The Classic .30-30 Winchester

[Ranger99]

I've shot some a pretty good way off
with 30/06, 308, and 243, but I prefer
to be close up. 
Whatever somebody wants to use legally
and ethically is fine with me.  I do expect
others to respect my choices and methods
as well and not criticize my methods and
deer age. They're all trophies to me

Speaking of age, in 93 I killed a fawn in Illinois.  Her and her mother were standing side by side and I made the choice.
A hunting forum that I belonged to at the time acted like I had killed their favorite dog or one of their children.   They were stupid.

That's the prevalent attitude now days
Age and antlers are what everyone thinks
about.  JMHO- a free ranging whitetail
deer has everything stacked against its
surviving year after year.  Parasites,
poachers, predators, fighting, etc.
The only way to insure seeing the same
deer year after year is to fence and feed.
Treat em like livestock
I don't care any about antlers anyway.
I'm more proud of putting meat in
freezer bags by my own hand and not
carrying my animals to some place
and paying someone to cut up my
meat and such.  Never had one mounted

[Dee]

Years ago I paid $350.00 to get a big ole bobcat mounted. I looked at for about 15 years, then gave it to a neighbor for him to look at.
I never cared for antlers, I'd rather have a doe. The biggest hog i ever killed, I drug to the fence line with my jeep, and slit the hide so the coyotes would have an easier time.
A quality long range rifle will kill deer, with no real hunting skills required. All the skills you need can be learned at the range.
I'm not against horn hunting, or big game sniping, I just don't do it.

[oldandslow]

I would never have owned a 94 except a friend gave me one quite a few years ago. It should qualify as a classic. It is a saddle ring carbine with an octagon barrel and if the serial number information is correct it is 102 years old. It doesn't have a speck of blue left but the action is smooth and tight and the wood is in good shape with a little figure in the fore end. Now if someone hadn't shot corrosive ammo and not cleaned it, it would be a nice old gun. I have never shot it and doubt it would shoot a six inch group at 25 yards.

[Land_Owner]

30-30 ==> 1:12" twist
Hodgdon H338 pwdr @33.0 gr. w/170 gr. jacketed bullet ==> 41,500 CUP

I ain't no gun maker, and without breaking any safety extremes, am thinking someone could:
A.) ream that old gun barrel to a slightly larger diameter (0.3210")
B.) longer twist (1:16")
C.) turn it into a "32-40" (assuming reloading dies can be obtained)
D.) there are 170 grain FP jacketed bullets available or
E.) have a mold maker profile and fit a 165/170/200 gr. cast boolit (< 15,000 CUP)
F.) fire form a few 30-30 cases (32-40 Industry Standard is 39,000 CUP)
G.) wildcat your way through a few powders

and still have a 102 year old shooter.  Stranger things have happened I suppose.

Or hang the old gal on a wall somewhere in memory of what was.

[ironglow]

.
  Funny how people are..

  Back when the 3o/30 came out.. that smokeless powder round was the "end all, be all", for most folks.  That and the Savage 300, were the go-to high powers.

  Then came the 30/06.. followed by a host of other 'advances' 300 Win Mag etc....  Soon the animals were growing so much bigger and tougher..and the reliable old 30/30 was only a pea-shooter!

  There was an old story about a hunter who went to another state to hunt moose..  He got a nice trophy to bring home.

  When his hunting buddies asked him what rifle he used, he replied.."why, my old 30/30."

  Immediately he was challenged.. "Do you think the 30/30 was enough gun for a moose?"

  He came back quickly..  "Well, I thought it was, my guide thought it was..and so did the moose !."

   I never owned a model 94, but I have owned a model 336..and I think a lever action 30/30 cannot be beat for eastern deer & black bears.

[BUGEYE]

In 1963, I killed a Blacktail doe with my model 94.
The previous owner had installed a pistol scope out on the end of the barrel.
The field of view was tiny but since you could see the deer on either side of the scope, it somehow worked very well.
It was ugly though sitting out there like a wart on your nose.

[Buckskin]

The only thing holding back a 30-30 is effective yardage, otherwise it's a 30 cal just like the 300 win mag, 300 ultra mag, etc.  At 100 yards or less, it's better than the big boys as it doesn't destroy as much meat.

