30-30 or 357 Maximum

[petemi]

Bob, we must be the last of an old near extinct breed. .....you actually know where all your rifles are hitting at 300 yards.  That's amazing. I thought I was the only jerk around who knows what the drop was on .445 at 300.

Bob obviously knows what he's talking about.  The subject has come up many times in the past.  I compare shooting any rifle at long range....beyond what it is sighted in for....to shooting a long bow.  I can't tell you what to do, you have to KNOW where the bullet's going.  That means doing it.  Lots of times.

Pete

[Badnews Bob]

I have a Long bow also Pete.  I am not very good with it yet thou.  I need to shoot it a lot more.

[clearwater]

You all know you can't possibly kill a deer with a maxi only generating 700 ft lbs of energy at 300 yards.

[clearwater]

Bob, we must be the last of an old near extinct breed. .....you actually know where all your rifles are hitting at 300 yards.  That's amazing. I thought I was the only jerk around who knows what the drop was on .445 at 300.

Bob obviously knows what he's talking about.  The subject has come up many times in the past.  I compare shooting any rifle at long range....beyond what it is sighted in for....to shooting a long bow.  I can't tell you what to do, you have to KNOW where the bullet's going.  That means doing it.  Lots of times.

Pete

That would make the 30-30 a 400 yard gun?

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

Bob, we must be the last of an old near extinct breed. .....you actually know where all your rifles are hitting at 300 yards. ....  you have to KNOW where the bullet's going.  That means doing it.  Lots of times.

Pete

 
Does ANYONE really need a reason to shoot more?
 
I don't need a reason, I just need more time, and money...  ( I have enoug...  er.... numerous rifles too shoot right now )

[Spanky]

Big difference between shooting a gong and a deer. The gong will just hang around patiently while you lob rounds downrange at it until you figure out the 19 inches of holdover... the deer won't.

Let's be realistic here...

Numbers don't lie... faster, flatter and more versatile. The 30-30 wins every time.



Spanky

[OldSchoolRanger]

Big difference between shooting a gong and a deer. The gong will just hang around patiently while you lob rounds downrange at it until you figure out the 19 inches of holdover... the deer won't.

Let's be realistic here...

Numbers don't lie... faster, flatter and more versatile. The 30-30 wins every time.



Spanky

That's what I was trying to tell someone on another board.  He kept telling me that a 22LR was lethal on game to 300 yards, since he could hit a paper target at that distance.  I told him that if he hunted, to make sure the animal/bird he was shooting at didn't move until he managed to figure out the Kentucky windage.  He would have been better served with the proper tool (caliber).  With this in mind, I agree with Spanky, a 30-30 is the better choice.  Unless of course, you are limited to caliber choices because of law, like in the case of YRUpunting?.

Maybe I should recuse myself, since I don't own a 357Maxi, just a 357Maggy.

[northkid]

Geeze Louise Matilda: 

"have a Contender in 357Max and it is a good woods hunting rig for 100 yard and under shots but not a 200 yard gun at all !"

That is just total B.S.  You probably never tried it with a real load.  I have every confidence in mine taking down a 200 lb buck at 300.  I'll give ya a clue...don't shoot blunt pistol bullets.  The little bitty .357 Magnum does what you're tallkng about and then some.

Pete

Yup I agree with you 100 percent. I know guys that are tagging deer out 250 even 300 yards with 15 inch Encore in the 357 max, with 180,200gr bullets.

[northkid]

Big difference between shooting a gong and a deer. The gong will just hang around patiently while you lob rounds downrange at it until you figure out the 19 inches of holdover... the deer won't.

Let's be realistic here...

Numbers don't lie... faster, flatter and more versatile. The 30-30 wins every time.



Spanky

If I know I'm going to do any hunting 300 yards plus the 338 Lapua 32" comes out with 300gr and im good to 1500 meters.

[Clambo]

  Youre kidding, right?  Not trying to be disrespectful. But I know you dont really see the need to go quite that far, right?  Not that its anyones business if you do. Me?  I say knowing how to hit at distance with your own rifle is paramount, regardless of distance. Practice makes perfect, and in our game is too fun not to. I wouldnt pick either. 30-30 or. 357 Max for regular 200 yd shots but Id take one if a good one came my way.

[Badnews Bob]

Big difference between shooting a gong and a deer. The gong will just hang around patiently while you lob rounds downrange at it until you figure out the 19 inches of holdover... the deer won't.

Let's be realistic here...

Numbers don't lie... faster, flatter and more versatile. The 30-30 wins every time.



Spanky

I am being very realistic. I would shoot a deer at 300 yards with a Max.

Have I? No, And I prolly won't, Most of my hunting is done at much shorter ranges but I know I can. AT anything inside of 250 you really don't have to change your hold all that much The kill zone on a deer is 8" or so, That is a big target.

A .30-30 in truth isn't a very good choice for 300 yards either. 6 inches of hold over at 300 isn't much of a difference to me.

