? · « **Reply #26 on:** February 19, 2014, 08:12:45 AM »

I think your question is relative to the circumstances. For me the 357 Maxi is almost incalculably superior to the 30-30. The Maxi is legal for deer in my state, the 30-30 is not.

If I could have used a 30-30 I probably wouldn't have ever bought built a couple Maxi's. Finding the brass was a pain. If you are thinking about going the 357 Maxi route I'd have the brass in hand before I bought the barrel.

As for the 200 yard question for the 357 Maxi. Steve proved and documented that many years ago.

http://357maximum.com/

petemi · « **Reply #27 on:** February 19, 2014, 08:43:15 AM »

I can step out on the back deck and ring the 300 yard gong anytime I want with three Maxis. I agree totally with Bob. I passed on a ten point buck a few years back because he was 250 yards away and I was carrying my Handi .44 mag before it became a .445. If I were carrying one of my .30-30s I would have let him go too. If I had the Maxi, he'd be in the freezer. Ballistics tables are wonderful. They give you a good idea of what's going on. But you can't always put it on paper in black and white. There's a lot of difference between a 150 or 170 gr. .30 cal. bullet and a 180gr. .35 cal. The .35s may slow down a bit, but they still hit like a locomotive. Yes, they are like any larger bore. You need to shoot them and learn them. It ain't a point blank 300 yard shot with a .25.06 or a .22-250.

Pete

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #28 on:** February 19, 2014, 09:05:34 AM »

Quote from: RPRNY on February 19, 2014, 08:05:54 AM

Quote from: Badnews Bob on February 19, 2014, 07:45:19 AM
Those numbers show a lot but what they don't really show in my opinion is That 180 hitting a deer at 300yards doing over 1300fps Will plow right thru a deer. That is still 200FPS faster than a .357 magnum with a 180 is at the muzzle, I've dropped several deer at 50 to 75 yards with my GP100 and 180 gr cast bullets. I'ii get the job done just fine, You just need to hold over about 6 inches higher.

Perhaps, but will you hit vitals given the 16-18" drop from your 200 yard zero?

I am absolutey certain I can put one in the vitals at 300. I shoot that far with all my rifles just so I know what they will do. Kentucky windage works.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #29 on:** February 19, 2014, 09:27:59 AM »

And a 38-55/375Win. is kinda like a '357Max Long Rifle', to quote my friend BikerBeans. There is something about getting over 35 cal. that works, and has for over a hundred years. Many have considered the 35Remmy better than the 30-30 for a long time too. I may have been messing about with big bores too long, even 30cal's are looking pretty small to me now

(and my 22Hornet days of over 3000 documented rounds seems a dream....).
I have kept a statement in mind for a long time by noted hunter and author Finn Aagaard (he, The Real Deal) to paraphrase ,'I have long gotten over trying to see how small a caliber I can take game with'.