Author Topic: Looking for a 'handi-holic' nearby. (Read 2611 times)

kawasakifreak77 · « **on:** February 27, 2014, 05:10:31 PM »

So I've got the pieces to build me a .35 Remington Handi. I've been lurking all over the FAQs for a month or two now & grasp the concept of barrel fitting I believe.

So I go to put this barrel (new from a .444 combo) to my frame (2002 SB2) & it's not even close!

I started taking a little out of the pivot area & after doing this a few times it doesn't seem like I'm gaining any ground. I stopped as I started getting nervous I might be doing something wrong.

I'm hoping there's an experienced member nearby that can verify what I'm doing. As hard as it was to score the .35 barrel I sure don't want to mess this up!

I'm not a mechanical dofus by any means. I've built & raced my own flat track motorcycles, perform simpler maintainence on my plane & work in a machine shop on graveyards.

I'm not asking someone to do this for me. I just would like some coaching. I'd be more than glad to trade your experience for whatever you'd like. Cash, good beer, reloading components, etc.

I'm located in Mcpherson Ks & am willing to drive at least an hour or two or more to assure this gets done properly.

Any help greatly appreciated!

Ol BW · « **Reply #1 on:** February 27, 2014, 06:47:17 PM »

Too bad I'm not closer, a beer sounds good!

All kidding aside, while fitting, especially modifying the pivot point, it will seem like your not getting there until you do, then it goes downhill QUICK! With what little description you gave, sounds like you are on the right track, just go slow and check often. I know you said you were a machinist but it is worth repeating: remember when you get close we are talking about thousandths (.001) of an inch of material at a time.

Another thing that has bit me in the ass was making sure you are sanding/filing square with the lug so you take the same amount off both sides. I kept going and didn't think I was getting anywhere and decided to switch hands and sand from the opposite side. I found out quick that I had taken off too much on the first side as after a few strokes, it dropped in with wiggle room. It only wiggled to one side, which meant I had taken too much off the opposite side.

One more thing to watch is to make sure when you are trying the fit, watch to be sure you are getting the pin for the ejector/extractor in its slot and that it is not holding you back from closing. I could see where that might create a problem.

I know all of this sounds like basic "no brain" info but when I am troubleshooting I start with the basics first.

But don't worry, if you go over a couple of thousandths you can always stop, drink one of those beers and then cut the beer can up for a shim!

BW

kawasakifreak77 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 27, 2014, 07:34:31 PM »

Yeah those are the things going through my head. I THINK I'm doing this right, but I don't want to eat a $350 project on 'I think...'

& for comparison, I work with .0001" so thanks for putting the importance of this into something I understand. Sometimes .001" is nothing, sometimes it's a mile!

I'm out in my garage looking at this & thinking to myself as I looked at the two barrels, if I knew what a certain deminsion on the original barrel I could compare it to the new one & adjust.

I wrapped a 5/16" rod in heavy sand paper until it was a hair over .375", which is what the FAQs said the pivot pin in the received is. I took a little out of the front of the lug under the barrel & tried it again. Still a mile away from locking up. I did notice at this point that I did have the deal that activates the extractor where it should go.

I repeat this maybe half a dozen times. Being sure to keep taking material as evenly as possible. I had some dycum to lay in there & verify that I was getting contact clear across the front of the lug against the pivot pin.

Still then, over the whole process it seemed as if I had made zero progress. I've taught myself many things in the past out of shear desperation & even though I'm quite crafty now, my bank account has suffered several times because of this. Because of that, now I know when I need to stop for help.

kawasakifreak77 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 27, 2014, 07:37:52 PM »

Oh... & good beer does not come in a can!

So a shim is out of the question!

Fred McIntire · « **Reply #4 on:** February 27, 2014, 08:03:45 PM »

It may not be the pivot pin that is causing it not to lock up. It could be the fit of the latch mechanism.

Is it closing and just not locking up, or is it not closing ?

petemi · « **Reply #5 on:** February 27, 2014, 08:34:21 PM »

When you get your problems solved, consider reaming that .35 barrel to .356 Your handy will shoot both .356 and .358 safely and give you a lot more rifle. Unfortunately, all the recent posts on the conversion are still lost, but a bunch of us have done it in the past year or so and are here to help. There's some older in formation available here if you search .356/.358.

Here's a good read: http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/358_wcf.htm

Pete

troy5775 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 27, 2014, 09:05:11 PM »

What I have done in the past is to get an extra pivot pin and turn it down so as not to damage anything expensive. I will chuck it up and use fine emery cloth and check it often.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #7 on:** February 27, 2014, 09:25:47 PM »

Quote from: Fred McIntire on February 27, 2014, 08:03:45 PM

It may not be the pivot pin that is causing it not to lock up. It could be the fit of the latch mechanism.

Is it closing and just not locking up, or is it not closing ?

What Fred said!!

