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Offline ousooners1baby

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Need firing pin help
« on: February 18, 2014, 09:21:29 AM »
Long story short.  I bought the 223 I found at the pawn shop. Not bad condition but I noticed before I walked out the door that it felt like it had a trigger job done.  I told them I thot the pin was a little short.  Of course, the dude dry fired it and said see it works!  I asked him to not do that again please.  Anyway, it does place a small indention but will not fire.  I tried twice on same bullet with same results.  I did not try another shell though.  I took the barrel off and put it on my 308 frame and Boom!  Do you think it can be fixed? 
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Offline tacklebury

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Re: Need firing pin help
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2014, 09:32:14 AM »
In the faq there is an instruction on disassembling the action.  One thing you could do is get a new pin and install it.  You might check the transfer bar also and make sure it's getting good contact.  If you have the barrel off the frame, hold down on the trigger and push on the hammer and measure how far it sticks out of the frame.  If you get good protrusion, it could be a faulty transfer bar not making contact.  Pin is the bottom one on this page I believe:

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/ad/1161540.htm#279230B
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Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.

Offline Jeff H

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Re: Need firing pin help
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2014, 09:38:27 AM »
It could also be that the "trigger job" is inducing you to not follow through with the trigger pull.  If you stop pulling when it breaks, the transfer bar may not be all the way up.  I believe this is mentioned in the FAQs, but it has been mentioned here in posts in any case.  I have had it happen on New Model Ruger single-actions as well.


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Offline gcrank1

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Re: Need firing pin help
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2014, 11:39:35 AM »
It can all be fixed cheaply and easily. Previous owners loss is your gain.
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Offline ousooners1baby

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Re: Need firing pin help
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2014, 12:25:20 PM »
Well I was going to call you crazy but it does look as if it sticks out a little farther when held down and pushed.
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Offline Ranger99

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Re: Need firing pin help
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2014, 12:47:39 PM »
prime an empty and give
it a try
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18 MINUTES.  . . . . . .

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Need firing pin help
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2014, 12:52:01 PM »
Could be one or more issues, loose barrel on the first frame, weak hammer spring, bad transfer bar, too light a trigger pull, fixes for all of these issues are covered in the FAQs failure to fire(FTF) and/or misfire links.

Tim
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Offline hpdrifter

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Re: Need firing pin help
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2014, 09:44:55 PM »
Just a wild guess: check the top of your transfer bar;flat or angular?
 
If flat, open barrel, cock hammer, pull trigger and let down hammer slowly while keeping trigger pulled/engaged.  Does the transfer bar stop even with the top of the firing pin?  If so, the only remedy that I know of is to send it back to factory and get it repaired.  I haven't been able to find a transfer bar for replacement.  I just bought a Partner 20 gauge for $100(ejector), the barrel fits my 30-30 frame so it MIGHT become a donor for parts one of these days.
 
If it's an angular fp, I can't really help you anymore than these other gentlemen have.
 
Transfer bar(flat top) is the ONLY problem I've had with FTF issue.
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Offline ousooners1baby

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Re: Need firing pin help
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2014, 02:40:44 AM »
Here is what i know.  The barrel shoots in another frame.  It is an ejector but the bullet looks a little recessed in to me. I mean it looks as if it drops in a little far. It does seem to lock up fine Tim.  I will check out all of your suggestions on this gun.  I will prolly put another barrel on the questionable frame and see if it fires also.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Need firing pin help
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2014, 02:46:38 AM »
Check for a loose barrel without the forend installed, the forend can hide any looseness making it seem to be tight. Firing pin could just be jammed up and needs a little TLC or it just doesn't have sufficient travel, both easily fixed. A weak hammer spring or bad t-bar (both very common) would be at the top of my list as long as the firing pin is free and has sufficient travel, I like ~.050-.060" protrusion.

Tim
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: Need firing pin help
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2014, 02:51:26 AM »
+ 1 on that 'lock up check' without the forstock first, then,
Do you have a dial indicator?, If not, how about a set of feeler gauges?
What you should do is:
Open it
Cock it
While holding the hammer pull the trigger and let the hammer down to give its full firing pin protrusion (as it would be firing)
Measure the protrusion from the face of the standing breech (you can 'eyeball' this with the feeler gauge's in good light, stacking some if need be)
Tell us what you get
Next:
If the chamber is a bit deep you do not want to full length resize, only enough to get them to chamber up flush; back off the die and just kiss the shoulder established on the fired cases, then 1/4th turn more
This will keep those cases filling the chamber and may make your original frame work.
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"Halt while I adjust my accoutrements!"
      ><   ->
We are only temporary caretakers of the past heading toward an uncertain future
22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
357Mag Schuetzen Special
45-70  SS Ultra Hunter with UV cin.lam. wood
12ga. 'Ol' Ugly OverKill', Buck barrel c/w  SpeedStock  and swap 28" x Full bird barrel, 1974

Offline ousooners1baby

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Re: Need firing pin help
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2014, 06:44:04 AM »
I love this team!  I will report later. Thanks.
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Offline ousooners1baby

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Re: Need firing pin help
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2014, 04:25:57 AM »
So I noticed a few things the other day.  One, the transfer bar is loose and the pin on the receiver is not pushed in where it needs to be.  Since, I can sometimes jump before I look, I knocked that pin out and a spring came out.  Not the spring I expected to see.  How in the world do I get this back in there?
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Need firing pin help
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2014, 04:57:15 AM »
That's the hammer spring, download Perklo's trigger work instructions to replace the transfer bar if needed and get it all back together. The t-bar is a two piece component, hinged in the middle, if the top half is floppy loose sideways, it may be ready to fall apart, sometimes the pin holding them together can be repeened, but it's best to replace it while you're working on it, H&R has the part, it's called a striker assembly, if they won't sell you one, contact Brian56.

Tim

www.perkloafm.com

http://www.hr1871.com/documents/manuals/new/Handi-Rifle.pdf
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Offline ousooners1baby

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Re: Need firing pin help
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2014, 07:01:37 AM »
OK.  I am trying really hard here and getting beyond frustrated.  Mostly because I punched that pin out and the parts came out before I could see how they were in.  From the instructions I can't understand where the small spring goes in at.  I need instructions for the "if you do what you should not do".  Piece by piece. I have the trigger assemblt wit a slave pin in it now.  I have nothing else back together and can't for the life of me tell what should go together next. Help please!
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Offline ousooners1baby

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Re: Need firing pin help
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2014, 07:24:50 AM »
Alright, let me explain where I am at.  I have the catch/lifter assembly with a slave in.  I have the trigger slaved also.  I am not sure which pice goes back in first.  Do you put the catch/lifter back in first or the hammer or the release?  Man, I have really fouled this up.  Would have been much better had I followed the slave design first.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Need firing pin help
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2014, 08:15:29 AM »
The lifter and latch has to go in first, then hammer and spring, then trigger group, it's all explained in detail in Perklo's download at the link I post earlier, it has detailed pics as well, part 2 covers reassembly.

Tim

http://www.perkloafm.com/pdf/Handi_instr_one.pdf

http://www.perkloafm.com/pdf/Handi_instr_twob.pdf
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Offline ousooners1baby

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Re: Need firing pin help
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2014, 12:01:58 PM »
Welp, I got it thanks. I am going to take this apart again and put a short video together.  About a 20 minute job if ya have the parts needed. Not countin the time you take honing on your pieces. Preciate it all. 


Now, the hammer is frikkin tight.  Everything seems to lock up better now also.  Tomorrow we find out if the firing pin is any good.  It is very worn.  I did a bit of honing but I think it may be beyond repair.
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