Author Topic: House votes to decriminalize pot at the fed level.  (Read 4947 times)

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Offline Doublebass73

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Re: House votes to decriminalize pot at the fed level.
« Reply #30 on: December 08, 2020, 02:21:42 AM »
OK..but as I see it, we already have a problem with booze..I see no way approving of other intoxicants helps the problem.
 

All one needs to do is read the Constitution and the 10th Amendment to find out that any type of drug prohibition at the federal level is unconstitutional. You may not like that fact but it's still a fact. The DEA is just as unconstitutional as the ATF. Drugs are a state issue, period. If you're in favor of federal drug laws you're in favor of the government violating the 10th Amendment. Notice how when alcohol was banned at the federal level it was done so via a Constitutional Amendment. That's because back then the government was actually following the Constitution and the 10th Amendment. It's no different with any other drug, if you want them banned according to the Constitution (the law of the land) then they need to be banned with a Constitutional Amendment. Otherwise drugs are an issue for the states to decide according to the 10th. As a conservative you do believe in states rights, don't you?
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."

---- William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

Offline ironglows

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Re: House votes to decriminalize pot at the fed level.
« Reply #31 on: December 08, 2020, 05:25:56 AM »
If we're gonna get Biblical on the issue, no where in the Bible does it say to abstain from alcohol. In fact it says a little wine is good for the stomach.

What the Bible DOES SAY, is to abstain from strong drink, and to not be a wine bibber. aka, a drunk.

These scriptures tell you that there have
always been, since the beginning, those that abuse EVERYTHING!..

Do we ban food, to prevent "gluttony"?

Theres a line between use, and abuse, and Christianity and fanaticism.
  Food is necessary for life... ...And as I freely said, perhaps my Christianity is speaking to loudly.. ""Everything is permissible," but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible," but not everything builds up."  (1 Cor 10:23)  Sorry, but i just can't see the goodness involved, where one may unnecessarily imbibe in a habit which could result in a slavish addiction!
"They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns, then it will be through the bullet"      (Saul Alinsky) ...hero of the left..

Offline Dee

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Re: House votes to decriminalize pot at the fed level.
« Reply #32 on: December 08, 2020, 05:29:33 AM »
If we're gonna get Biblical on the issue, no where in the Bible does it say to abstain from alcohol. In fact it says a little wine is good for the stomach.

What the Bible DOES SAY, is to abstain from strong drink, and to not be a wine bibber. aka, a drunk.

These scriptures tell you that there have
always been, since the beginning, those that abuse EVERYTHING!..

Do we ban food, to prevent "gluttony"?

Theres a line between use, and abuse, and Christianity and fanaticism.
  Food is necessary for life...

So is water, so what's your point?
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline ironglows

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Re: House votes to decriminalize pot at the fed level.
« Reply #33 on: December 08, 2020, 05:43:16 AM »
OK..but as I see it, we already have a problem with booze..I see no way approving of other intoxicants helps the problem.
 

All one needs to do is read the Constitution and the 10th Amendment to find out that any type of drug prohibition at the federal level is unconstitutional. You may not like that fact but it's still a fact. The DEA is just as unconstitutional as the ATF. Drugs are a state issue, period. If you're in favor of federal drug laws you're in favor of the government violating the 10th Amendment. Notice how when alcohol was banned at the federal level it was done so via a Constitutional Amendment. That's because back then the government was actually following the Constitution and the 10th Amendment. It's no different with any other drug, if you want them banned according to the Constitution (the law of the land) then they need to be banned with a Constitutional Amendment. Otherwise drugs are an issue for the states to decide according to the 10th. As a conservative you do believe in states rights, don't you?

  Again..I don't argue the legality of the stuff, but I wish more people would consider the consequences of volunteering to use the weed..  " "Everything is permissible," but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible," but not everything builds up." (1 Cor 10:23)  Of course, not everyone is bound to Christian principles... but they have been a good source of behavior for thousands of years.  In any case, I am not arguing legality, but efficacy !
         Abortion is legal, but it still produces a sense of revulsion and rejection.
"They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns, then it will be through the bullet"      (Saul Alinsky) ...hero of the left..