I'm a little slow to begin with but I have no idea what you mean by "it's not even close." I wasn't concerned until you said you hadn't made any progress during the process... $:-\$ 'course I don't have any idea what you would consider progress, but removing any material from that area certainly changes something! But what do I know... just a thought!

Jeff H · « **Reply #8 on:** February 27, 2014, 10:28:01 PM »

Could you post a pic of how far it will close?
A shot from the side and a shot from the top could help.

Spanky · « **Reply #9 on:** February 27, 2014, 10:34:14 PM »

You're getting good advice on the barrel so far...
Now tell us about that flat tracker!
There's alot of us here who hit the roads on two wheels.

My personal ride is a 1974 Triumph Bonneville 750. Last year of the right hand shift... that took some getting used to.

Spanky

kawasakifreak77 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 27, 2014, 11:12:41 PM »

I'm just about certain it's not the latch mechanism below the firing pin. The barrel will not go down into battery. I'll try to post pics but I'm new to these robot phones & I haven't figured out how to post pictures online.

If any regulars know of anyone on here that can give me a good solid second opinion, please pass the message on for me. I'm just an hour from Wichita & as big of a joint that is I've got my fingers crossed that there's someone in the area to supervise me.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 28, 2014, 12:04:41 AM »

My first check of a barrel is the cartridge in the chamber; ie, does it come flush with the barrel breech. This is important because if it was chambered a bit too deep you can, in this barrel fitting, also file the breech to get the perfect headspace while going for lockup.
Once that is addressed you would find it useful to pull the extractor/ejector out. It will 'get in your way' of this.
I take it you do not have another H&R/NEF to compare to? The barrel does sit down a bit from flush across the top with the standing breech of the frame. Until you get the barrel to that point you can go after it in a fairly aggressive, though straight and square, fashion. Once there. slow down. As you work it more you will see the barrel going deeper below that frame lip. This means the shelf is getting closer to the latch, BUT, you need to start being aware that you are not just going for lockup, you are also going for center hits on the primer from the firing pin. Prime a case, chamber it, hold the action closed and pop it off (if it will). You should be able to visualize what Im getting at; as you are bringing the barrel down closer to lockup you need to stop filing/sanding that underlug when you get centered primer strikes even if it is not yet locking up.
If it does lockup, or is just starting to, you have a little fudge room to a tad 'north of center', but wouldnt you rather have it perfect?
So, with centered strikes, if it is not yet getting lockup, or not quite enough, is where I would want to start working on the shelf. I'll not go into detail on that yet as you have a good bit to go to get to that point, and yours may lockup at the right point anyway.
BTW, I may be your long lost twin brother from different parents

(current ride: '81 Yam SR500 cafe racer)

revbc · « **Reply #12 on:** February 28, 2014, 12:12:59 AM »

+1 on what gcrank said. I always file the breech face before messing with the pivot if there is a small gap at top of the barrel. Now this gap is small............you may have to feel it with a feeler gauge.

Check rim depth often with your new brass and several kinds. Handis usually have some "meat" to take off the breech face.

rdlange · « **Reply #13 on:** February 28, 2014, 02:32:01 AM »

All I can add is to remove an 'ejector' before you fit the barrel, as they can make you think the barrel isn't fitting , when it really is; because the ejector can be a little proud of the barrel OR the spring pressure is making the barrel not seem closed. Then fit the ejector flush separately WITHOUT the spring until everything snap together solidly and reinstall the spring. Never had to fit an 'extractor' barrel, but might cause the same difficulty.

kawasakifreak77 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 28, 2014, 05:47:16 AM »

Just made a big step! I was out in the garage taking a picture of this contraption & gave the action a bit more muscle & it closed! It's real tight but I must be close.

It didn't latch but I can tell it's really close. I think I'm going to remove the trigger guard & that looks like I'll be able to see up into that latch area.

Thanks everyone for lending a hand here! I'll get back with ya'll in awhile.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 28, 2014, 07:10:57 AM »

How about that primer strike check?
You can put some dyechem, or even Magic Marker, on the shelf to show the contact from the latch. I dont think you are going to be moving ahead dropping the guard, etc.; the view port is a plug on the side of newer actions, but most of us leave it alone.

kawasakifreak77 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 28, 2014, 08:39:42 AM »

Got it!

Boy, that trigger guard is somethin' else eh?

& on the firing pin strike, I have no empty cases to test with since I'm new to the caliber.

I understand 'locks up like a bank vault' now. This is incredible.

I'm double checking the contact areas with some dycum & got some super fine sand paper to polish the rough spots out.