If I know I will have a good chance at a shot over 200 I will take  my .280 or .308 maybe even the .45-70
 
I have shot white tails with a .30-30 and a .357 max,  The max destroys less meat and puts a deer on the ground faster almost every time as compared to the .30 cal. 

A small dia bullet going fast  =  blood shot meat.  Not good.

A heavy fat bullet going slow = Less blood shot meat every time........I like that.

[gcrank1]

I cant help but notice that so many of these conversations turn into talk more akin to sniping than the real world. I grant that some guys have only long, open ground and deal with it correctly or miss, but the stats still show, unless I missed the memo, that most deer are taken within 75yd.'s.......my woods is more like 50 max. Somehow it moves into extremes..........
Establish your parameters, then pick the the best tool to do your job. Its the same thing for hammers or guns.
Now if the OP had posted '30-30 or 357Max for 200yd and beyond' I could see how we got here.
Guess Im a little grumpy today........

[Badnews Bob]

I agree gcrank. I bet I've not had to take a shot over 150 yards in the past 15 years more than 3 or 4 times.  Most of my shots have been within 50 yards.  I like to get'em in close. The last one was at 15 yards and he ran towards me after hit.  I only had to drag him 20 yards or so to put him in my truck.  All of my blinds  and stands are set up within Bow range of where I think they will be.

[petemi]

I don't think the last deer I shot was 25 yards away......but  my wife busted a woodchuck a while back at a range finder measured 440 yards.  He coulda been a 10 point buck as well as a woodchuck.  I can shoot into a safe berm 300 yards off my back deck  I don't think I own a firearm that hasn't been shot at the gongs up there.  I've even chucked slugs up there with the scatter guns and muzzle loaders...including flintlocks.  Every rifle ever made by mankind shoots a rainbow.  Some much flatter than others, granted, but still a rainbow.  All I say is take the time....and yes money...and learn your guns. All of them.

I like to hang around the County Range a week or two before deer season.  I watch folks breaking out rifles, taking one or two shots at a 100 yard target and going home. I doubt if one out of five could tell you where that bullet was going to be at 25, 50, 150, or 300.  The box of ammo is probably priced at 7.95,  that's how long they've had it.  I guess I'm a snob, but I can tell you what the holdover or under will be for just about everything I shoot.  I have a very distinct advantage.  I can shoot anytime weather and honey dos permit.

One more thing.  No, a bullet that can punch a hole in paper at 500 yards is not certain to kill something that far.  But then there are rifles and bullets that can and do kill as far as you can see.  I should add, the "100 yard woods rifle", the .45-70 is among them.  Yes, you have to "walk" a .45-70 out there to learn what it's doing, but once there you can duplicate the accuracy from just about any other rifle.  The Handi .45-70 is an accurate, long range beast...get on it and learn it.

Pete

[Clambo]

I am generally opposed to the whole big game sniping thing. There are many guys and guns that can certainly do it but there are many more who do not have the skills but think they do. That leads to lost and wounded animals. Even amongst those who do possess the skills to shoot accurately at long range, a lot can go wrong between  the shot and the target. That also leads to wounded and lost animals.
 Where I see the real problem leads me clear back to personal and social values in modern times. Im not sure that can be fixed. I see a lot of long range " hunting " as part of the whole " tactical "  scene. They use the " hunting " as a thinly disguised veneer as cover and substitute for their real fixation which in this case would be the sniping of humans. There is a great, sad, and sickening fixation in the shooting world nowdays along those lines. Im sure Ill catch flak for this opinion but its true. Back in the day the emphasis was not about shooting people. At lesst mine wasnt. My firearm choices were not made around the best mankiller of the week. They still arent. Thats why I am coming to really love greybeard, its one of the few boards I know of that is not ruled by " tacticool " . Give me a single shot any day. Guess in my older age Im trying to turn the clock in my life back to a simpler time. Heck, I know I am. My wife and I both are both into downward mobility and planning for our final home in Montana.

[bigvarmnt]

I just took a shot at a coyote in front of my 300 yd backstop the other night with a 223, only thing that was Handi. Only got the 4-wheeler to go about 30yds before I figured out there was too much snow. Got it back in the garage and started walking   After stopping a couple of times to see if I'd had a heart attack I didn't find any sign of a hit or a miss or the coyote. Didn't really want to find him because I'd have to drag him back and I'm pretty sure my wife or EMS would have had to come get me. Only had the S.L. leaned against the patio door frame so it wasn't a very good rest after running to get the rifle and loading it. Doubt I would have hit it with my Max. If you're up to tracking and dragging critters go for the long shots. I have to admit I don't know my rifles, ranges and rainbows enough. But I'll shoot at the coyotes at any range to try to protect my pups
I definitely need more practice. There was a deer skin and bones laying behind the backstop. I think that is where he was headed. He had a nice coat I would have liked to take from him
I have the 30-30 and the Max, I'll keep both. Think I'd like that shot over with the 30-30 and a pointy bullet

[gcrank1]

Keep yer eyes on the crows circlin', it might show where it went down (if it matters anymore). If you did get it then the 30-30 probably wouldnt have done any better.
Got snowshoes?