[BUGEYE]

The only thing holding back a 30-30 is effective yardage, otherwise it's a 30 cal just like the 300 win mag, 300 ultra mag, etc.  At 100 yards or less, it's better than the big boys as it doesn't destroy as much meat.

Yep, and I think the latest magnums have taken the hunt out of hunting.
I like to get up close and personal with what I'm hunting.

[neckisred]

Winchester X30306. You guys want a good laugh, Google search this for price and availability. My H&R Model 158 shoots one hole groups with this ammo. Couple years back this ammo was $12-$14 a box and everywhere. Gun shoots this ammo so well that I never felt the need to reload for it. None available locally for over a year. Finally gave in this morning and ordered a set of dies. Have a few hundred Speer and Sierra 150 grain spire points on hand and plenty of brass.

[ironglow]

The only thing holding back a 30-30 is effective yardage, otherwise it's a 30 cal just like the 300 win mag, 300 ultra mag, etc.  At 100 yards or less, it's better than the big boys as it doesn't destroy as much meat.

  Which is of course, why I specified for eastern deer and black bear...even moreso for those who hunt in hilly or mountanous country, as I do.

[Buckskin]

Winchester X30306. You guys want a good laugh, Google search this for price and availability. My H&R Model 158 shoots one hole groups with this ammo. Couple years back this ammo was $12-$14 a box and everywhere. Gun shoots this ammo so well that I never felt the need to reload for it. None available locally for over a year. Finally gave in this morning and ordered a set of dies. Have a few hundred Speer and Sierra 150 grain spire points on hand and plenty of brass.

Yeah, I saw 30-30 Remington Corelokt's for $44/box at a local sport shop, they also had bulk 22lr in Remington 525 packs for $125/box.  I told the guy behind the counter that word of this type of raping will get around and will hurt them in the long run...  He said, yeah - I just work here.

[cwlongshot]

I have been shooting 4198 & a Arsenal RD copy @ 170g.

[orerancher]

Ranch Dog, 310-180, From a NOE 5 Cavity.....3031. in most of My 30win....

[Land_Owner]

Lamenting the ammo shortage, I wrote a suggestion email to Guns & Ammo magazine 2 months ago, as they urged the magazine's readers to do, entitled "Name Change". which was subsequently published this month at the bottom of the 3rd column of Reader's Write.

[Lloyd Smale]

thats one thing ill argue. The 3030 is the only round (i know of) that has bullets made specifically for it and there thin jacketed and expand EASILY. Some of the most shot up deer ive processed were shot with 3030s. They tend to do alot more damage then an 06 shooting 180s or even a 270 shooting 150s. Its why the 3030 kills better then it should. Only gun i played with that was worse up close was a 300 wsm i had. It was finicky and only liked 150 hornady sst's. They were absolutely like bombs hitting deer under 200 yards. That gun lasted one season and i sold it.

The only thing holding back a 30-30 is effective yardage, otherwise it's a 30 cal just like the 300 win mag, 300 ultra mag, etc.  At 100 yards or less, it's better than the big boys as it doesn't destroy as much meat.

[Ranger99]

Just got my Handi put back together.
Hopefully I'll get to run some through
it and it'll work properly now.
Shoots plenty straight for a junky
budget break open rifle, that is when
it goes off. Now it has a good Wolff
spring and that should make it go.
The 30/30 Handis I've had were all
great guns. This Ilion gun is the only
problem child I've had

[Buckskin]

thats one thing ill argue. The 3030 is the only round (i know of) that has bullets made specifically for it and there thin jacketed and expand EASILY. Some of the most shot up deer ive processed were shot with 3030s. They tend to do alot more damage then an 06 shooting 180s or even a 270 shooting 150s. Its why the 3030 kills better then it should. Only gun i played with that was worse up close was a 300 wsm i had. It was finicky and only liked 150 hornady sst's. They were absolutely like bombs hitting deer under 200 yards. That gun lasted one season and i sold it.

The only thing holding back a 30-30 is effective yardage, otherwise it's a 30 cal just like the 300 win mag, 300 ultra mag, etc.  At 100 yards or less, it's better than the big boys as it doesn't destroy as much meat.

