Author Topic: Hannuka and the Maccabes  (Read 3270 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline powderman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32823
  • Gender: Male
Hannuka and the Maccabes
« on: December 11, 2020, 04:33:09 AM »
   
Hannuka and the Maccabes
« on: Today at 10:30:24 AM »

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/hanukkah-2020-mark-gerson

Mark Gerson: On Hanukkah, advertising the miracle
A miracle is something that should be appreciated, understood and shared with others
Mark Gerson By Mark Gerson | Fox News


Hanukkah: Five things to know
On streets where Jews live around the world, there is a display in windows or on doorsteps that is at once familiar and glorious. It is the Hanukkah menorah, celebrating a holiday that began at sundown Thursday. The root of the word "menorah" is "shine" — and menorahs do this for all to see.

placeholder
Everything about the Hanukkah menorah is interesting, meaningful and instructive.

First, a brief historical overview. In 167 B.C., King Antiochus IV — the most powerful ruler in the Middle East — conquered Jerusalem. Allied with Jews who had been charmed by Greek ideas and turned against their faith, Antiochus commanded idol worship and the profaning of the Sabbath and feasts. The king also ordered an altar to Zeus erected in the holy Jewish Temple, banned circumcision, and required pigs and other non-kosher animals to be sacrificed on the altar of the Temple.

YAEL ECKSTEIN: HANUKKAH IN THE YEAR OF COVID REMINDS US THAT HOPE AND FAITH ARE STRONGER THAN DESPAIR

A year later, a tiny Jewish force from Modi’in (near Jerusalem) decided to revolt. The stakes could not have been higher.

If this group of Jews had lost their battle — as by every objective analysis they should have — Judaism, Jews and Jewish ideas, along with every other group and system in the Bible, would have been wiped out. This includes the idea of monotheism — which is the root of universal morality, inalienable rights, human equality and the concept that all interpersonal conduct is of the utmost importance.

More from Opinion
Why this Jewish entrepreneur supports Christian missionary doctors in Africa
Rabbi Sam Bregman: Jewish High Holidays during pandemic will be different, but hold timeless message for all
Ambassador Callista Gingrich: US fighting anti-Semitism at home and abroad
The small Jewish group — later known as the Maccabees — achieved a stunning military victory several years later and recaptured and rededicated the Temple. In the process of cleaning the Temple, the Jews found a small amount of oil that was expected to light the Temple for a day. It did so for eight days.

We celebrate the rededication of the Temple on Hanukkah and commemorate it with the eight-candled menorah. We place the menorah on our doorstep or in the window in accordance with the ancient instruction to "advertise the miracle."

placeholder
Two questions immediately arise.

First, why "advertise the miracle?” When we celebrate the miracle of the Exodus from Egypt on Passover, we do so in the privacy of our homes. We eat apples and honey on Rosh Hashana, we wear costumes on Purim, and we light candles to welcome every Shabbat. None of these carry anything like a command to broadly showcase what we are doing.

By "advertising the miracle," we are making several statements simultaneously. We are asserting the pride and joy that we have in being Jewish.

The Greeks were neither the first nor the last people to seek to extinguish Judaism. The result of these attempts? The lights we are lighting, celebrating and sharing tell the story. A miracle — from God's enabling us to breathe to liberating us from Egypt, and the countless others that define and enrich our lives — is something that should be appreciated, understood and shared with others.

Even more fundamentally: What is the miracle? The conventional thinking is that the miracle is that the oil, which was intended to last for one day, lasted for eight. But every Jew had a mother or grandmother who could make a little oil last for a long time.

Extending the use of a vial of oil does not seem on par with the great biblical miracles we celebrate — from God's liberating us from Egypt to giving us the Torah at Mount Sinai. Moreover, the lasting oil was not even mentioned in the early celebrations of Hanukkah.

Another possibility is the celebration of the military victory over the Greeks. However, Jews do not celebrate military victories. The modern state of Israel has had military victories as unlikely and miraculous as those of the Maccabees — and yet there are no celebrations or memorials like those in almost every other country.

placeholder
Israel's founding father David Ben-Gurion said: "Not with stones and trees will we inculcate the memory of the heroes, but with feelings of admiration and pride that will prevail in the heart of the nation together."

So, what is the miracle? There are several possibilities, each of which can be true.

CLICK HERE TO SIGN UP FOR OUR OPINION NEWSLETTER

One miracle is that we are still considering what the miracle is. Almost all ancient events are, of course, long lost to history. The ability to continually derive new truths and profound meaning from this event, in conjunction with fellow seekers from diverse places and different backgrounds, is a miracle —and, as with the acknowledgment of all miracles, a cause for gratitude.