[bigvarmnt]

They say this is the most snow we've had since 82. I should have known better but I hit one in front of the 200 yd back stop, freehand a couple yrs ago and he went about 30 yds into the woods where I found him. I used a Varmint Grenade and at close to 300 yds may not have been the best bullet   It's killed a couple for me before. I haven't shot the 30-30 much so probably was just a hurried shot and wouldn't have mattered. I hope to play with the 30-30 and the max at longer range but on jugs mostly. I think the shorter range is better for most shooters with the two carts. mentioned. For deer and such. Trackin sucks especially at or near dark   I've only shot 38 Specials out of my Max. so depends on regs. and what you want to do with them, which is the right choice.

[gcrank1]

Get grocery store throw outs of canned veggies to use as targets. A good target size, they can spew if you hit 'em with enough bullet, and the mess is biodegradable other than the can you need to retrieve.

[colt1960]

The way I see it is why wonder which is best for whatever your doing when you can just get them both and not worry about it. Most of my hunting is not much more than 100yd shots anyway. If you cast your own bullets and reload your rounds there both great. Im sure alot more deer have been taken at less than 100yds than over. I just got a 357mag. handi a couple of mo. back. I purchased 300rds of maxi brass about a year ago along with a set of maxi rcbs dies. now I just need to get on the reamer list. I purchased 500 rds of Win 30-30 brass about 4 mo. ago and will get a barrel when the opportunity presents itself. I think there both great. Rick!

[scattershot]

Well, petemi, that's some shootin'! I don't think I could SEE a woodchuck at 440 yards!

[petemi]

Well, petemi, that's some shootin'! I don't think I could SEE a woodchuck at 440 yards!

I can't see either, that was why she took the shot with her young eyes and .270 700 Mountain Rifle and a hand loaded 90gr. HPBT.  She pulled a chair up to the deck rail and rested on that.  It took her ten or twelve minutes to squeeze it off, but when she did, he was an empty jelly bag

Pete

[RPRNY]

Pete, that's just cool by any definition!

[petemi]

She usually shoots that rifle at the 300s.  She said she put the crosshairs about an inch or so over his head when he sat up and let her rip.  She just had an eye exam and is beginning to get cataracts.  She wants them gone as soon as possible.

Pete

[Jim Stacy]

Well Pete say what you will . I do not consider a 10" 357 Max a 300 yard pistol or did you miss that part that it was a 10" 357 max starting at 1650 or so with a 180XTP. The Hornady SSP's were superior but they and gone now. I'm glad you have deer to shoot at at 300 yards ,I prefer to hunt then instead of shooting at them. I may err to the conseverative side but that comes from 60 years of hunting. I know pistols will shoot a long way ,I was a silhoutte competitor where hitting the metal animal at 200 meters was all we did. long range shooting yes I've done some at metal animals that do not wander off and die later. Beware calling the BS you may reap what you sow.

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

She usually shoots that rifle at the 300s.  She said she put the crosshairs about an inch or so over his head when he sat up and let her rip.  She just had an eye exam and is beginning to get cataracts.  She wants them gone as soon as possible.

Pete

I've got the onset of cataracts
2 years ago, I was 30/20 with glasses, 15/20 without (almost 20/20 but have astigmatism)
last year, I got glasses and stayed at 30/20 with, but dropped to 15/20 or less
my latest eye check, without glasses, I can't read the 10/20 line much...   reading magazines is impossible without glasses or an aperture
my opthomologist appt is in 3 months or so...   Regular Dr can just see them with his tools...
 
I so BADLY want the surgery, but will probably have to wait another 2-3 years.   But at least by then, they should have multi-focal implants perfected.

[gcrank1]

Sounds kinda like mine.....some days are harder than others with open or peeps, yet I keep trying (use it or lose it?). If I keep within about a max 3sec. 'window' to fire I do better, but have to watch out I dont snatch the trigger to hurry the shot.
Gettin' old ain't for..... much good.....

[hoytcanon]

My first answer is BOTH (if you can)... BUT, if you can't then get the .30/30...

I load my turdy-turdy down with Trail Boss and 160 RN cast and crank it up with 150 BT's and LVR... VERY versatile... and as nice as the Maxi is to shoot, the .30/30 is pretty much as nice, brass and bullets are more common... and as said before all of my .30/30's are accurate and longer distances than my Maxi... JMO.

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

Gettin' old ain't for..... much good.....

Hey, I'm only 50
 
I'm hoping to go another 40 years before I get "old"
 
but I'm already crotchity

[BAGTIC]

I have .357, .357 Maxi, .30-30, .44 Mag, .445, 45-70.. and a few others.

The maxi is more versatile and more fun. Around here almost all deer are taken at under 100 yards and I feel confident to about 200 with the Maxi. Shooting everything from 38 Special to Maxi the 357 Maxi is popular with everyone from kids and ladies to senior citizens. I even shoot round balls in it for small game and fun plinking, something that is not as practical with a 30-30. It is also cheaper to load for.