Offline ironglows

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Re: House votes to decriminalize pot at the fed level.
« Reply #34 on: December 08, 2020, 05:47:39 AM »
" So is water, so what's your point? "
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  Point being, food and water are necessary to maintain life, but obviously, dope isn't !
"They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns, then it will be through the bullet"      (Saul Alinsky) ...hero of the left..

Offline Dee

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Re: House votes to decriminalize pot at the fed level.
« Reply #35 on: December 08, 2020, 06:28:35 AM »
Alcohol is a drug/dope, which would also include "wine".

That your a teetotaler is fine, but not necessarily Biblical except in your view.  There are many drugs, that you in your lifetime have personally injested for what ever medical reason,  so drugs can be good.

I don't intend to smoke any marijuana, but some folks do,  and it is their constitutional right to do so, as long as they don't infringe on our rights.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Bob Riebe

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Re: House votes to decriminalize pot at the fed level.
« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2020, 08:18:27 AM »
" So is water, so what's your point? "
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  Point being, fooe and water are necessary to maintain life, but obviously, dope isn't !
Yep on the other site , Conan used to speak often on foo-foo stuff.  8)  8)

Offline Doublebass73

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Re: House votes to decriminalize pot at the fed level.
« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2020, 10:37:41 AM »
Alcohol is a drug/dope, which would also include "wine".

That your a teetotaler is fine, but not necessarily Biblical except in your view.  There are many drugs, that you in your lifetime have personally injested for what ever medical reason,  so drugs can be good.

I don't intend to smoke any marijuana, but some folks do,  and it is their constitutional right to do so, as long as they don't infringe on our rights.

Exactly. When I was a teenager my right hand was crushed in an industrial accident at work. It was the worst pain I've ever felt in my life. When I got to the emergency room they gave me a powerful drug called morphine. The pain was gone quickly so that I was comfortable until the surgeons were ready. I would call that a good drug.
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."

---- William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

Offline nw_hunter

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Re: House votes to decriminalize pot at the fed level.
« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2020, 01:59:23 PM »
Alcohol is a drug/dope, which would also include "wine".

That your a teetotaler is fine, but not necessarily Biblical except in your view.  There are many drugs, that you in your lifetime have personally injested for what ever medical reason,  so drugs can be good.

I don't intend to smoke any marijuana, but some folks do,  and it is their constitutional right to do so, as long as they don't infringe on our rights.

I suffer from Sciatic nerve damage, and the pain from it can be excruciating. I have tried the gummy laced candies, and for a sleeping aid, I have never had anything work better.It works great on nerve pain. I use the VA for a primary med, and my Dr there has told me that many of his patients use MJ for pain medication, and he knows it works.However, he cannot prescribe it, and if you test positive for it at a VA facility, you cannot get a pain med prescription for other needs. I am tested every 6 months now before they will renew a pain medication. Most of these drugs they prescribe for nerve pain is about as effective as a glass of water.
Freedom Of Speech.....Once we lose it, every other freedom will follow.

Offline teamnelson

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Re: House votes to decriminalize pot at the fed level.
« Reply #39 on: December 08, 2020, 02:31:45 PM »
What Christ expects of me is different than what I should expect of my neighbor through force of law.
held fast

Offline Dee

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Re: House votes to decriminalize pot at the fed level.
« Reply #40 on: December 08, 2020, 02:51:14 PM »
What Christ expects of me is different than what I should expect of my neighbor through force of law.

ADZACKLY!
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline ironglows

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Re: House votes to decriminalize pot at the fed level.
« Reply #41 on: December 08, 2020, 02:59:51 PM »
As I said, I'm not disputing t e legality of it.  Shucks; abortion is legal too, but anyone with a conscience should know that is not quite right..
  ..But as I also said, perhaps my Christianity is intruding too much for general discussion, since I presume I expected that most people would prefer to take 'the more noble path'.
"They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns, then it will be through the bullet"      (Saul Alinsky) ...hero of the left..