I don't know what you are arguing then??? If the 300 short mag destroys meat, one would think the 300 win mag and ultra mag would...

[Land_Owner]

Shoot 'em in the neck from a steady rest with practiced laser precision.  DRT, no tracking, and very little meat ruined, certainly none of the choice cuts.

[jedman]

 Just picked up a Savage M 1899 A in 30-30 this past Saturday. I also own a 99 H carbine in 303 Savage and a 99 E in 308 Win.
They are nice rifles and when I can buy them at a good price I buy them, the 30-30 and 303 cartridges are equals ballisticaly.
Both have killed all North American big game within its effective range.

jedman

[Lloyd Smale]

point was that the sst is a very explosive bullets and that bullet construction has as much to do with damage as velocity does. You will get less meat damage with a 3006 shooting a 150 barnes x or a 180 anything then you will with a 3030 using a 150 corelock. I have a 300 ultra mag and with premium bullets like barns x it sure doesnt cut deer in half. Even at close range. Believe me even with the wsm i sure wouldnt have used ssts if another stouter bullet shot well but that gun was a turd and thats the only bullet that shot well in it. All of my 300s. My 300 H&H 300 win 300wby go to loads are with x bullets. Difference is you post the "one would THINK" and I am post with what my eyes have seen. Ive shot many deer with all of those calibers with many different bullets. Do you have an ultra or any 300 mag and how many deer have you shot with the 3030 and that 300 mag to come to your conclusion? Bottom line is under a 100 yards with a good bolt gun ill pop them in the head and eat the whole deer.

thats one thing ill argue. The 3030 is the only round (i know of) that has bullets made specifically for it and there thin jacketed and expand EASILY. Some of the most shot up deer ive processed were shot with 3030s. They tend to do alot more damage then an 06 shooting 180s or even a 270 shooting 150s. Its why the 3030 kills better then it should. Only gun i played with that was worse up close was a 300 wsm i had. It was finicky and only liked 150 hornady sst's. They were absolutely like bombs hitting deer under 200 yards. That gun lasted one season and i sold it.

The only thing holding back a 30-30 is effective yardage, otherwise it's a 30 cal just like the 300 win mag, 300 ultra mag, etc.  At 100 yards or less, it's better than the big boys as it doesn't destroy as much meat.

I don't know what you are arguing then??? If the 300 short mag destroys meat, one would think the 300 win mag and ultra mag would...

[Lloyd Smale]

Shoot 'em in the neck from a steady rest with practiced laser precision.  DRT, no tracking, and very little meat ruined, certainly none of the choice cuts.

Necks give me lots of burger meat. I prefer the head or the ribs

[neckisred]

My old farmer buddy used to chuckle when he would see a skinned deer in the barn with no bullet holes. "Must have scared it to death"

[Buckskin]

point was that the sst is a very explosive bullets and that bullet construction has as much to do with damage as velocity does. You will get less meat damage with a 3006 shooting a 150 barnes x or a 180 anything then you will with a 3030 using a 150 corelock. I have a 300 ultra mag and with premium bullets like barns x it sure doesnt cut deer in half. Even at close range. Believe me even with the wsm i sure wouldnt have used ssts if another stouter bullet shot well but that gun was a turd and thats the only bullet that shot well in it. All of my 300s. My 300 H&H 300 win 300wby go to loads are with x bullets. Difference is you post the "one would THINK" and I am post with what my eyes have seen. Ive shot many deer with all of those calibers with many different bullets. Do you have an ultra or any 300 mag and how many deer have you shot with the 3030 and that 300 mag to come to your conclusion? Bottom line is under a 100 yards with a good bolt gun ill pop them in the head and eat the whole deer.

I didn't know you were specifically talking about SST's, well because you weren't and still aren't.  Some of the things you come up with are off the wall.  You will get less meat damage with a 3006 shooting a 150 barnes x or a 180 anything then you will with a 3030 using a 150 corelock.   A Corelokt from a 30-30 mushrooms (granted at lower velocity) will but generally stay together, heck they are only going about 2100 ft/sec and 1800 ft/lbs at the muzzle.  So how does that do more damage than a 30-06 180 "anything" going 2900 and hitting at 3400??? 

