Author Topic: The Classic .30-30 Winchester  (Read 15674 times)

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Offline Graybeard

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The Classic .30-30 Winchester
« on: July 23, 2020, 10:16:58 AM »
https://gundigest.com/gear-ammo/reloading/reloading-bench-the-classic-30-30-winchester

By Philip Massaro -July 20, 2020


Fall in love with the 125-year-old .30-30 Winchester all over again, this time on the reloading bench.

Does anyone shoot a .30-30 anymore? I mean, it doesn’t say “Creedmoor,” it doesn’t launch bullets with a BC of .900, and it sure won’t take an elk at 700 yards.

However, the resounding answer is, Hell, yeah! It still makes an excellent close-quarters rifle for deer, black bear, feral hogs and more. It’s very easy to shoot, it usually comes in a slim, svelte rifle that’s easy to carry, and it handles well in the thick woods.

Is it sexy? Certainly not by modern standards, but there’s absolutely no arguing the effectiveness of the cartridge in the hands of a hunter who knows how to get within 100 or so yards of their quarry.

Like my father, I took my first whitetail with a .30-30. I had a Winchester Model 94, and my father had a Marlin Model 1893. It was affordable to shoot (to this day, a decent box of ammo can be had for under $20), and while I’ve had many rifles since, I can honestly say that I’ve had more misfires with factory .30-30 ammunition than probably all others combined. Across the multitude of Marlins, Savages, H&Rs and Winchesters, it seemed as if the 1980s and ’90s were eras of lousy .30-30 ammunition.

However, it did have an upside: It drove me to learn how to handload my own ammunition.

The .30-30 Backstory

With a big rim for positive headspacing and a neck long enough for good neck tension, the .30-30 Winchester isn’t at all hard to handload. Historically, it has the honor of being the first American small-bore cartridge designed around smokeless powder, and it’s simply a .38-55 Winchester case necked down to hold .308-inch-diameter bullets.


For the New York bear season, especially the early season when the vegetation is still thick, a .30-30 and a round-nose Partition make perfect sense.

At the time, our beloved .30-caliber was not anywhere as popular as it currently is (.32-caliber was actually more popular in the late 1890s), but as the .30-30 Winchester, along with the .30-40 Krag, it was about to change all that. The John M. Browning-designed Model 1894 Winchester would be the major vehicle to bring the cartridge to the masses, going on to sell more than 7,000,000 units—with the majority in .30-30 Winchester.

The very name of the cartridge hints at the proper powder charge; while using the black powder-era nomenclature, the latter number in the name is actually the smokeless powder charge. (My own favorite loads weigh at or near 30 grains … but more about that in a minute.)

Like so many of the rimmed, lever-action cartridges of that era, the .30-30 Winchester has a rather thin case. While this doesn’t pose an issue if pressures and velocities are kept in check, when a reloader tries to push the envelope, the case will often fail prematurely, usually in the form of cracked necks. In some lever guns, excess pressure could manifest itself in the form of primers popping out of the pocket slightly.

Barrel Lengths & Velocities

I’ll say this straight-faced: Trying to turn the .30-30 Winchester into the .300 Savage or .308 Winchester is no good for you or your rifle, but if you accept the parameters of the cartridge, you’ll have a lifetime of great shooting. The factory ammunition for the .30-30 lists the 170-grain load at roughly 2,200 fps and the 150-grain load at 2,400 fps. Those numbers are usually spot-on in the longer-barreled rifles, but no so much in the carbines.


At 125 years old, Winchester’s .30-30 still makes an excellent hunting cartridge.

For example, my Winchester Model 94 AE XTR is a light and handy rifle, but its 20-inch barrel gives velocities about 150 fps lower than the advertised values. My dad’s 1902-vintage Marlin Model 1893 (with its 26-inch barrel) gives muzzle velocities much closer to those listed on the box.

Does that mean my rifle is ineffective? No, but it does affect the trajectory out past 100 yards, and I’m not comfortable shooting iron sights much farther than that anyhow.

So, when reloading for the .30-30, plan to see velocities commensurate to your barrel length. Handloaded ammunition for the .30-30 will generally run about 50 fps behind factory ammunition, and then, you should adjust for your barrel length—about 25 to 30 fps for each inch of deviation from the test barrel—adding speed if your barrel is longer and subtracting if it’s shorter.

Best .30-30 Winchester Loads

The most accurate load in my Winchester 94 uses a 170-grain Hornady InterLock round-nose bullet over 30.0 grains of IMR4064, sparked by a CCI 200 primer, with a muzzle velocity of 2,025 fps. It’ll print three in an inch at 50 yards, and just over 2 inches at 100. At 170 grains, the Hornady Interlock has enough sectional density to give good penetration on both deer and bear.

