The "most accurate" rifle bullet is not always the best

[Land_Owner]

I shoot a lot.  I'm a meat hunter.  Hogs have been high on my list as they have historically been numerous in my neighborhood, affording me A LOT of trigger time.  I went annually to South Carolina for deer meat, until their legislature started 4X price gouging non-resident license and tag fees (compared to residents) - sorry SOB's.

In almost 30-years of reloading ammunition and shooting bullets at game, I have tried a plethora of ammunition combinations, striving for the "most accurate", but foremost, the combination that will produce humane DRT shots.  "They don't take it well in the neck", as my SCDNR Host has told me all these years.

To understand my thinking that the "most accurate" combination is not the end all when hunting game, is in part to understand my hunting neighborhood, which is a thick jungle of saw palmetto, sable palm, oak hammock, and riverine swampland with long (up to 275 yards) and narrow (12-feet) shooting lanes affording about 5 seconds of seeing, reacting, and shooting prior to losing sight of the game.  If game is hit and does not immediately fall, it could well be "Game Over Man" for recovery, as crawling in the swamp on hands and knees behind a flashlight searching for a wounded hog at O'Dark-30 in 85 degree F and 95 percent humidity weather is a recipe for human disaster.  Waiting to recover until morning and daylight assures loss of the meat in these conditions.

I tried bullets by Federal, Winchester, Speer, Hornady, Sierra, and Nosler.  I found the Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet to be the most accurate on paper targets.  I won't shoot it at game anymore as the off side fist sized hole is ghastly (by comparison). 

Speer Grand Slam (GS) bullets are just plain expensive, fair to good accuracy, and penetrate like only one other I have tried.  I have not tried the evolutionary offerings in solids or strictly copper.  I won't use GS's again as they impart practically none of their energy while passing through as a pencil thin hole (as an FMJ might).

Winchester, Federal, Hornady, and Sierra make exposed lead tipped hunting bullets that rapidly expand on impact.  These too are accurate (to a degree) on paper targets.  Though not the most accurate, I would have been "OK" to have selected one of these and stopped looking.  I would have been mistaken if I had.

I shot the Nosler Partition at paper and though not quite as accurate as the Ballistic Tip, it compared well with the others, and on game for my conditions, I found in the Partition the BEST hunting bullet.  Accolades include accurate, penetrating (through and through), pencil thin in, pencil thin out, NEVER recovered one in game, very high energy shedding, and humane results.  To say I have taken hundreds of animals using Partitions, each with a single shot, would be an understatement.  Partitions lay them on the ground, many DRT, provided I do my part and put the bullet where it does its work the best.  I always use a rock sold rest and (prefer to) shoot them in the neck.

I've hunted "enough" (but am not through) to overcome any jitters, to control breathing and trigger management, to refuse a rushed or marginal shot, to know that this is only one of many animals in the woods - another will be along, and to enjoy the experience.  I am comfortable and confident in my equipment, my handloads, my stands, and my methods.  That's my $0.02.

[Lloyd Smale]

im not a fan of premium bullets for deer. I think the actual premium deer bullets are bullets like bt's sierras, ect. That is IF you really want dead right there kills. Sure they might mess up a couple more lbs of meat but it try not to shoot them in the meat in the first place. I could care less if theres even a baseball sized exit in the rib cage and the crows have to eat bloodshot ribs. Bullets like this are cheaper, kill quicker and are hands down more accurate. Ive killed a LOT of deer and flat out will tell you that you are being counter productive using premium bullets on deer. Worse offender of them all are small bore rifles using barnes bullets. If you love tracking wounded deer then buy a few boxes of 24 or 25 cal x bullets. Add to that I learned long ago that NO deer is worth risking pulling the trigger on when your not absolutely sure where your cross hairs are. It would have to be some real unique situation where id snap shoot at a deer in some thick woods. I guess I don't understand how a fist sized hole in the rib cage and a very dead deer is a bullet failure. Now if your shooting an 06 or a 300 mag at deer 25 yards away with a 130 grain bt I can see the problem. If that's the case grab a different gun or back the load off to 300 savage levels and not only save on bullet cost but save on powder and brass life to boot.

[northwoodneil]

Whether or not a bullet needs to be extremely accurate or just shootable has a lot to do with the distance you shoot at. My shots are 100 yds and under and a bullet that shoots 1 moa compared to .5 moa doesn't matter. For the last 15 years I've been shooting factory second Remington bullets and I haven't had one deer get out of sight after the shot. To each their own but  for DRT I prefer a heavy flat point bullet moving at moderate speeds. My choice for my hunting scenario,  300gr JSP @ 1850 fps in 45-70 gov. shoot 'em in the neck. Tracking job is 16 inches straight down.

[Lloyd Smale]

you do have a point. Im allways chasing sub moa performance out of my guns that I use for long range deer shooting. This year I put together an ar10 308 and it was to close to season and I didn't have a ton of time for load development. Found a load with a 150 sst that shot 1.5 or maybe a tiny bit better and said good enough. Figured id just use it for 200 yard set ups. Well I took it out one day because the field we were going to shoot had a max shot of 250 yards. Got to the farm and the plans changed. Farmer wanted a different field shot and there I was looking at 500 yards of shooting. Had two deer come out at just under 400 yards. Held on the first ones back and squeezed and heard the smack and watched a deer fold on the spot. Moved over to the second one did the same. heard the smack and the deer bolted to the woods. Figured he we go a poor shot with a poor load. Walked over saw blood followed it to the woods line and could see the deer dead from the field. Both shots right in the boiler room. Reality is even at 400 yards 2moa will get it done. Sure moa is a lot better but most don't have good enough trigger and breathing control to see the difference at 400 yards anyway. Shooting deer at 400 yards is a different game all together then 200 yards. Breathing, trigger control, absolute rock steady rest, wind doping all play more of a part then the difference between 1 inch groups and 1.5 inch groups.