And there is another miracle that would have been just as apparent to the Maccabees.

Imagine if a couple of Maccabees emerged in contemporary New York, Melbourne or Jerusalem. They would surely say: All of the other ancient peoples of the Bible — from the Hittites to the Jebusites to the ancient Egyptians — they are long gone. We kept Judaism going against long odds. But the odds against the survival of Judaism, given all that has happened since, just kept getting longer. For your children, so joyously and confidently, lighting a menorah now —- that is the miracle!

CLICK HERE TO GET THE FOX NEWS APP


And how might we reply to them?  We might tell the Maccabees the story of Hugo Gryn. Gryn was a teenager in Auschwitz when his father took their tiny ration of margarine and used it to make Hanukkah candles. Hugo asked his father why he was doing so, given that they were starving. His father explained: “We have learned that we can live three days without water. We can live three weeks without food. But we cannot live three minutes without hope.”

This lesson from the Maccabees — to always see that the world, with our effort, can be improved no matter what the challenges — has been the source of Jewish hope. It is this lesson we relearn each Hanukkah, teach our children anew as they light each candle and proclaim to all those who see our advertising the miracle.

CLICK HERE FOR MORE FROM MARK GERSON

Mark Gerson is an entrepreneur and philanthropist who (along with wife, Rabbi Erica Gerson) is perhaps the world’s largest individual supporter of Christian medical missions. He is the co-founder of African Mission Healthcare and co-founder and Chair of United Hatzalah of Israel, the crowd-sourced volunteer system of rapid first responders. He is author of a forthcoming book on the Haggadah from St. Martin’s Essentials titled: “The Telling: How Judaism’s Essential Book Reveals the Meaning of Life.” Website: therabbishusband.com Twitter: @markgerson Podcast: “The Rabbi’s Husband”.
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline Dee

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23870
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hannuka and the Maccabes
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2020, 05:13:00 AM »
While I'm ok with freedom of religion as it pertains to our constitution, Judaism and Christianity DO NOT MIX. It is a religion totally apart from Salvation.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Ranger99

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9581
Re: Hannuka and the Maccabes
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2020, 07:02:42 AM »
Semi related-
What's up with the new obsession
with things and practices of the
Hebrew faith and Israel and such?
I hear a lot of Christian preachers
starting in on hannukah and passover
and using Hebrew phrases and such.
Some are not emphasizing Jesus
like I would think they would
18 MINUTES.  . . . . . .

Offline Dee

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23870
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hannuka and the Maccabes
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2020, 07:35:17 AM »
I think it makes them think they look more holy and Biblical. What it actually is, is deception, or ignorance, or both.
Truth is, the Jews are the ones that killed Christ, and rejected His message.

Like I said: Judaism will not line up with Scripture, no matter how hard you twist and torture the Scriptures.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline powderman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32823
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hannuka and the Maccabes
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2020, 02:56:13 PM »
The Jews and gentiles were grafted together thousands of years ago. CHARLIE.  :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline Dee

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23870
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hannuka and the Maccabes
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2020, 05:06:03 PM »
The Jews and gentiles were grafted together thousands of years ago. CHARLIE.  :o :o

So your say Judaism and Christianity DOES mix well together? :o  :o
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline ironglows

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4387
Re: Hannuka and the Maccabes
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2020, 01:19:48 AM »
  "Truth is, the Jews are the ones that killed Christ, and rejected His message."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    May I suggest slightly different picture?  According to scripture, anyone who ever sinned, helped in the killing of Christ. Check the old, well worn "Roman road"..
 
 "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God".  (Rom 3:23)
  "But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.  (Rom 5:eight)

   Ironically, the vine grafted in, is also explained in Romans;

    "11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their [a]fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!

13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and [c]fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.

19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, [d]goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? (Rom 11:11-24)


 Not so much a mix, as a continuing stream...  Old covenant..on into the new covenant...

  Josh drives his family around in a new Ford Transit, his great grandpa drove a Model "T"..
    .....Changes were made..

   I will listen to scriptural correction..but be polite, please...

 
"They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns, then it will be through the bullet"      (Saul Alinsky) ...hero of the left..

Offline ironglows

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4387
"They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns, then it will be through the bullet"      (Saul Alinsky) ...hero of the left..

Offline Dee

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23870
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hannuka and the Maccabes
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2020, 02:56:01 AM »
The Old covenant died on the Cross. The Sandrin , the principle leadership of Judaism ordered Christs' crucifixion, the Roman Pilot offered  an alternative  but the Jews wanted Christ dead.