I also like the 170-grain Nosler Partition—with a good round-nose design so there’s no issue in a tubular magazine—over 31.2 grains of IMR4320 in the longer-barreled Marlin, giving 2,190 fps. The same bullet is equally accurate with 27.0 grains of Norma 200 powder (while not nearly as popular as the IMR, Hodgdon and Alliant powders, the Norma series is excellent stuff). Be sure to check the barrel length on the test data, and if your barrel is longer, it’s most important to start at the bottom of the scale and work upward.

If you live in a lead-free zone or prefer the performance of a monometal bullet, the 150-grain Nosler E-Tip, with a round, polymer tip and boat-tail (for ease of loading), makes a great choice. That Marlin 1893 likes a charge of 31.5 grains of IMR4895 for 2,415 fps.

I like to seat my bullets to the middle of the cannelure, and I set my seating die up for a good roll crimp. Both these rifles use a side-loading gate and a tubular magazine, and the nose of the bullet will be used to push the previous cartridge farther into the tube magazine; even with the .30-30’s good neck tension, the bullet can be pushed into the case without a good crimp.

A standard large rifle primer (I lean heavily on the Federal 210 and the CCI 200) will work just fine for the .30-30 case, because the capacity usually runs between 34 and 36 grains, depending on brand and bullet seating depth. For powder choices, the .30-30 likes medium-burning choices such as IMR4064, IMR4320, Varget, Reloder 15 and IMR4895. I’ve had good results with Norma 200 and Accurate 5744 as well.

For lever rifles, I highly recommend full-length resizing all your cases, because the rifles don’t have the power to cam the action closed like a bolt rifle does. Keep things consistent, and I bet you’ll fall in love with the 125-year-old cartridge all over again.

The article originally appeared in the November 2019 issue of Gun Digest the Magazine.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

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Offline northwoodneil

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Re: The Classic .30-30 Winchester
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2020, 12:58:51 PM »
He left out my favorite load, 30-31 gr of 3031 (IMR). I just seems right and puts a 150 gr flat point in the black every time.
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Offline ironglows

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Re: The Classic .30-30 Winchester
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2020, 01:29:52 PM »
Right Bill; I have been saying that for years!  Here in the hilly, eastern woodlands the 30/30 is one of the best choices..and the lever is among the best actions.


  I have used a Marlin 336 and single shot .44 mag rifles to harvest deer, and since the range is generally limited, they kill them just as dead as the big boomers!


  ...And now days for me, the lesser recoil is appreciated.
"They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns, then it will be through the bullet"      (Saul Alinsky) ...hero of the left..

Offline Ranger99

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Re: The Classic .30-30 Winchester
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2020, 05:21:26 PM »
If they all had to go, I'd still have
my daddy's 1950 Marlin.
Everywhere I've ever carried it and
used it for hunting, it was always
more than adequate and did the
job quickly and humanely.


JMO- I still have never figured why
these guys think that a 30/30 more
or less peters out at 100 yards
and plows straight down into the dirt
18 MINUTES.  . . . . . .

Offline ironglows

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Re: The Classic .30-30 Winchester
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2020, 12:57:17 AM »
  From Ranger99 ;" JMO- I still have never figured whythese guys think that a 30/30 moreor less peters out at 100 yardsand plows straight down into the dirt" 

    Yes, I find it comical when someone thinks in that manner.
"They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns, then it will be through the bullet"      (Saul Alinsky) ...hero of the left..

Offline Ranger99

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Re: The Classic .30-30 Winchester
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2020, 04:40:26 PM »
Wasn't too awful long ago that I
read an article that had a quote:
" A 45/70 is a hundred yard gun.
I don't care what you do to it "


Don't remember if I ever posted
that on GBO or not


If I was honest with myself,  I
could most likely do with my
30/30 as my only centerfire
and not be handicapped at all
18 MINUTES.  . . . . . .

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: The Classic .30-30 Winchester
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2020, 10:23:23 PM »
makes for a great home defense gun too if you don't have an ar15. Where I really enjoy them is shooting cast bullets with 7 grains of unique. Cheap fun shooting.
blue lives matter

Offline ironglows

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Re: The Classic .30-30 Winchester
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2020, 01:12:54 AM »
 From Ranger99;
Wasn't too awful long ago that I
read an article that had a quote:
" A 45/70 is a hundred yard gun.
I don't care what you do to it "


Don't remember if I ever posted
that on GBO or not
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


  Your post stirred my memory..  I guess this fellow was not informed of the limited range of the 45/70.. Not even way back in black powder days !