Offline Ranger99

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Re: House votes to decriminalize pot at the fed level.
« Reply #42 on: December 08, 2020, 03:06:42 PM »
. . It was the worst pain I've ever felt in my life. When I got to the emergency room they gave me a powerful drug called morphine. The pain was gone quickly so that I was comfortable until the surgeons were ready. I would call that a good drug.

Yes, morphine can be good when prescribed and
used as prescribed. I've had to have some myself
in the hospital just to get a few hours of sleep.
My mother had to have some to kill her pain in
her last months here on earth.
I'm glad we have such an affordable thing
for medical uses.
But recreational drug use is an entirely different
thing, and way too many people get those
things mixed up for some reason. I don't
have any sympathy for someone who gets
drunk or high and plows their vehicle into
some innocent party because of their poor
decision. About twice a month or more
now some border jumper gets loaded and
blasts down the wrong lane and plows
head on into some innocent party.
They just arrested one the other day that
ran over a firefighter.
Wanna get drunk or high?
Stay in your own house and party
till you puke. If you have to lay in
the floor covered in vomit and
your own waste, good for you.
18 MINUTES.  . . . . . .

Offline Doublebass73

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Re: House votes to decriminalize pot at the fed level.
« Reply #43 on: December 09, 2020, 02:30:08 AM »
. . It was the worst pain I've ever felt in my life. When I got to the emergency room they gave me a powerful drug called morphine. The pain was gone quickly so that I was comfortable until the surgeons were ready. I would call that a good drug.

Yes, morphine can be good when prescribed and
used as prescribed. I've had to have some myself
in the hospital just to get a few hours of sleep.
My mother had to have some to kill her pain in
her last months here on earth.
I'm glad we have such an affordable thing
for medical uses.
But recreational drug use is an entirely different
thing, and way too many people get those
things mixed up for some reason. I don't
have any sympathy for someone who gets
drunk or high and plows their vehicle into
some innocent party because of their poor
decision. About twice a month or more
now some border jumper gets loaded and
blasts down the wrong lane and plows
head on into some innocent party.
They just arrested one the other day that
ran over a firefighter.
Wanna get drunk or high?
Stay in your own house and party
till you puke. If you have to lay in
the floor covered in vomit and
your own waste, good for you.

I believe that everything should be legal as far as drugs go, a free man should never have to ask permission from the government to ingest something into his body.

With that being said I'm also for stiff mandatory sentences for committing crimes under the influence of drugs including alcohol. A first time offender should be looking at years in jail. If you kill someone under the influence of any drug you should be looking at decades in jail. That would be much more effective than the "ban" on drugs we have now. Banning drugs has been even less effective than banning guns at reducing crime, it's a joke.
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."

---- William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

Offline Doublebass73

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Re: House votes to decriminalize pot at the fed level.
« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2020, 02:32:32 AM »
Alcohol is a drug/dope, which would also include "wine".

That your a teetotaler is fine, but not necessarily Biblical except in your view.  There are many drugs, that you in your lifetime have personally injested for what ever medical reason,  so drugs can be good.

I don't intend to smoke any marijuana, but some folks do,  and it is their constitutional right to do so, as long as they don't infringe on our rights.

I suffer from Sciatic nerve damage, and the pain from it can be excruciating. I have tried the gummy laced candies, and for a sleeping aid, I have never had anything work better.It works great on nerve pain. I use the VA for a primary med, and my Dr there has told me that many of his patients use MJ for pain medication, and he knows it works.However, he cannot prescribe it, and if you test positive for it at a VA facility, you cannot get a pain med prescription for other needs. I am tested every 6 months now before they will renew a pain medication. Most of these drugs they prescribe for nerve pain is about as effective as a glass of water.

