? for those that have them, 375 or 416

[Ramrod]

375 H & H ?  did thay stop making the 9.3x64 ?

Why would you buy a 375 Holland and Holland when there's the 9,3x64 ?

The 416 Rigby or Remington or even the weatherby i can understand


Sorry guy's i could not resist the jab  :lol: at the 375 H & H

Jab all you want, you won't be the first. It's only been around for a little over 90 years. The .30-06 has it's detractors too. No law against having an off the wall opinion!

[magnum308]

I agree. The .375 H&H has stood the test of time in the hunting fields, Africa and India, for which it was designed.

By the way it has spawned more cartridges than any other cartridge in the 20th century. A great, if not unparrelled, achievement.

that's what so great also about the .375 Chatfield-Taylor, it replicates the ballistics of the H&H but works in a standard length action.

Cheers & Good bless,
Magnum308

[Redhawk1]

Just got to love those 375H&H's.  

[45LCshoooter]

The 375 H&H [is the one I own] can probably kill any animal in the world.
 The 416 Rem mag [is the one I own] can kill any animal in the world. I hope this answers your question.

Ok, a new twist: which would you recommend for an Encore Rifle? I have a frame and want something impressive on it(although .405 win would be more practical here, where the nastiest things we shoot are piggies...and bowling balls)... something that can smash bowling balls with a little more authority than my nastily heavy-loaded 45-70 Ruger #3 (450gr bullet paper patched around the base and seated way out over a good bit of 3031). I am accustomed to some recoil....

[crow_feather]

the 416 can shoot 300's at 2950

C F

[Dana C]

I have shot a couple of 375's and a friends 13 year old son took an Antelope in Idaho at 400 yards with one.  It has an amazing quality of not moving the point of impact much with different bullets of differing weights.
I am absolutely sold on its versatility, availability, accuracy not to mention it's nostalgic value.

[Redhawk1]

I now have both the 375 H&H and a 416 Rigby. I like them both. If I need a gun Bigger than the 375 H&H, I will get my 416 Rigby.  

[Questor]

The problem with the 375H&H is that I now have no use for other rifles except a .22LR and a .22 varmint cartridge. That 375 just does everything I want when it's packaged with a nice rifle.  I agree with the earlier post about the versatility you get when ranging from 235 to 300 grain bullets. Very nice.  Someone once wrote, regarding the age of the 375H&H, that it may be old, but the guys who designed it got it right the first time.

[DanP]

Hi,

By my reckoning, the .375 H&H is one of the most versatile cartridges on the planet.  Likely, it passes the .30-06, which enjoys so much because of its longevity, and willingness of companies to invest in so many loads due to its popularity.  

As you get heavier, there is a tradeoff between exterior ballistics, terminal ballistics, and recoil.  The .375 H&H seems to have retained all of its exterior ballistics with manageable recoil.  By the time you get up to 300 grain loads, the .375 is starting to sacrifice its exterior ballistics.

The .375H&H is also much cheaper than the .416's.  

As you get heavier, costs go up.  Above the .375 H&H, the next cheapest and more powerful load is the .458 win (by my reckoning).  It seems to have loads for from 300 gr (Federal dropped their 300 gr load, but you can handload) up to and above 500 gr bullets.  At the 300 gr end, it will launch the bullets in excess of 2700 ft/sec (like the .416).  However, the poor BC of .458 caliber bullets in 300 grains gets in its licks, and the bullets don't retain as much energy as the .416 downrange (perhaps some selection for better BC's would help: Barnes Originals come in 300 or 350 gr, and are semi-spitzers); Federal used to load 300 or 350 gr loads, but they dropped it.  In 400 gr loads, the .458 matches the .416's (according to Federal's online ballistics charts; they load a 400 gr trophy bonded bear claw -- which is not [yet] available for handloading).  Then you have the option of 500 gr and heavier in .458.  But, the .458 has sacrificed its trajectory compared to the .375.  The .416 seems to sit in the middle of the .375H&H and the .458.  Not quite long range, and not quite 500 grain hitter.  

