Two Strokes of Genius

[Bob Riebe]

This gent would not be 44 and i remember watching his father race when I was still in my twenties.
The class name has changed, but back then it was D Sports Racing and in that class 2 strokes ruled while sounding amazing back then with no mufflers.



https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/two-strokes-genius/

[Lloyd Smale]

id love to hear what that thing sounded like.

[geezerbiker]

I used to really love two stroke motorcycles.  There's nothing like them but they started to be phased out around 1975.  I still have a Yamaha 350 two stroke twin that I hope to restore some day.

Both Yamaha and Suzuki promised big two stroke 4's but never delivered. Yamaha sort of did by making a race bike our of the RD750 project.  The TZ750 that it became was arguably the most successful racing bike ever...

Those were the days...

Tony

[Argent 88]

I remember the Kawasaki two stroke 500s. A lot of Sailors on base bought those. Mix the oil into the gas tank.
Then go out and crash it. A lot of that happened.

[Lloyd Smale]

had a kawasaki 750 tripple for about 3 months. Thing felt like a rocket. I know theres much faster bikes today but that ill handling thing with its narrow explosive power band just felt FAST! Drove it that summer a bit and my buddy talked me out of it. Thats when i bought my first harley. Still remember a kind in high school that got expelled for doing a dirty burnout in one of the bay of our auto mechanic class with his 500 triple. geezerbiker even those rd350s were hot in there day. Suzuki did make a 750 that was liquid cooled. It was nicknamed the water buffalo. but it was more of a gold wing compeditor then a performance bike.  they also made the 380 and 550 triples. But even those wouldnt run with the kawasakis. Wonder what 2 stroke bikes would be like today with the advances in outboards and snowmobiles. My 800 twin cat puts out a 170 hp. Theres 2 stroke v motors in outboards that are compact enough to fit in a bike that crank out 250hp or even more. The do it with not much more pollution or gas consumption then the new 4 stroke motors in them and are lighter.

[geezerbiker]

The Kawasaki H2 750 was light and had a lot of power for it's weight.  The frame was like a wet noodle and they didn't get the name Widowmaker for nothing...  I had one briefly and that was still too long.

A lot of bikes have passed though my hands and I got to ride a lot of truly exceptional and rare machines along the way...  One of the more memorable bikes was a Vincent Blackshadow.  Not at all fast by today's standards but fast and very innovative for its time.

Tony

[Lloyd Smale]

big problem with the h2 came from the fact the back wheel wasnt perfectly in line with the rear wheel when going down the road. Alot of improvement was done by using your spokes to pull the front wheel over. The real problem wasnt the frame but the fact in a corner this caused oscillations that went into the frame. That said they sure were not a great handling bike. But with the wheels lined up with each other and a good set of tires i could easily hang with a 750 honda (which by todays standards would be called a widow maker it self) Bikes like the 900 kawasaki and the gs1000 suzuki's put both of them to shame. Worse on i ever road was the 750 triple shaft drive yamaha. I think the term torque steer was invented to describe it.

The real widow maker rep came from the power band. It was like a light switch (the 500s were even worse) Get on it and it was about dead till it hit around 3500 rpm then all hell broke loose. Front end wanted to find the sky. Do that in the middle of a fast corner and it was a recipe for disaster. Its about like taking a Silverado into a corner and half way through it hitting a nitrous oxide button. Other them big bore motocross drivers of the day nobody experienced anything like it. Hot bikes of the day were the Norton commando, Harley sportster ect and they were smooth torque monsters compared to that lit fire cracker.

Kind of remind me of the first time my ex wife drove my grand national. If you ever drove one of them you surely know what turbo lag was. they were just like the h1 a dead v6 buick until about 3000 rpm then all hell broke loose. She was coming out of walmart and had to cross the medium to get to her side of the road. There was a lot of traffic so she hit it. Made it as far as the medium and the turbo spooled and she was sideways burning rubber. She was so shook that she wouldn't drive the car again for over a month. The h1 combined that kind of explosive power with a bit of 70s poor handling tossed in and add to that the average buyer was a guy stepping up from a 350 honda and it was a recipe for disaster. Its not much different today. Yup the bikes handle like race bikes but when the sell a 180hp 10 second quarter mile race bike with a license  plate on it to any 19 year old kid that can get a loan  then turn him loose on the street with it. its a wonder more aren't killed then are. that right there is every bit as dangerous or classified as a widow maker then any 75hp kawasaki. Heck some touring bikes are as quick and faster today then the h1 was and there not exactly road racers either.