My girlfriend had rheumatoid arthritis and a weed prescription for it. She uses the gummies to sleep as well, they have worked better than everything else she's tried.
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."

---- William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

Offline teamnelson

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Re: House votes to decriminalize pot at the fed level.
« Reply #45 on: December 09, 2020, 04:22:12 AM »
As I said, I'm not disputing t e legality of it.  Shucks; abortion is legal too, but anyone with a conscience should know that is not quite right..
  ..But as I also said, perhaps my Christianity is intruding too much for general discussion, since I presume I expected that most people would prefer to take 'the more noble path'.

Most Christians would prefer to take the more noble path, and as long as the Government does not prohibit Christians from doing so, or require our resources (taxes, etc.) support those who do not take the noble path, then we have religious liberty as our founders intended. Nothing today prevents a believer from following the more noble path. Most Americans are not Christians though, and some who call themselves thus, most likely are not, so it really is the minority voice - and always has been - that desire the more noble path. Minorities never lead democracies.

As for drugs, truly its not what a man puts into his body that defiles him, but what is already in man. Untill a man is made righteous through union with Christ, no law of man is going to change the heart of man to not desire to put filth into their body, through their mouths, their eyes, or their veins.
held fast

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: House votes to decriminalize pot at the fed level.
« Reply #46 on: December 09, 2020, 04:42:06 AM »
. . It was the worst pain I've ever felt in my life. When I got to the emergency room they gave me a powerful drug called morphine. The pain was gone quickly so that I was comfortable until the surgeons were ready. I would call that a good drug.

Yes, morphine can be good when prescribed and
used as prescribed. I've had to have some myself
in the hospital just to get a few hours of sleep.
My mother had to have some to kill her pain in
her last months here on earth.
I'm glad we have such an affordable thing
for medical uses.
But recreational drug use is an entirely different
thing, and way too many people get those
things mixed up for some reason. I don't
have any sympathy for someone who gets
drunk or high and plows their vehicle into
some innocent party because of their poor
decision. About twice a month or more
now some border jumper gets loaded and
blasts down the wrong lane and plows
head on into some innocent party.
They just arrested one the other day that
ran over a firefighter.
Wanna get drunk or high?
Stay in your own house and party
till you puke. If you have to lay in
the floor covered in vomit and
your own waste, good for you.

I believe that everything should be legal as far as drugs go, a free man should never have to ask permission from the government to ingest something into his body.

With that being said I'm also for stiff mandatory sentences for committing crimes under the influence of drugs including alcohol. A first time offender should be looking at years in jail. If you kill someone under the influence of any drug you should be looking at decades in jail. That would be much more effective than the "ban" on drugs we have now. Banning drugs has been even less effective than banning guns at reducing crime, it's a joke.
^^^^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^^^^
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Give me liberty, or give me death
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Offline Argent 88

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Re: House votes to decriminalize pot at the fed level.
« Reply #47 on: December 09, 2020, 05:11:17 AM »
Our neighbor was using cheap,vodka on an injury, because there was no rubbing alcohol to be found thanks to covid. Our local DG put some aside for him when they finally got some in. Lots of Hydrogen Peroxide on the shelves though. But I was told by his Nurse it isn't as good as alcohol for the type of injury he had.

Offline geezerbiker

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Re: House votes to decriminalize pot at the fed level.
« Reply #48 on: December 09, 2020, 06:58:44 AM »

I believe that everything should be legal as far as drugs go, a free man should never have to ask permission from the government to ingest something into his body.

With that being said I'm also for stiff mandatory sentences for committing crimes under the influence of drugs including alcohol. A first time offender should be looking at years in jail. If you kill someone under the influence of any drug you should be looking at decades in jail. That would be much more effective than the "ban" on drugs we have now. Banning drugs has been even less effective than banning guns at reducing crime, it's a joke.

I don't know if I could agree more.  The FDA has proven to be a department full of swamp creatures.