You can make reduced loads in the .458 win that pretty much duplicate .45-70s; I'm not so sure that you can find as much in the way of cheap bullets in .416 as you can for the .45-70.  

But -- I don't mean to plug the .458, exactly.  I would strongly lean to the .375 H&H -- it is cheap, versatile, and you can find tons of commercial loads for it, and lots of reloading components.  The .458 is next in line in my book if you are looking for something heavier.  I suppose my criticisms of the .416 shouldn't be taken as criticisms.  I've read similar criticisms of the .25-06 (a caliber I'm fond of), which complain that it isn't a .243 win/6mm rem, nor is it a .270 win -- that it is sort of in-between; and I haven't found those arguments to be quite fair (the .257 Roberts is based on the same 7mmx57 case as the 6mm rem, and you can load it to hotter ballistics than the 6mm; you can load the .25-06 hotter than the .257 Roberts, so the .25-06 should be hotter than the 6mm -- if that's what you're looking for, but they are awfully close in performance (can't do a comparison of the .257 roberts -- another of my favs -- at 100 grains with the others, but you can compare 6mm rem, .243 win, and .25-06 at 100 grs at the federal page).  So -- I figger there is also lots of virtue in the .416's for similar reasons.

My sense is you're likely to shoot the .375 H&H more, and hunt with it more, than the .416s.

Dan

[Zachary]

I really don't have much to add to what has already been stated except for one thing - my .375H&H Mag is the most accurate gun I have - it shoots 1/4" groups at 100 yards! :eek:   Yup, you read correctly, tiny 1/4 inch groups.  And that's with the cheap Federal 300 grain round nose ammo.  Ironically enough, the gun shoots a little under 1 inch with the Federal 300 grain Nosler Partitions - go figure.

I don't own a .416 anything, but if my .375H&H can shoot that well with some custom work, then I would think that just about any .375H&H has that potential.  BTW, mine is a Winchester Classic Stainless with a McMillan stock, glass and pillar bedded with free floating barrel and a polished bolt/receiver with a trigger job with a 3 pound trigger pull.

The gunsmith said that the .375H&H is inherently accurate.  I find that hard to believe, but then again, I find my .375H&H shooting groups better than a sniper's .223 even harder to believe.

Generally speaking, the larger the diameter of the bullet past .30 caliber, the less accurate a cartridge is - or at least that is what I have been told.  Again, I can't speak for the .416, but I would put my money (and I have) on the legendary .375H&H.

Zachary

[bj outdoors]

Two years ago I shot a Cape Buffaloa with a .375 H&H and decided I wanted a little more power so I bought a .375 UM so I wouldn't be what
I considered marginally powered for charging Elephant or Lion. I shoot
300 grain TSX Barnes with 98 grains of RL22 behind it and get over 2800FPS. Turns out last year the Lioness charged and I shot it with a .500 S&W at 12 paces instead of the rifle but my buddy used the gun for his Lion,broke both its shoulders, and killed it with one shot. Since then I've purchased a .460 WBY and was happy to see 2600 lbs more muzzle energy than a .458 Win and 2200 lbs more than a .458 Lott. I was happy to see it, not feel it , although with a PAST recoil pad on my shoulder and the WBY Accubrake on the rifle, it's manageable.
In a past post some mentiuoned the WBY.375. That would have been a better choice for me since the H&H ammo can be used.
Question:
Recently I sent a check to Blaserman(biggameman) for
a box of .460 WBY shells. My check cleared the bank on
5-6 but he never sent the cartridges. I can't find a phone
number for him but I do have his mailing address, and the
cancelled check with his banks phone number and account
number. Has anyone out there dealt with him before and
have a phone number or comment?

BJ
BJ Outdoors TV
Fox Sports Net

[crow_feather]

I guess it comes down to recoil and how much can be handled.  One can get by with a 460 Weatherby, one can only handle a 30-06.  I would rather shoot a charging elephant with a 30-06 than miss it with a 460.  Whatever you shoot, may your aim be true and your game feel no pain.

