Author Topic: What's so Top Secret.......  (Read 3438 times)

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Offline petemi

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What's so Top Secret.......
« on: February 26, 2014, 12:58:08 AM »
.......about serial numbers?  Not just here, but on other forums, people show serial numbers as, for example, HX293xxx.

Is there some kind of security risk that I don't understand with posting the entire number?  Please enlighten me.

Pete
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Offline MAN - GA

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Re: What's so Top Secret.......
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2014, 03:30:20 AM »
I think it is a subconscious thing or someone doesn't want the NSA to be looking thru GBO pictures to figure out and track our guns.  I will go out on a limb here and assume that all of the transfer forms are still held at the place of purchase and not entered into a database yet by the Feds.  I guess some states may do a database, but I was still under the impression the Feds do not.  I would like to hear other ideas out there.

Offline ousooners1baby

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Re: What's so Top Secret.......
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2014, 03:59:50 AM »
well, i guess if you showed me picture of your gun, your serial number also, it would be easier for me to say "my gun was stolen, here is the serial".

Thanks, Jer

Offline twoshooter

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Re: What's so Top Secret.......
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2014, 04:28:06 AM »
That would be my first guess also. Also it could be gathered in mega data collection and if you sold, lost or swapped it and it later came up in a crime somewhere, you could be the first suspect when it shows in your post. It could also maybe be backtracked to an area somehow restricted and cause you problems. There really is no reason to show (at least with handi's) more than the prefix for dating purposes.
1000 years ago Men KNEW the Earth was the center of the Universe.....500 years ago Men KNEW the world was flat....... 15 minutes ago you KNEW man was alone in the universe.... Just IMAGINE what we will know tomorrow !! "K"- from Men in Black.

Offline Trophy Tom

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Re: What's so Top Secret.......
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2014, 04:45:10 AM »
How do you protect yourself when buying swapping from a person or pawn shop


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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: What's so Top Secret.......
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2014, 04:49:30 AM »
well, i guess if you showed me picture of your gun, your serial number also, it would be easier for me to say "my gun was stolen, here is the serial".



I was thinking that also.
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Offline petemi

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Re: What's so Top Secret.......
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2014, 05:40:01 AM »
Thanks guys.  You brought up stuff I hadn't thought about.  I guess I'm still super old fashioned.  I've always taken people at face value, trusting them first.  I seldom if ever got bit, but the world has certainly changed.  Living in a comparatively remote area we don't feel that impact as you would in the cities I'm sure.  Here, a man's word is his honor and business is still done with a handshake.....That's one of the reasons I'm here weathering this worst winter in years.

Pete
Keep both eyes open and make the first shot good.
The growing Handi/Sportster/Pardner/Topper Family:  .22 WMR, .22-250. 223, Two Superlight 7mm-08s and one .243, .30-30,  .308, 32-20, 18 inch .356/.358 Win., Two 16.5 inch .357 Max., 18 inch 38-55 BC Carbine, 16.5 inch .445 Super Mag., .45LC, 16.5 and 22 inch .45-70s, .50 Huntsman SS, .410, 20 ga., 12 ga., 20 ga. Pardner Pump, Versa-Pack .410 - .22
[size=7.4 pt]PLEASE DONATE TO THE GBO SERVER FUND  We're closer to the goal but not there yet, we can still use more donations, thanks

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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: What's so Top Secret.......
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2014, 05:43:12 AM »
If you saw some of the people around here and took them at face value you would run .
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Offline HWB13

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Re: What's so Top Secret.......
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2014, 05:56:48 AM »
I guess I'm just a sheep.  I have always seen others do it so I did too. Baahh ???
Kevin   
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Offline Ol BW

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Re: What's so Top Secret.......
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2014, 06:16:02 AM »
The serial number can be used or manipulated in a number of ways from what I understand.  Also, errors in how stolen guns are recorded or reported in NICS can cause issues.  If someone has your serial they can report it stolen.  They may not get the gun but it can cause a bunch of headache for you.