Tony

Offline teamnelson

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Re: House votes to decriminalize pot at the fed level.
« Reply #49 on: December 09, 2020, 09:14:07 AM »
Personally I don't care what a person does or takes medicinally, or even if they want to shrink their hippocampus and amygdala and lower their IQ 10 points.
I DON'T CARE.

But what I do care about is when one of these high flyers does harm to me and mine, I get to exercise full unhindered
LEX TALIONIS.....fully.
.
.TM7

Justice is tied to the act, not the condition of the actor at the moment of action. LEX TALIONIS does not care why, how you felt, what you smoked, drank, ate, or injected before the act. You did the act, you get the justice.

I think until we restore capital punishment for capital crimes, we do not have a just society and therefore cannot have a free society.
held fast

Offline Dee

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Re: House votes to decriminalize pot at the fed level.
« Reply #50 on: December 09, 2020, 09:28:12 AM »
Living in a free society comes with risks. Nothing in life is really free. Even Salvation by Grace has requirements.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Matt

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Re: House votes to decriminalize pot at the fed level.
« Reply #51 on: December 09, 2020, 09:38:29 AM »
Marijuana May Not Lower Your IQ
Rigorous new studies should be able to settle the matter


Around the world, about 188 million people use marijuana every year. The drug has been legalized for recreational use in 11 U.S. states, and it may eventually become legal at the federal level. In a Gallup survey conducted last summer, 12 percent of American adults reported that they smoked marijuana, including 22 percent of 18- to 29-year-olds. Those are the stats. The consequences remain a mystery.

As access to marijuana increases—and while acceptance of the drug grows and perception of its harmfulness diminishes—it is important to consider the potential for long-term ill effects, especially in users who start young. One of marijuana’s best-documented consequences is short-lived interference with memory. The substance makes it harder to get information into memory and, subsequently, to access it, with larger doses causing progressively more problems. Much less documented, however, is whether the drug has lasting effects on cognitive abilities. Finding the answer to that question is essential. Depending on the severity of any such effects and their persistence, marijuana use could have significant downstream impacts on education, employment, job performance and income.

There are plausible reasons why the teenage brain may be especially vulnerable to the effects of marijuana use. Natural cannabinoids play an essential role in brain cell migration and development from fetal life onward. And adolescence is a crucial age for finalizing brain sculpting and white matter proliferation. The hippocampi, paired structures in the temporal lobe that are crucial in the formation of new memories, are studded with cannabinoid receptors. THC, the main ingredient behind marijuana’s “high,” acts on the brain’s cannabinoid receptors to mimic some of the effects of the body’s endogenous cannabinoids, such as anandamide. The compound’s effects are more persistent and nonphysiological, however. It may be throwing important natural processes out of balance.

A key report on marijuana appeared in 2012. It was issued by a research group that had tracked the development of 1,000 New Zealanders born in the city of Dunedin in the early 1970s. Having assessed measures of cognition and IQ starting at age three, the researchers recorded participants’ use of the drug from their early teen years through their 30s. While those who never used marijuana showed slight IQ increases over time, users experienced steady IQ declines proportional to how long they had smoked and how much. At age 38, users who had started young reported more problems with subjective thinking, and their close friends described them as having attention and memory difficulties. Those who smoked marijuana heavily as adolescents and later quit never fully returned to the baseline. The effect involved all cognitive domains, from remembering lists of words to processing information, solving problems and paying attention. The three dozen people who had used the drug most persistently had an overall decline of around six to eight IQ points. That’s a big deal. So you might think, “Case closed. Smoking dope makes you dopey.” But not so fast.

In a world run by evil scientists, determining the effects of marijuana on IQ would be simple: A randomly determined half of the population would be exposed to the drug during adolescence, and the remainder would be given a placebo. Scientists could compare subjects’ cognitive scores before and after marijuana use, and, presto, you would have your answer. For such answers in the real world, however, we rely on epidemiology, a branch of science that addresses population-level questions ethically. Two important longitudinal strategies for disentangling cause versus consequences are large-scale cohort studies and twin designs. The advantage of the former strategy, as used in the Dunedin study, is that each participant acts as his or her own control. Given that every child starts with a different IQ, it is simple to measure whether Johnny’s or Janie’s scores rise or fall over time in relation to their marijuana use (measured by individual accounts of the quantity, frequency and duration of that use.)