[Lloyd Smale]

you should have held on to that black shadow. Now that was a cool machine. but then i should have held on to some of the muscle cars i had too. But they werent worth much back then and if you wanted something new a working man had to part with the old.

[geezerbiker]

The Vincent belonged to a friend of mine.  I couldn't afford one, even back then they were expensive and now they're just crazy.  I had a couple Nortons back then and they're crazy expensive now too.

Tony

[Lloyd Smale]

still remember as a young boy going to the state fair and seeing  those heavy metal flakes they used on nortons of the day and remember one there that i dont know if it was factory or a custom that had a american flag job done to it like easy rider. I probably stood and stared till my parents drug me away. Still remember too my dads two buddys drag racing out in front of the house in late 60s. One had a norton and the other a straight piped sportster (norton one both times) . I think the ground shook. I thought they were SO FAST!!

The Vincent belonged to a friend of mine.  I couldn't afford one, even back then they were expensive and now they're just crazy.  I had a couple Nortons back then and they're crazy expensive now too.

Tony

[geezerbiker]

I'd bet that you were looking at the Norton High Rider.  That bike didn't sell very well and most got a different seat and handlebars before leaving the showroom.

I had a 64 or 65 Atlas.  It's been too many years for me to remember for sure.  I also had a 65 G15CS 750.  It was supposed to be a Matchless but was titled as a Norton.  The next year that model was the N15CS and were sold as Nortons.  The last one I had was a early 1970's Commando.  I list them in order I got them but I had them all at onecs and had the G15CS the longest. 

The Atlas and G15CS had terrible front brakes.  I nearly broadsided a car on my first outing on one of them.  I discovered that the front drum brake on the early Commando was the same size but double leading shoe unlike the single leading shoe on the earlier bikes.  I swapped the brake backing plate assembly out for a Commando unit and it made a world of difference. 

The sounded like thunder but weren't all that fast by the standards of the mid 70's much less today.

Tony

[Lloyd Smale]

i know it had mild ape hanger bars a sissy bar and a red white and blue metalflake job thats about all i remember. Had to be in the late 60s.

I'd bet that you were looking at the Norton High Rider.  That bike didn't sell very well and most got a different seat and handlebars before leaving the showroom.

I had a 64 or 65 Atlas.  It's been too many years for me to remember for sure.  I also had a 65 G15CS 750.  It was supposed to be a Matchless but was titled as a Norton.  The next year that model was the N15CS and were sold as Nortons.  The last one I had was a early 1970's Commando.  I list them in order I got them but I had them all at onecs and had the G15CS the longest. 

The Atlas and G15CS had terrible front brakes.  I nearly broadsided a car on my first outing on one of them.  I discovered that the front drum brake on the early Commando was the same size but double leading shoe unlike the single leading shoe on the earlier bikes.  I swapped the brake backing plate assembly out for a Commando unit and it made a world of difference. 

The sounded like thunder but weren't all that fast by the standards of the mid 70's much less today.

Tony

[geezerbiker]

That sounds like the Highrider.  Like I said, they didn't sell well...  One would be hard pressed to find an original one today.  I just missed out on getting a John Player Special Norton 850.  I was a little to slow to pull the trigger on it.  The Bike shop next door to the Honda shop I worked at had it...

Tony

[RaySendero]

.....

Yep - Bet it would be Impressive!

I still to this day, think a 2-stroke dirt bike with an expansion chamber is impressive, too.

[geezerbiker]

I used to have a page on my website dedicated to pictures of customers bikes.  Now I'm using it for pix I've taken or bikes I like.  You may find it interesting.  It's work in progress....


http://www.oregonmotorcycleparts.com/pix.html

Tony