    Your post stirred my memory..  I guess this fellow was not told how limited the range of a 45/70 is, even back in the black powder days ![/size]   https://truewestmagazine.com/a-long-shot/#:~:text=A%20Long%20Shot%20The%20Second,heard%20%27round%20campfires%20ever%20since.&text=The%20Comanches%20and%20their%20Kiowa,buffalo%20hunters%20off%20their%20land.
"They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns, then it will be through the bullet"      (Saul Alinsky) ...hero of the left..

Offline jedman

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Re: The Classic .30-30 Winchester
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2021, 06:03:02 AM »
I own or have owned many rifles in 30-30, single shots, bolt actions, levers, even a rolling block carbine and it is just as good today as it was 125 years ago to kill deer sized game. Being I handload for almost every caliber I own I will also include the 303 Savage because it is a ballistic twin to the 30-30 and can use the same load data and bullets.
I have a old Savage 99 H carbine with a straight grip stock slim forend and receiver sight in 303 Savage and it is a favorite also.

jedman
Current handi family, 24 ga./ 58 cal ,50-70,  45 smokeless MZ, 44 belted bodeen, 44 mag,.375 H&R (wildcat),375 Win.,357 max, .340 MF ( wildcat ), 8 mm Lebel, 8x57, .303 British, 270 x 57 R,(wildcat) 256 Win Mag, 2 x 243 Win,2 x 223 Rem. 7-30 Waters &20ga.,

Offline 45/70fan

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Re: The Classic .30-30 Winchester
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2021, 07:21:42 AM »
Dead on about trying to up the power level. I've tried it and the weak cases start splitting. Factory ammo does all you could ask of it so why push it hotter. My Handi loves 170 gr Remington Core Lokt's. My old 94 loves about any 150 gr bullet you feed it.

Offline Doublebass73

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Re: The Classic .30-30 Winchester
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2021, 09:37:37 AM »
My most accurate rifle ever was a Topper model 058 H&R 30-30, dumb move getting rid of that gun years ago.

I used to work with a guy that told me that 30-30's were no good for deer because he used to have one and "lost too many deer with it". He said he had to switch to a 30-06 so he wouldn't lose anymore deer. Same guy told me that a 45-70 and a hot loaded .45 Colt our of a rifle were no good for deer as well. ::)
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Offline scattershot

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Re: The Classic .30-30 Winchester
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2021, 10:05:27 AM »
Wasn't too awful long ago that I
read an article that had a quote:
" A 45/70 is a hundred yard gun.
I don't care what you do to it "

Don’t tell that to the 1000 yard shooters.

Offline Land_Owner

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Re: The Classic .30-30 Winchester
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2021, 12:33:42 PM »
The 30-30 is so simple to reload, even a Caveman can do it. 

My first centerfire rifle was a Win 94.  Picked up mail order for $200 from J. C. Penny's, wrapped and under the Christmas tree in 1990.  When opened and dry fired the first time, it was SO SAFE, the trigger could not be pulled no matter how hard you depressed the tang safety below the lever action.  Sent it back, discouraged.  Bought one used before New Year's Day from a local guy, brightened my Season's Spirits immeasurably, and never looked back. 

I learned everything there was to know about reloading for that 30-30 with a Lee Loader.  Cheap, Easy, Fast, ACCURATE, top eject so no scope, and lost my would-have-been first buck at 22 yards in a fog due to no scope - and inexperience.  Stopped from pulling the trigger to affirm the deer had horns.  Putting the binoculars down after confirmation, picked up the open sighted Winny, and before I could pull the trigger the deer disappeared in the fog - AT 22 YARDS - heavy thick riverine flood plain fog.  Side saddle scope was NOT for me.

On a clear day that rifle would hit a 6" pie plate at 100 yards all day long with open sights and my 150 grain Speer FP bullet reloads.  Not pulling the trigger with that rifle on my first deer dampened my spirits once again.

I went out the next day and lucked into a $350 Winchester 270 Classic Featherweight with 3 x 9 Bausch & Lomb scope on consignment at a Bow Hunting shop and carry that 270 today as my #1 shoot them in the neck deer and hog rifle.  I can rightly say I love one woman and several rifles...

Offline orerancher

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Re: The Classic .30-30 Winchester
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2021, 01:38:20 PM »
Load and Shoot 30win, in a Couple of Contender Barrels, Handi, Savage 340, Savage 170, Rem. 788, Uberti Rolling Blk,
Cast Bullets in all...