Simple question: does Judaism mix with Christianity? If you don't know, your as lost as the jew.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline powderman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32823
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hannuka and the Maccabes
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2020, 06:53:19 AM »
IG. Thanks, I hate having to look things up for those who don't know or believe the Bible. CHARLIE.  ::) ::)
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline Dee

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23870
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hannuka and the Maccabes
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2020, 07:00:28 AM »
IG. Thanks, I hate having to look things up for those who don't know or believe the Bible. CHARLIE.  ::) ::)

Ironglow gave a sorta-safe politically correct "non-answer".

So! Same question Charles. Do you believe Judaism blends with Christianity? Or do you just not know?

Instead of trying to play "victim", instead of passing to someone else,  and instead insinuating I'm wrong, and your right.

Put your belief where your sarcasm now is.

Do YOU Charles believe that Judaism blends with New Testament Christianity?

Lets discuss it.
R
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Argent 88

  • GBO DJ
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3768
Re: Hannuka and the Maccabes
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2020, 07:10:11 AM »
That Roman Governor was Pontius Pilatus in Latin. Pontius Pilate in English. A Pilot flies an airplane.

Offline Dee

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23870
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hannuka and the Maccabes
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2020, 07:31:01 AM »
That Roman Governor was Pontius Pilatus in Latin. Pontius Pilate in English. A Pilot flies an airplane.

Well gosh , ya sure got me there. Between you and "spell check" I just can't catch a break.
That spelling issue just changes everything.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Argent 88

  • GBO DJ
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3768
Re: Hannuka and the Maccabes
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2020, 07:42:44 AM »
I wasn't referring to you in general. It's a common misuse of the word, Ive even seen where clergy had spelled it Pilot. Made me wonder if they had actually read those scriptures. Maybe that mouse is pointing at you.

Offline Dee

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23870
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hannuka and the Maccabes
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2020, 08:04:11 AM »
I wasn't referring to you in general. It's a common misuse of the word, Ive even seen where clergy had spelled it Pilot. Made me wonder if they had actually read those scriptures. Maybe that mouse is pointing at you.
.

No its pointing at you. Your famous for trying to play both sides of everything while also being the victim. That's why myself and others mostly ignore you.
Like this time, you point out sumpthin stupid. Like spell check changing the spelling of "Pilate" to pilot, you point it out with  an explanation, in an effort to make you "appear" knowing and smart.

You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Argent 88

  • GBO DJ
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3768
Re: Hannuka and the Maccabes
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2020, 08:52:03 AM »
I never even mentioned your name. Some members have told me why they don't say much to me. And it has to do with you!! And your overwhelming hate of someone who doesn't fawn all over you.

Offline powderman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32823
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hannuka and the Maccabes
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2020, 12:28:43 PM »
Do YOU Charles believe that Judaism blends with New Testament Christianity?

Lets discuss it.
R


YES I do. I believe that God intended that the Jews and Christians live peacefully together, that one would complement the other and visa versa.
Jesus is a Jew, the Christian religion is from his beliefs. There is nothing to discuss, you are always right, rest of us wrong. Fire away. CHARLIE.  :( :(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline Dee

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23870
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hannuka and the Maccabes
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2020, 01:12:17 PM »
Do YOU Charles believe that Judaism blends with New Testament Christianity?

Lets discuss it.
R


YES I do. I believe that God intended that the Jews and Christians live peacefully together, that one would complement the other and visa versa.
Jesus is a Jew, the Christian religion is from his beliefs. There is nothing to discuss, you are always right, rest of us wrong. Fire away. CHARLIE.  :( :(

And "you" while claiming to be Christian, always play the victim, while name calling, and hurling insults.

Now, to the topic.

Christ was indeed born into a religiously leaning Jewish family,  but Judaism is not a race of people. It is a religion.

When Christ came, HE changed everything concerning SALVATION. In the religion of Judaism, one cannot achieve SALVATION before, or after death. In the religion of Judaism, one cannot achieve complete "FORGIVENESS" for sin.

When Christ came, Judaism died in the eyes  of God. The old ways to favor in Gods eyes, died on that Cross.

Christ REPLACED Judaism.

In Judaism, one covers sin through sacrifice, and offerings.

In Christianity, forgiveness for ALL SIN is washed completely away through the sacrifice of Christ on the Cross.

Those practicing Judaism then, and those practicing Judaism now, DENY that Christ came some 2,000+ years ago. They DENY that he gave Salvation on the Cross.
They denied then that Christ was who He said he was, and they deny it now.
It is "COMMON KNOWLEDGE" to anyone seriously studying Gods' Word, that those folks some 2,000 years ago MISSED THE FIRST COMING OF CHRIST.
So Judaism "is" blasphemous to The Gospel of Christ.
IT DOES NOT BLEND, IT DILUTES.
IT DOESN'T NOT ENHANCE, IT DIMINISHES.