Yeah, I have a RUM, got it first year Remington came out with it.  Pretty much have it only hunting with a 200 gr Accubond, I have more accurate loads for paper out to 1000 yds.   When I first got the rifle I was on a doe hunt with a buddy of mine and prior to the hunt he was telling me that he always aims for shoulder so don't have to track.  The opportunity presented itself the next day, so I hit a doe at about 100 yards in the shoulder, there was absolutely nothing left of either shoulder other than mush.  Last time I did that...  I also shot a large buck at 20 ft, twice through lungs with 30-30 Corelokt's on a deer drive that just looked like .3" steel rods were pushed through it. Another good buck with 300WM straight on at 80 yds in throat, massive destruction when it hit the spine and all i found was the copper jacket in fragments.  You don't need to shoot 100 deer a year to have an idea of what you are talking about.

Bottom line is there are a lot of factors that go into meat damage - placement, velocity/energy, bullet size and bullet construction.   

[Lloyd Smale]

if you had actually killed deer with a barnes bullet in something like the 06 youd know what your talking about. For the most part if your not using a magnum they put a small hole in and a small hole out. I live up here where the 3030 is still a very popular round and 4 guys at our camp including my dad still use one and id bet through the years ive processed at least a 100 deer shot by 3030s. Like i said ive seen the mess a 3030 will make of a deer shot in the shoulder. The light jacketed bullet is what allows the 3030 to hit deer with more punch then the numbers say it should. You are the one dancing in circles here. do you really think i dont know that if you hit a deer in the shoulder at a 100 yards with a 300 ultra your going to get massive damage. I just dont understand the mindset that would make someone shoot a deer in the shoulder with an accurate bolt action in something that powerful right on the shoulder and expect to have anything to eat. The advantage with a gun like that is you can hit a deer IN THE RIBS at 400 yards and anchor it as well as doing the same with an o6 at 200 yards.If your not a good enough shot to place a bullet out of that moa gun into the brain bucket of a deer at a 100 yards then maybe a 3030 and a 50 yards limit fits you better.

 As to shooting a 100 deer a year (more like 50 in reality) not giving you a better idea of the killing power of different bullets and calibers? Thats just silly. Of course it does. If i judged guns and loads on one or two deer I shot or what someone else told me on the internet id just be talking out my but. If you wanted an expert opinion from a doctor on having surgery on your heart would you go to one thats done 5 heart surgerys or 500? You are the one talking in circles here. You compare the damage of a 3030 shooting through the rib cage to a 300wsm hitting the spine or a 300 ultra hitting a shoulder at a 100 yards!!! Sure doesnt take a genius to know which of those senerios will result in more meat damage. Load either of those 30 mags with something like a barnes or partition and shoot those same deer at the same ranges you did in the ribs like you did with the 3030 and then make your comparison. Sorry i cant give you my opinion other then a guess as to what youll find because i dont shoot does in the meat. Maybe id want to anchor the once in a lifetime buck with a shoulder shot but we dont shoot bucks doing crop damage and in normal deer season when i am shooting bucks a very long shot at camp for me is a 100 yards. Pretty sure i can take the eyeball out of a deer at that range.  We dont have farm fields at camp. So there sure isnt any sane reason for shooting a deer in the meat at less then a 100 yards other then you dont trust your shooting skills. Im out of this one now. I know from personal experience that what i posted here is fact. Ive shot enough deer to know. If it hurts your ego that i disagree with you or base my opinion on many kills and having processed MANY deer not one or two then i apologize.

then you post this.

Bottom line is there are a lot of factors that go into meat damage - placement, velocity/energy, bullet size and bullet construction.

which is exactly what im trying to tell you. 

point was that the sst is a very explosive bullets and that bullet construction has as much to do with damage as velocity does. You will get less meat damage with a 3006 shooting a 150 barnes x or a 180 anything then you will with a 3030 using a 150 corelock. I have a 300 ultra mag and with premium bullets like barns x it sure doesnt cut deer in half. Even at close range. Believe me even with the wsm i sure wouldnt have used ssts if another stouter bullet shot well but that gun was a turd and thats the only bullet that shot well in it. All of my 300s. My 300 H&H 300 win 300wby go to loads are with x bullets. Difference is you post the "one would THINK" and I am post with what my eyes have seen. Ive shot many deer with all of those calibers with many different bullets. Do you have an ultra or any 300 mag and how many deer have you shot with the 3030 and that 300 mag to come to your conclusion? Bottom line is under a 100 yards with a good bolt gun ill pop them in the head and eat the whole deer.