BW

Offline jeepmann1948

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Re: What's so Top Secret.......
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2014, 06:39:50 AM »
I just figured most of the old geezers on here could not either see all the numbers  or cannot read them!:) But BW's answer makes the most sense by the way.
George
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Offline cjrjck

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Re: What's so Top Secret.......
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2014, 07:14:34 AM »
I have seen this topic beaten to death on other web sites. Every reason mentioned from insurance fraud to somebody reporting their gun stolen (when it is actually your gun), and even somebody selling the gun online using your pics. None hold water in the long run since somebody would have to be able to prove the gun you have is theirs and not yours. A copy of a picture you posted online isn't going to do it. Probably the one reason that does hold water is it eliminates any potential hassle that might arise should someone try pull one of the schemes listed above.

Offline spruce

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Re: What's so Top Secret.......
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2014, 08:11:52 AM »
Imagine some nut-case reporting the gun stolen - for whatever reason, a prank, or who knows why.
 
Then imagine yourself out hunting and you encounter a CO who checks your license, runs you to see if you are wanted, and also runs the serial number of your gun.  All perfectly normal happenings during a contact.
 
Now imagine the inconvience (spending the night in jail, posting bond, contacting an attorney) to you and the expense you probably will incur over the next weeks or months while you try and prove yourself the rightful owner of the gun.
 
It's generally taken for granted only the rightful owner of the gun would have the serial number - unless someone can prove otherwise.

Offline glockmeister

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Re: What's so Top Secret.......
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2014, 09:02:10 AM »
OL BW and spruce have hit the nail on the head. I was in law enforcement for 36 years and saw many time where someone used the system to screwover someone. You can eventually prove the gun is yours but in the meantime the gun coulb be in an evidence locker for some time UNTIL you Prove you are the rightfull owner. While in evidence, the gun will not recieve any maintenance or care of any kind, your nice gun might be returned to you as a rust bucket, not a nice thought. The worst part about it is there is not much you can do about it, you're hosed. Y'all can do what you want, but as for me lots of XXs in any serial noumber of any of my guns. Y'all take care, John.
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Offline twoshooter

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Re: What's so Top Secret.......
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2014, 09:02:31 AM »
Many of you may be just modest, or may not have had contact with the outside world. When I first worked for the department of corrections as a guard I chatted with the prisoners, making small talk, when an old sergeant nailed me by the collar and pulled me aside. He said boy he was pumping you like a fire truck, what the hell are you thinking ? Don't you think they have friends and family outside? They will know where you live, what your kids look like, how you get along with in-laws, etc etc. You don't think they might get "visits" out there ?
   When I worked for department of social services I cannot tell you how many hotline calls we had from parents in divorce proceedings accusing the other of abuse and neglect, or domestic violence. You get a restraining order issued and there goes your CCW.
   My neighbor and good friend who decided to get hard nosed and refused to bail out his daughter on a drug charge was charged with molesting his grand daughter. Two years and $75,000 worth of attorney's fees later the charge was dropped but his grand children and $75K were permanently gone.
    The only reason this has not happened more is that no one on Bloomberg's staff or MSNBC has stooped so low as to browse such a low level site. You need either documentation on everything or plausible deniability . Here we are straight forward because anything else would destroy our ability to trade with one another or trust information  on loads, tools, gunsmithing etc. Can you imagine the results from misprints in a reloading manual ?? Like Paul Harvey used to say- we are not all one world.

    Knowledge IS power, and many will know exactly how and when to exploit it. 
1000 years ago Men KNEW the Earth was the center of the Universe.....500 years ago Men KNEW the world was flat....... 15 minutes ago you KNEW man was alone in the universe.... Just IMAGINE what we will know tomorrow !! "K"- from Men in Black.