C F

[Redhawk1]

I guess it comes down to recoil and how much can be handled.  One can get by with a 460 Weatherby, one can only handle a 30-06.  I would rather shoot a charging elephant with a 30-06 than miss it with a 460.  Whatever you shoot, may your aim be true and your game feel no pain.

C F

If I had  a charging elephant, I would want the 460. You would not feel the recoil and it would be the last thing you would be thinking about.  

[jro45]

I shoot the 416 Rem Mag and the 375 H&H. With the 416 I have it zeroed at 150 yds. I shoot 400gr bullets not barnes because of all the copper barnes bullets put in your barrel.

With the 375 H&H I have it zeroed at 200 yds with 270gr bullets. Ihave 300 gr bullets for it but don't shoot to many of them, no reason.

[Redhawk1]

I shoot the 416 Rem Mag and the 375 H&H. With the 416 I have it zeroed at 150 yds. I shoot 400gr bullets not barnes because of all the copper barnes bullets put in your barrel.

With the 375 H&H I have it zeroed at 200 yds with 270gr bullets. Ihave 300 gr bullets for it but don't shoot to many of them, no reason.

I don't have a problem with the barnes bullets fouling my barrel's with the copper. Plus I clean my guns if I have a little build up. No different than any other copper bullet as far as copper fouling.    I like to shoot what I hunt with.   :money:

[jro45]

I shoot the 416 Rem Mag and the 375 H&H. With the 416 I have it zeroed at 150 yds. I shoot 400gr bullets not barnes because of all the copper barnes bullets put in your barrel.

With the 375 H&H I have it zeroed at 200 yds with 270gr bullets. Ihave 300 gr bullets for it but don't shoot to many of them, no reason.

I don't have a problem with the barnes bullets fouling my barrel's with the copper. Plus I clean my guns if I have a little build up. No different than any other copper bullet as far as copper fouling.    I like to shoot what I hunt with.   :money:[/quote


I have shot barnes bullets in my 416 before and they put a lot more copper fouling in my barrel then hornady bullets did.

Because barnes bullets are solid copper and hornady bullets just have a copper shell and once the rifling cuts into the bullet it can get past the copper with hornady but with barnes it can't get past because they are solid copper. That means more copper fouling.

I know that Barnes has some real good bullets that make the X and so forth. But I can live without barnes bullets. I just shoot the other brands
of bullets and I'm not missing anything.

[Redhawk1]

I shoot the 416 Rem Mag and the 375 H&H. With the 416 I have it zeroed at 150 yds. I shoot 400gr bullets not barnes because of all the copper barnes bullets put in your barrel.

With the 375 H&H I have it zeroed at 200 yds with 270gr bullets. Ihave 300 gr bullets for it but don't shoot to many of them, no reason.

I don't have a problem with the barnes bullets fouling my barrel's with the copper. Plus I clean my guns if I have a little build up. No different than any other copper bullet as far as copper fouling.    I like to shoot what I hunt with.   :money:[/quote


I have shot barnes bullets in my 416 before and they put a lot more copper fouling in my barrel then hornady bullets did.

Because barnes bullets are solid copper and hornady bullets just have a copper shell and once the rifling cuts into the bullet it can get past the copper with hornady but with barnes it can't get past because they are solid copper. That means more copper fouling.

I know that Barnes has some real good bullets that make the X and so forth. But I can live without barnes bullets. I just shoot the other brands
of bullets and I'm not missing anything.

You better check your rifling, it is not suppose to cut the jacket.  
But the reason some see more copper in there barrels, is because Barnes bullets are a little softer then a jacketed bullet.

If rifling was meant to cut the jacket, the bullets would not perform well at all and loose the jacket on impact. Rifling is to put the spin on the bullet.

No Barnes bullets are not for everyone, I was just giving my feedback and experience, I have using them. Use what you like.