I'll get to motorcycles later. Don't want to derail the thread too bad!

gcrank1 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 28, 2014, 10:33:33 AM »

Dont 'polish' too much. With much of this you want it a bit on the tight side because the parts do wear in and seat, not unlike piston rings if you will, and if you start a tad tight you will be happier when it seats in than thinking you are making it perfect and have it final seat in a tad loose. Once you get to opening/closing/shooting you will see what I mean.
As to a 'primer carrier', short a stick of 35Rem brass, can you get a stick of another more common caliber (look up some cartridge specs or someone else here may be able to tell you). For example, if you could cut the back end off a 30-06 to stuff in there with a primer it will tell you what its doing.
Or, here is a little lathe project on your coffee break: turn some soft brass stock to emulate the tail end of the 35Rem. Once inserted and the hammer dropped the indent will show and not hurt the firing pin.

kawasakifreak77 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 28, 2014, 11:12:13 AM »

I had that same thought. I have left it tight figuring it's going to seat in. I'm happy than a kid at Christmas now!

I like the idea of turning something down to practice dry firing but I don't see the '06 idea working. Off the top of my head, the rim to the .35R is .460" while the grand ole '06 is .473" no?

I dug out an old 4x scope just to see what this bad mamba jamba will do. Long as the weather don't go belly up I'll have a range report soon!

gcrank1 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 28, 2014, 11:31:06 AM »

You could turn that butt end of the '06 down that much, cases are much thicker in the head/webb than up above. Just take shallow bites to skin it down.
Do you have reloading stuff? If not just use a small punch or even finishing nail to pop primers and set the fired case/case head on an old valve stem for support and press a new one in using a stub in the drill press/arbor press or tap in with a small hammer; gotta have primers though, std Large Rifle is fine.
Oh, and it is easier to start with commercial factory brass than mil-surp (which has crimped in primers).

Ol BW · « **Reply #20 on:** February 28, 2014, 10:42:27 PM »

Hey glad to hear you got it all together! And you did it all by your self, with a little help! You didn't even have to go out and buy some Natty Light to drink and make shims out of!;D

I know you said it locked up tight, and I believe you said that you had checked the latch shelf engagement. One thing you want to check is that it will not pop open. Sometimes with one that takes stiff pressure to close, you can close it and think it is locked in but the latch will not be fully engaged. When shot it would pop open. Take the gun and close it and put the hinge on your knee and pull up on each side like you are trying to break it across your knee. You don't need to go Lou Ferrigno on it. I have one that is very tight and it has worn in some, but I still hit the receiver with the heel of my hand without support on the forearm end to make sure it is shut all the way. By the way, in my experience, unless you really abuse one, they don't wear that fast. I've had mine since '93 and it is still tight.

(Maybe we can get Bill to add a motorcycle forum!)

BW

AtlLaw · « **Reply #21 on:** February 28, 2014, 11:03:42 PM »

Quote from: Ol BW on February 28, 2014, 10:42:27 PM

(Maybe we can get Bill to add a motorcycle forum!)

I'm a little slow but... you're kidding right?

kawasakifreak77 · « **Reply #22 on:** February 28, 2014, 11:32:32 PM »

One of the first things I did was place it over my knee & try to pop it open. Ain't gonna happen!

Motorcycles:

I've rode since I was a kid & always had 'the need for speed'

Currently I'm building a street fighter from an '07 ZX10R. Carbon fiber wheels from South America, custom Box Bros exhaust, full fuel management, upgraded brakes (gonna need some GOOD binders!) & traxxion dynamics suspension with Ohlins springs. Only the best money can buy for 'Fiona'! She'll weigh around 360lbs & put down over 170hp when complete. Considering I barely weigh 150lbs, it'll be like a JATO powered bicycle.

OldSchoolRanger · « **Reply #23 on:** February 28, 2014, 11:43:16 PM »

Quote from: AtlLaw on February 28, 2014, 11:03:42 PM

Quote from: Ol BW on February 28, 2014, 10:42:27 PM
(Maybe we can get Bill to add a motorcycle forum!)

I'm a little slow but... you're kidding right?

I think he had a "Bikers who like to shoot" or something to that effect section on the forum for a while. It disappeared, so I guess it didn't go over too well.

Ol BW · « **Reply #24 on:** March 01, 2014, 12:10:42 AM »

Quote from: AtlLaw on February 28, 2014, 11:03:42 PM

Quote from: Ol BW on February 28, 2014, 10:42:27 PM
(Maybe we can get Bill to add a motorcycle forum!)

I'm a little slow but... you're kidding right?

Ha Ha! Not kidding! Maybe I'm a little slow. . .

$:-\$

;D:D

I remember the bikers who shoot forum or whatever it was called. I thought you had to shoot to be a biker?

I'm not too serious about the motorcycle forum as I spend so much time here I would never visit the motorcycle forum! It would be great to know how many members here ride. We have a great group of folks! We could put on a big ride to benefit the server fund, call it the Graybeards Ride, like a poker run except we would stop at gun stores instead of bars!

BW

gcrank1 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 01, 2014, 12:31:55 AM »

Great shades of 'Road Warrior', batman!
But I digress.....
The H&R needs to be closed 'with some authority' (though not slammed shut) rather than just pulled up to close like a finely fettled H&H double rifle. Most settle in after a bit of shooting. You do want decent latch to shelf engagement, so just how much ya got there?