I didn't know you were specifically talking about SST's, well because you weren't and still aren't.  Some of the things you come up with are off the wall.  You will get less meat damage with a 3006 shooting a 150 barnes x or a 180 anything then you will with a 3030 using a 150 corelock.   A Corelokt from a 30-30 mushrooms (granted at lower velocity) will but generally stay together, heck they are only going about 2100 ft/sec and 1800 ft/lbs at the muzzle.  So how does that do more damage than a 30-06 180 "anything" going 2900 and hitting at 3400??? 

Yeah, I have a RUM, got it first year Remington came out with it.  Pretty much have it only hunting with a 200 gr Accubond, I have more accurate loads for paper out to 1000 yds.   When I first got the rifle I was on a doe hunt with a buddy of mine and prior to the hunt he was telling me that he always aims for shoulder so don't have to track.  The opportunity presented itself the next day, so I hit a doe at about 100 yards in the shoulder, there was absolutely nothing left of either shoulder other than mush.  Last time I did that...  I also shot a large buck at 20 ft, twice through lungs with 30-30 Corelokt's on a deer drive that just looked like .3" steel rods were pushed through it. Another good buck with 300WM straight on at 80 yds in throat, massive destruction when it hit the spine and all i found was the copper jacket in fragments.  You don't need to shoot 100 deer a year to have an idea of what you are talking about.

Bottom line is there are a lot of factors that go into meat damage - placement, velocity/energy, bullet size and bullet construction.

[Buckskin]

if you had actually killed deer with a barnes bullet in something like the 06 youd know what your talking about. For the most part if your not using a magnum they put a small hole in and a small hole out.

If you would have specified barnes bullets instead of " You will get less meat damage with a 3006 shooting a 150 barnes x or a 180 anything then you will with a 3030 using a 150 corelock.", we could have avoided all of this.  That statement is about as obtuse as they get... 

then you post this.

Bottom line is there are a lot of factors that go into meat damage - placement, velocity/energy, bullet size and bullet construction.

which is exactly what im trying to tell you. 

Again, if you would have said anything close, this entire obnoxious string could have been avoided...

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[Ranger99]

Shoot 'em in the neck from a steady rest with practiced laser precision.  DRT, no tracking, and very little meat ruined, certainly none of the choice cuts.

Necks give me lots of burger meat. I prefer the head or the ribs

JMHO- I don't take deer ribs. I shoot the
pump house anyway and it splinters the
ribs.  Deer ribs are fairly wasty anyway and
you don't get a mouthful of meat from them.
I debone the neck roast for sausage

[Buckskin]

Shoot 'em in the neck from a steady rest with practiced laser precision.  DRT, no tracking, and very little meat ruined, certainly none of the choice cuts.

Necks give me lots of burger meat. I prefer the head or the ribs

JMHO- I don't take deer ribs. I shoot the
pump house anyway and it splinters the
ribs.  Deer ribs are fairly wasty anyway and
you don't get a mouthful of meat from them.
I debone the neck roast for sausage

I agree, ribs are not worth the effort. Although I prefer lung shots as I love eating the heart and it's a blood trail a blind man could follow. Head shots leave way too much blood in the animal imo, stops heart immediately.

[orerancher]

Watched a Guy shoot the Lower Jaw off a Deer Once....

I was able to Catch up with It about 4hours later and Put It Down....Without the Dog, Don't Think I woulda ever Found It....

[BUGEYE]

Yeah, trying for head shots at long yardage is irresponsible IMO.
My longest shot at a deer was 50 yards shooting a .490 roundball out of a CVA left hand Hawken.
It was dim light in the woods and I shot high and took out about 8" of his backbone.

[northwoodneil]

I always blame velocity for bloodshot meat. A 45-70 300gr bullet at 1300 fps and you can eat right up to bullet hole if you don't shoot 'em in the meat.