Offline tacklebury

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Re: What's so Top Secret.......
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2014, 10:41:57 AM »
The #1 reason is to avoid false claims of stolen property.  For a while there was a scam online where people would look up serial numbers and report them stolen to their local police.  Of course if you have a good trail including receipts and such for the guns you own, you are probably fine.  Several people nearly got put away with their own firearms.  #2 reason is similar and people will claim to their insurance company that a firearm was stolen.  They get a cash disbursement and the insurance watches for that serial number to come up.  If it does, they then have to fight a claim denial and get their money back from the original person, but they often try to get the firearm confiscated by police.  Can get pretty messy and especiallly with Heirlooms, there's often little or no paperwork.  ;)
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: What's so Top Secret.......
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2014, 08:52:22 PM »
FWIW , if you want a good insurance list for guns or other valuables go to a US Customs office and get the form that notes your ownership. They stamp and sign that the list is valid and they look at all items ( do not enter the office with guns until told to do so) They give you all copies so no list is retained. The purpose of the list is so you can take valuable items out of the country and return with then and not be taxed on them. But it is a great way to show ownership . I did the guns I take hunting in Canada. 
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Offline twoshooter

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Re: What's so Top Secret.......
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2014, 10:12:02 PM »
Another good way with todays high resolution cameras is like "proof of life " pictures, a picture of you, or your picture ID, your firearms, and a current newspaper .
1000 years ago Men KNEW the Earth was the center of the Universe.....500 years ago Men KNEW the world was flat....... 15 minutes ago you KNEW man was alone in the universe.... Just IMAGINE what we will know tomorrow !! "K"- from Men in Black.

Offline 44 Man

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Re: What's so Top Secret.......
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2014, 10:23:40 PM »
I got into a hassle one time when I went to register a handgun I had bought.  Michigan requires all handguns to be registered with the state.  :(  I bought one from a large local dealer who I know 'runs' all the guns it takes in on trade to be sure it's not receiving 'stolen' merchandise.  So I took it to the sherriff's dept and the serial number matched a gun that was on the stolen list.  It was a different make and model, but that part didn't seem to penetrate their thinking.  I had a tough time for a bit until one of their own said, 'hey guys, this isn't the gun".  ( duh, same thing I had been telling them)  So serial numbers can get you in trouble.  (Or people who don't think, can get you in trouble!)  44 Man
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Offline MAN - GA

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Re: What's so Top Secret.......
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2014, 10:37:42 PM »
I must live a sheltered life and not even know it - might be buying a newspaper on the way home from work this evening and taking "selfies" with all my guns to document what is MINE.  Thanks for the info here I really had never thought about it from all the perspectives offered up on this post.

Offline petemi

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Re: What's so Top Secret.......
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2014, 11:23:33 PM »
I'm really glad I asked this question.  I've never thought of most of these things.

We go to Sault Ste. Marie, MI fairly frequently and there is a U.S. Customs office there.  With the gun cases I have, Three trips over there would get it all done.  I then could take any of them to Canada without problems coming home, as well as giving me a documented list.

Pete
Keep both eyes open and make the first shot good.
The growing Handi/Sportster/Pardner/Topper Family:  .22 WMR, .22-250. 223, Two Superlight 7mm-08s and one .243, .30-30,  .308, 32-20, 18 inch .356/.358 Win., Two 16.5 inch .357 Max., 18 inch 38-55 BC Carbine, 16.5 inch .445 Super Mag., .45LC, 16.5 and 22 inch .45-70s, .50 Huntsman SS, .410, 20 ga., 12 ga., 20 ga. Pardner Pump, Versa-Pack .410 - .22
[size=7.4 pt]PLEASE DONATE TO THE GBO SERVER FUND  We're closer to the goal but not there yet, we can still use more donations, thanks

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,191112.msg1098959491.html#msg1098959491

Offline jackddavis

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Re: What's so Top Secret.......
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2014, 01:15:42 AM »
Another good way to provide a dated proof of ownership is documentation mailed to yourself registered in a sealed envelope, then never opened until proof is needed.
Jack

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Offline jackddavis

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Re: What's so Top Secret.......
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2014, 01:20:07 AM »
Another good way with todays high resolution cameras is like "proof of life " pictures, a picture of you, or your picture ID, your firearms, and a current newspaper .