[jro45]

I shoot the 416 Rem Mag and the 375 H&H. With the 416 I have it zeroed at 150 yds. I shoot 400gr bullets not barnes because of all the copper barnes bullets put in your barrel.

With the 375 H&H I have it zeroed at 200 yds with 270gr bullets. Ihave 300 gr bullets for it but don't shoot to many of them, no reason.

I don't have a problem with the barnes bullets fouling my barrel's with the copper. Plus I clean my guns if I have a little build up. No different than any other copper bullet as far as copper fouling.    I like to shoot what I hunt with.   :money:[/quo


I have shot barnes bullets in my 416 before and they put a lot more copper fouling in my barrel then hornady bullets did.

Because barnes bullets are solid copper and hornady bullets just have a copper shell and once the rifling cuts into the bullet it can get past the copper with hornady but with barnes it can't get past because they are solid copper. That means more copper fouling.

I know that Barnes has some real good bullets that make the X and so forth. But I can live without barnes bullets. I just shoot the other brands
of bullets and I'm not missing anything.

You better check your rifling, it is not suppose to cut the jacket.  
But the reason some see more copper in there barrels, is because Barnes bullets are a little softer then a jacketed bullet.

If rifling was meant to cut the jacket, the bullets would not perform well at all and loose the jacket on impact. Rifling is to put the spin on the bullet.

No Barnes bullets are not for everyone, I was just giving my feedback and experience, I have using them. Use what you like.

 They are not for me as I already stated.

As far as cutting the bullet I should have said put rifling marks on the bullet.  

If you ever shoot a box [20 rounds] you'll see what I'm saying. I'm not the only one that feels this way. There are others at the range.  

[Redhawk1]

I have been shooting barnes bullets for many years. I have shot 50 in one rifle in one section. I am very familiar with what you are talking about. It is just not a big concern of mine or a problem in my guns.  Frankly I could care less what you prefer to shoot. Next time I just won't give my feedback to you. Shoot what works for you, and I will do the same.

[jro45]

I have been shooting barnes bullets for many years. I have shot 50 in one rifle in one section. I am very familiar with what you are talking about. It is just not a big concern of mine or a problem in my guns.  Frankly I could care less what you prefer to shoot. Next time I just won't give my feedback to you. Shoot what works for you, and I will do the same.

I'm glad you know what I'm talking about. I just don't like a lot of copper in my barrels. Good shooting to you. I've been shooting for 44 years.

[Redhawk1]

Maybe one of these times we will run into each other at the range.  

[Lawdog]

Redhawk1,

Your experiences with Barnes bullets and mine seem to run about the same.  Many a time I have shot over 100 rounds using Barns Bullets in smaller calibers, 60(+/-) in my big bores and not have the fouling some like to complain about.  And the newer TSX bullets from Barnes foul even less in all of my rifles no matter what the caliber.  Lawdog
 

[Redhawk1]

Redhawk1,

Your experiences with Barnes bullets and mine seem to run about the same.  Many a time I have shot over 100 rounds using Barns Bullets in smaller calibers, 60(+/-) in my big bores and not have the fouling some like to complain about.  And the newer TSX bullets from Barnes foul even less in all of my rifles no matter what the caliber.  Lawdog
 

Lawdog

I was so glad I have switched my hunting bullets to Barnes. The bullets performance outweighs a little copper in the barrel.  

[Lawdog]

Redhawk1,

The bullets performance outweighs a little copper in the barrel.

Besides that is what Barnes makes CR-10 for anyway.  Works great at removing copper fouling no matter what make bullets you use.  Lawdog
 

[Redhawk1]

Redhawk1,

The bullets performance outweighs a little copper in the barrel.

Besides that is what Barnes makes CR-10 for anyway.  Works great at removing copper fouling no matter what make bullets you use.  Lawdog
 

I got a big bottle of it. I shoot a lot and need a lot of cleaner, plus it is cheaper that way.