Love Em All :)

Offline Freezer

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Re: The Classic .30-30 Winchester
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2021, 01:57:05 AM »
I bought my 94 in 1973 from my BIL best friend. I fell in love with the rifle and cartridge. I still have that rifle. In my adult years I bought what I considered the perfect hand gun, Thompson Contender with three barrels, .22, 223 and 30-30.

I agree with 3031 I've loaded thousands of 150 gr core locks for the rifle. The compo jut works

Offline scorpiusb

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Re: The Classic .30-30 Winchester
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2021, 06:49:17 AM »
I have a Marlin 336W for my 30-30... I'm getting ready to try some 190 grain reloads in a week or two... Projects willing anyway...

Offline northwoodneil

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Re: The Classic .30-30 Winchester
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2021, 10:49:03 AM »
I've still got a couple Marlins in 30-30. One is a saddle ring carbine Texan model. That's the one that goes to camp as a backup rifle should anyone have problems with their rifle. They complain a little going out with iron sights but soon learn the joy of carrying a light short woods rifle. Our shots are all 150 yards or less. You do your part and it'll make meat!
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Offline Buckskin

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Re: The Classic .30-30 Winchester
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2021, 11:07:55 AM »
I totally disagree with the author, a Win 94 is one of the sexiest guns ever made... Has class and a sleekness that is hard to beat.

I found mine by accident about 5 years, wasn't even looking for one.  Guy had a near mint 94 made in 1944 and wanted $350, looked like it had about 100 rounds through it -  snapped it up but quick.  One of my favorite rifles now.
Buckskin

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Offline Winchester94

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Re: The Classic .30-30 Winchester
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2021, 09:23:42 AM »
I think my Win 94's are sexy. I hunt in southern woods where the 30-30 is perfect.

Winchester 94, S&W revolvers, Colt 1911, Marlin

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: The Classic .30-30 Winchester
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2021, 01:02:02 PM »
I've owned a model 94, a model 336, an H&R, and a NEF, all in 30-30.
If I were to buy another big game rifle it would be a 336XLR.  That's all stainless with a 24" barrel.

Now this is my opinion only, but I think the 30-30 is good for elk, moose, bigfoot, or anything else that you can sneak up on.
The ONLY place/s where a .270 or something like that is handy, would be pronghorn or caribou where it's hard to get within 30-30 range.

I think that all those whiz-bang magnums is for lousy hunters or bragging rights on who has the biggest gun.

My BIL had a very nice Ruger 77 in .308 that he traded for a 300 Winchester magnum.  The first shot with that magnum tore a retina.
It's sat in his gun safe now for about 20 years, unfired. ::)
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Offline Ranger99

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Re: The Classic .30-30 Winchester
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2021, 03:06:29 PM »
. . .Now this is my opinion only, but I think the 30-30 is good for elk, moose, bigfoot, or anything else that you can sneak up on.


If you read some of the old books and articles
from the early 1900's, they raved about the
30/30 and how it was pretty much the ideal
round for big game ( kinda like the gun
magazines and advertisements do now)
then the 303 savage,  and so on
My buddy's grandpa used a 32/20 for
all his needs
18 MINUTES.  . . . . . .

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: The Classic .30-30 Winchester
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2021, 04:10:51 PM »
. . .Now this is my opinion only, but I think the 30-30 is good for elk, moose, bigfoot, or anything else that you can sneak up on.


If you read some of the old books and articles
from the early 1900's, they raved about the
30/30 and how it was pretty much the ideal
round for big game ( kinda like the gun
magazines and advertisements do now)
then the 303 savage,  and so on
My buddy's grandpa used a 32/20 for
all his needs
Yeah, we are no longer a nation of hunters, we are a nation of long range snipers.
I've never wanted an animal bad enough to snipe at long range and take a chance on gut shooting it.
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Offline Ranger99

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Re: The Classic .30-30 Winchester
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2021, 04:32:11 PM »
I've shot some a pretty good way off
with 30/06, 308, and 243, but I prefer
to be close up. 
Whatever somebody wants to use legally
and ethically is fine with me.  I do expect
others to respect my choices and methods
as well and not criticize my methods and
deer age. They're all trophies to me
18 MINUTES.  . . . . . .

Offline cwlongshot

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Re: The Classic .30-30 Winchester
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2021, 01:31:55 AM »
I have also always like the thurty thuty. I have had H&R's Winchesters and Marlins.
Last year I was gifted a box a parts... I assembled over that summer acquiring missing oarts till I have a Early Savage 340 in 22 Hornet. I have know if the 325/340 for decades. Always had at least one on the d racks till bout 2010 ish. Then only occasionally they popped up. Well I was impressed and wanted something bugger 30/30 was about the most common that you could hunt with so i started looking.