The second strategy proceeds from a different logic. Because twins grow up with the same family backgrounds and are genetically very similar  (nearly precisely so in identical twins), they form perfect experimental controls for each other. If Twin A smokes cannabis while Twin B doesn’t, then researchers have a tightly controlled mini experiment that helps rule out confounding factors such as Dad’s job or the alcoholism in Mom’s family. With epidemiological twin studies, a researcher is able to look across an entire sample and summarize all the relevant effects.

Two such researchers are Nicholas Jackson of the University of Southern California and William Iacono of the University of Minnesota, who worked with their colleagues to examine data from two longitudinal studies of adolescent twins in California and Minnesota. The researchers measured the twins’ intelligence between nine and 12 years of age, before any drug use, and did so again between ages 17 and 20. Exactly as in the Dunedin study, marijuana users had lower test scores and showed notable reductions in IQ over time. But in Jackson and Iacono’s analysis, marijuana use and IQ were completely uncorrelated, and IQ measures fell equally in both the users and abstainers. Subsequent twin studies, including one performed with U.K. data by the Dunedin team, corroborated these findings of no relationship between marijuana use and a falling IQ.
 
How can we explain these discrepancies? First, young marijuana users are many times more likely to also use alcohol and other illicit drugs. And when epidemiologists factor binge drinking, nicotine and other drug use into their models, marijuana’s cognitive effects evaporate. Thus, IQ decline seems more nonspecifically related to general substance use. But this observation doesn’t explain why IQ also falls in nonusing twins of cannabis users. Jackson, Iacono and their colleagues noted that at baseline, prior to any substance involvement, future marijuana users in one of the two cohorts they examined already had significantly lower IQ scores. Put another way, cannabis did not drag down their IQ; it was already low.

Next, investigators uncovered shared underlying vulnerability factors that explained both marijuana use and IQ decreases. For example, behavioral traits such as impulsivity and excessive risk-taking predicted both substance use and lower IQ, as did being raised in a family that did not value education. Delinquent kids received lower grades because of their tendency to skip school and use drugs. So cannabis use was not a culprit in cognitive decline. A welter of inherited and environmental factors seemed to explain both.

How can we decide among apparently convincing yet opposing sets of findings? The early-middle-aged subjects in New Zealand had used cannabis over a much longer time span than had the late-teen twins in Minnesota. Perhaps adolescent cannabis use has no detectable cognitive impact except at very high levels and/or over many years. For now, investigators are eagerly awaiting data from the recently launched Adolescent Brain and Cognitive Development (ABCD) study. ABCD is following 11,000 U.S. 10-year-olds in a national epidemiological sample with serial IQ testing and brain imaging to capture the trajectories of normal brain and IQ development prior to any substance use—and to document any longitudinal consequences of such use. This research has the potential to settle the issue of the relationship of adolescent marijuana use to changes in cognition. Scientists will begin to see meaningful results in the next few years, as these subjects reach their mid-teens.

Last year former Food and Drug Administration commissioner Scott Gottlieb warned about the potential harm embedded in “the great natural experiment we’re conducting in this country by making THC widely available.” His concerns return us to the core issue. Physicians and lawmakers need a more accurate sense of THC’s effects on adolescent minds so that parents, teachers and social planners can respond preemptively to teenage marijuana use. If long-term cognitive effects are shown to be real, this conclusion should result in appropriate plans to restrict use through educational efforts and tough legal sanctions. On the other hand, if cognitive effects are transient or better explained by sociological phenomena, we can all take a step back and direct our efforts and resources elsewhere.



source: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/marijuana-may-not-lower-your-iq/
Any fool can know. The point is to understand.”
― Albert Einstein