Whether or not a bullet needs to be extremely accurate or just shootable has a lot to do with the distance you shoot at. My shots are 100 yds and under and a bullet that shoots 1 moa compared to .5 moa doesn't matter. For the last 15 years I've been shooting factory second Remington bullets and I haven't had one deer get out of sight after the shot. To each their own but  for DRT I prefer a heavy flat point bullet moving at moderate speeds. My choice for my hunting scenario,  300gr JSP @ 1850 fps in 45-70 gov. shoot 'em in the neck. Tracking job is 16 inches straight down.

[Land_Owner]

lloyd, you are REQUIRED to take your deer depredation hunts to another level than us "ordinary" meat gatherers.  Depredation hunting is on another level by its very nature and design.  You HAVE TO eliminate as many deer (or specific targets) as accurately and fast as they will stand still or take the hit and, knowing about you, it is done humanely.  That is to say - not spray and pray.

I don't know that level of shooting.  I "get it".  It is necessary and I applaud you for your perseverance in that.  I have never seen it or experienced it.  I wish I had.  Varmint control is a close as some get.  In Texas, I hear and see on-line that "hog control" is the gate which is always open and there appears to be no end of line.

My hunting and land owning host and mentor in SC was a 40+year SCDNR depredation hunter, a research biologist as well the State's Regional Biologist, who hunted as directed by the State Wildlife Department for, and at the necessity of farmers and the State's teaching Universities, out of the public view, year round, but in general not during the public's deer hunting season, and mostly when everyone else was at home and in bed.  Like you, he has SHOT and killed more deer in open fields and forests in his lifetime than I have casually SEEN in my entire lifetime.

A man gets real good at killing when it is his employment.  His tools and timing are sharp.  There is a "long distance" look in his eye that speaks of experience as the "thousand yard" stare is to the combat veteran.  It is a respected and necessary skill set that is deeply embedded and honed beyond the sharp eyed seasonal hunter.  His professional passion has long ago exceeded any need for participation in the recreational taking of wildlife. 

I know this from basking in the light of the man for nearly 30 years, from listening when he tells me something that I should hear, and in taking to heart that, which I can only imagine.  How much powder has been burned in depredation hunting only you two, who in total I still know so little about, can say.

[Lloyd Smale]

but theres allways a few on here and other forms that have shot 5 deer that know more about proper guns, bullets, butchering ect. They don't have the common sense you do to listen to someone that has some experience. When I want to mod my car I don't ask someone who drives a prius what I should do I ask someone who mods cars for a living. If I want to know what bait is going to catch me the most fish I don't go to the gold fish store and ask the yuppy whos running it what I should  use to catch salmon. If I want medical advice I don't go to an outdoors forum and ask how to keep my family safe I get that advice from doctor. Some just have egos that they don't check at the door and think because there daddy said something it can be taken to the bank. Comes to killing deer my dad asks me for advice. He knows that in that department ive been there and done that. I don't have a college degree, don't know s*** about contagious diseases, might miss spell some words here or not use proper grammar, might not be the most tactful or patient man with idiots,  but I do know what it takes to put down a deer.   

[Mule 11]

Wow. I wish I had shot 5 deer or modified my Prius. I get your point completely. Where can I grovel and worship such an expert as yourself? Please tell me so I can show you the respect you deserve ohh great one...

[Mule 11]

Here is a clue for ya. Some of us have learned from experts. Not self appointed experts that only rely on there own experience. Ya know handed down through generations  of cumulative experience and when went against that tutelage paid for it.

[Lloyd Smale]

so pray tell, how many deer does a person have to shoot to have a educated opinion on it that you will listen to. How many have you yourself killed. Ive got 32 so far this year. Probably well over 500 in my life.  Id say that gives me a pretty good ideal of what it takes to kill one. But ill bow to your superior knowledge and your so called experts that you fail to name. Is it your daddy and grandpa that killed maybe 50 deer in there lives with there 3220 or 3030? Lets see dad might have had an 06 or 270 grandpa would have been lucky to have a 3030 and his father probably used a black powder rifle. I sure dont ask my father advice on guns and sure wouldnt have asked my grandpa. Both of them could only afford a shotgun 22 and a deer rifle and they bought them used. Even one generation ago it was RARE for someone to have even two guns to compare. I suppose though your grandpa had 10 rifles to compare and your great grandpa probably was taught by the indians ::)Yup those generations sure bring alot to the table.  Who are these experts IF they do even exist what there using is THERE PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. Not a keyboard like you.  There lies the difference in me and you. I post about what ive actually seen and done. You post (when its not just a blatant personal attack which is rare) about what some blow hole trying to sell an article to a bs rag like guns and ammo that is just a commercial for some product the adverisers gave him for free. Bottom line is its just another blow hole post of yours looking for a way to personally attack. Its ok. Just a matter of time before you step over the line and get banned. Ive seen a half a dozen just like you come here and get the boot. It wont be because of me though. Personaly i like keeping you around for the entertainment. 

Here is a clue for ya. Some of us have learned from experts. Not self appointed experts that only rely on there own experience. Ya know handed down through generations  of cumulative experience and when went against that tutelage paid for it.

[Mule 11]

When my Grandfather hunted deer there were far less deer then now. Yet somehow I remember having deer on the table. My Grandfather was a decent man he did not brag or lie and did not insult others for personal pleasure. His deer gun was a double barrel Ithaca 12 gauge shotgun that I am now in possession of. There were at least six long guns in his closet.  I realize at some point I will more then likely be banned and you will still be here insulting at one time or another every member on this forum...