I found a 340 old first gen like my Hornet and metal was good wood ratty for a song! Had mo rear site but I had extras. I got it started cleaning and oil finished the stock. I wanted the patina not the abuse. Came out good not great. BUT the gun is a SHOOTER!!!  I bought a Arsenal 170 fp Cause I like 170 over 150's. And with 4198 or 2400 this bullet reaches 1700 and shoots touching clusters with a peep @ 50 yards.

I never could rationalize a Partition bullet for the 30/30. In my mind I never ever even herd of it generating enough powder to over expand a 150g cupncore bullet! Hornady 170's balled up & shot thru dozens of deer and hogs since I pulled a trigger. Leaving up dime to small quarter exit holes ta leak from. Im hoping same from my Arsenal bullet cast about 15BHN and powder coated does the same. I have sold off the H&R and Winchester. Ill keep the Marlins and this Savage moves to the top for me. Just a peep as long as Im able to see, I can hit!

CW
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Offline BUGEYE

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Re: The Classic .30-30 Winchester
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2021, 03:25:30 AM »
I've shot some a pretty good way off
with 30/06, 308, and 243, but I prefer
to be close up. 
Whatever somebody wants to use legally
and ethically is fine with me.  I do expect
others to respect my choices and methods
as well and not criticize my methods and
deer age. They're all trophies to me
Speaking of age, in 93 I killed a fawn in Illinois.  Her and her mother were standing side by side and I made the choice.
A hunting forum that I belonged to at the time acted like I had killed their favorite dog or one of their children.   They were stupid.
Give me liberty, or give me death
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Offline BUGEYE

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Re: The Classic .30-30 Winchester
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2021, 03:28:53 AM »
I have also always like the thurty thuty. I have had H&R's Winchesters and Marlins.
Last year I was gifted a box a parts... I assembled over that summer acquiring missing oarts till I have a Early Savage 340 in 22 Hornet. I have know if the 325/340 for decades. Always had at least one on the d racks till bout 2010 ish. Then only occasionally they popped up. Well I was impressed and wanted something bugger 30/30 was about the most common that you could hunt with so i started looking.

I found a 340 old first gen like my Hornet and metal was good wood ratty for a song! Had mo rear site but I had extras. I got it started cleaning and oil finished the stock. I wanted the patina not the abuse. Came out good not great. BUT the gun is a SHOOTER!!!  I bought a Arsenal 170 fp Cause I like 170 over 150's. And with 4198 or 2400 this bullet reaches 1700 and shoots touching clusters with a peep @ 50 yards.

I never could rationalize a Partition bullet for the 30/30. In my mind I never ever even herd of it generating enough powder to over expand a 150g cupncore bullet! Hornady 170's balled up & shot thru dozens of deer and hogs since I pulled a trigger. Leaving up dime to small quarter exit holes ta leak from. Im hoping same from my Arsenal bullet cast about 15BHN and powder coated does the same. I have sold off the H&R and Winchester. Ill keep the Marlins and this Savage moves to the top for me. Just a peep as long as Im able to see, I can hit!

CW
Back when I hunted I kept feelers out looking for a 340 in 30-30 but never found one.
Now, that 336XLR to me is the best looking rifle on the market.  It seems like it is just made for a peep sight. :)
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Offline Winchester94

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Re: The Classic .30-30 Winchester
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2021, 03:54:05 AM »
I have some 30-30 ammo.

Winchester 94, S&W revolvers, Colt 1911, Marlin

Offline Dee

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Re: The Classic .30-30 Winchester
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2021, 04:30:06 AM »
My dad gave me his never used 1958 Winchester 94  with the box of shells that came with it in 1968.
I took it every where I went, including manhunts, patrol units, and into the river bottoms when sheriff's departments called me to track bad guys. I wore a lotta the bluing off that rifle, and several of those bad guys got a look at the business end of it, and decided not to fight.
When I gave it to my oldest boy it had a Lyman reciever sight, and a Marble tang sight, along with hundreds of rounds of ammo.
My daughter has news papers clippings, pictures, and articles with me and that rifle her mother saved from the old days.
I miss the rifle sometimes, but my days for that stuff has came and went.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: The Classic .30-30 Winchester
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2021, 06:30:15 AM »
I have some 30-30 ammo.
I can easily see at least 300 deer in that stack. :)
Give me liberty, or give me death
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Give me liberty, or give me death
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Offline ulav8r

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Re: The Classic .30-30 Winchester
« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2021, 03:15:16 PM »
I have some 30-30 ammo.

I don't have quite that much factory ammo, but about 15 years ago I wnet into the local Walmart and purchased all the 30-30 they had in stock, 4 boxes of 150 grainers.