Wouldn't this be a good way to claim ownership of a gun just stolen? Just take a photo of the gun and an older newspaper to predate the theft.
Jack

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Offline twoshooter

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Re: What's so Top Secret.......
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2014, 02:44:30 AM »
There are always complications..... but if someone had stolen the gun- taken with the OLD paper- and you had one with a NEWER paper, and then they had the gun back- how did they get it back from YOU after the NEW picture ? If the gun did not show up as stolen on the date you took your picture, then one can assume you have legal ownership at that time. It is like registering a gun but in a way that no one but yourself has access to. I also put something with a phone number or name written on it inside the stock or grip panel. If there is ever a question of ownership in the field I can simply state : take apart the gun, can YOU tell me what we will find? I CAN.
1000 years ago Men KNEW the Earth was the center of the Universe.....500 years ago Men KNEW the world was flat....... 15 minutes ago you KNEW man was alone in the universe.... Just IMAGINE what we will know tomorrow !! "K"- from Men in Black.

Offline Bayway

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Re: What's so Top Secret.......
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2014, 03:17:33 AM »
A guy could go to the local gun shop right now and copy down all the serial numbers he wanted. You buy the gun and sometime later the guy reports it stolen for insurance fraud. You're still back at square one. Having the FFL confirm the buy or a Customs Form 4457 from your trip to Canada only proves you possessed or owned the gun at one time. It doesn't prove you did not sell it later. The police are not likely to arrest you if the Handi Rifle you are hunting with shows up stolen unless you are using it to commit a crime or are a convicted felon who cannot possess a firearm. Likely they will confiscate it until the issue can be resolved. The only reason to hide the serial number in a photo is to reduce the likelihood of a hassle later on.

Offline BBF

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Re: What's so Top Secret.......
« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2014, 03:31:55 AM »
I'm really glad I asked this question.  I've never thought of most of these things.

We go to Sault Ste. Marie, MI fairly frequently and there is a U.S. Customs office there.  With the gun cases I have, Three trips over there would get it all done.  I then could take any of them to Canada without problems coming home, as well as giving me a documented list.

Pete

We (Canada) records all that info when you bring your firearm into the country for a modest price at that. ;D ;D
 
I presume you know handguns and any other restricted or Heaven forbid a prohibited weapon are a real NO NO up here.
 
Sault St. Marie hmm, I might move near that place on my side of the Border.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: What's so Top Secret.......
« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2014, 03:34:39 AM »
BBF 50 bucks is not so cheap . And the questions about other guns you own are invasive.
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Offline Ol BW

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Re: What's so Top Secret.......
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2014, 05:14:44 AM »
I must live a sheltered life and not even know it - might be buying a newspaper on the way home from work this evening and taking "selfies" with all my guns to document what is MINE.  Thanks for the info here I really had never thought about it from all the perspectives offered up on this post.

I'm gonna go home and set up a "Family Photo" with me sitting in the middle of all my guns!:D:D

I have heard another good way to document ownership is any record of repair, when you sent it in to the manufacturer for repair etc.

BW

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: What's so Top Secret.......
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2014, 05:25:05 AM »
So is it a good idea to put all ser. #'s on a list saved on your computer ? Wouldn't the govt. have the list if you needed it since they capture all your info ? Better do it every 5 years as that is how long they save the info.  ::)
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Offline twoshooter

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Re: What's so Top Secret.......
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2014, 07:39:32 AM »
Computers are convenient. Unless you are hacked. Or without power.  Can be erased by accident. No, important documents you need in a safe deposit box, and an extra copy in a handy place you can grab, one that a burglar, snooper or even police could find easily, in a portable waterproof container. Not quite paranoid :o ....just abundantly prudent.  ;)
1000 years ago Men KNEW the Earth was the center of the Universe.....500 years ago Men KNEW the world was flat....... 15 minutes ago you KNEW man was alone in the universe.... Just IMAGINE what we will know tomorrow !! "K"- from Men in Black.