IT IS NOT THE PATH TO SALVATION, IT IS A DETERRENT.

Do I believe we should support Israel?

It is the ONLY Democratic style government in the middle east. SO YES!

But to practice Judaism, or try mixing it with Christianity, is as dangerous for the mixer, and those listening to the mixer, is just as dangerous as mixing Christianity with Mormonism, JWs, Catholicism, or Islam.

Christ says: NO MAN comes unto the Father except by Me.

He also STRONGLY WARNS, not to add, or take away, ANYTHING concerning Gods Word. That includes mixing in Judaism.  ;)  8)
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Argent 88

  • GBO DJ
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3768
Re: Hannuka and the Maccabes
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2020, 01:24:32 PM »
Dee turns on his allies. The first time they ever disagree with him. 

Offline Dee

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23870
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hannuka and the Maccabes
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2020, 01:30:18 PM »
Dee turns on his allies. Then first time they disagree with him.

I don't have any allies, their just in agreement concerning you. Are you gonna keep following me are barkin, until I have to complain to your owner?
Good grief your a whiner.  ::)
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Argent 88

  • GBO DJ
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3768
Re: Hannuka and the Maccabes
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2020, 01:33:41 PM »
Exactly. Go tell Bill. You are ate up with yourself.

Offline powderman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32823
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hannuka and the Maccabes
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2020, 02:58:19 PM »
Dee I never realized your hatred for Israel and Jews went so deep. They were, are, always will be God's chosen ones. They are surrounded by millions of godless muslims who want them dead, yet they thrive and survive. GOD is still blessing them. Forever means just that, forever. CHARLIE.  ::) ::)
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline Dee

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23870
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hannuka and the Maccabes
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2020, 03:12:32 PM »
Dee I never realized your hatred for Israel and Jews went so deep. They were, are, always will be God's chosen ones. They are surrounded by millions of godless muslims who want them dead, yet they thrive and survive. GOD is still blessing them. Forever means just that, forever. CHARLIE.  ::) ::)

I have no idea where you came up with the idea that I hated Israel, and the Jews.
That has got to be one of the most outlandish, and ridiculous statements you've made on this site to date. And that saying something for you.

This conversation was about the religion of Judaism vs Christianity. It was about what the Jewish Sanhidrin did to Christ to hold on to their power, by killing Him.
It was about the FACT that Judaism, and the Jews don't believe the Messiah has came the 1st time.
They are in denial of The Triune. In the world of Judaism they deny Christ.

Your either totally ignorant of Biblical history,  or your just making crap up trying to get at me, because you don't like me (which I'm okay with), and how same to have the audacity to question you on Judaism. 
Being over your head on a subject is one thing,  but to make up ridiculous accusations is another.  :o ::)
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Graybeard

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (69)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26945
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hannuka and the Maccabes
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2020, 04:30:47 PM »
OK all time to remind you again. Stay on topic, stop attacking each other. No name calling, no personal attacks. Just discuss and state opinions on the topic of the post.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline ironglows

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4387
Re: Hannuka and the Maccabes
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2020, 04:33:29 PM »
Clearly, if the Jews continue with their law only, they are in danger of missing out on salvation. ...But of course, the Messianic movement, whose  doctrine includes Jesus Christ in all his attributes, is gaining strength  and growing in Israel, which effectively makes them Christians, even though they are ethnically Jews.
  The term "Jew", is not just a religion, it is also an ethnic descriptor. Even if a Jew turns his back on the faith and becomes an atheist, he/she is still a Jew.

  No matter, whether one be an American, Jew, Canadian or Lithuanian, he must accept Jesus for who he is and what He stands for..   Elsewise, he is in serious trouble where salvation is concerned.

  As far as Jesus death on the cross, Pilate was primarily ambivalent about it, but would rather the the Pharisees and Sadducees had chosen Barabbas, and were all condemning Jesus.... but it was the Roman troops who crucified Him.
   However, there is still the undeniable truth, that if people never sinned, there would have been no need for Jesus' sacrifice..
   
He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.  (1 Peter 2;24)

  Therefore anybody who ever sinned, contributed to Jesus' death on the cross....and that includes each one of us..

  I don't know anyone who thinks Judaism is Christianity, any more than i know anybody who believes that today's Army, is exactly like George Washington's Army of 1776.
  ..No real comparison, but even though there are many, many changes, today's US Army is descended from that of 1776 !
"They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns, then it will be through the bullet"      (Saul Alinsky) ...hero of the left..

Offline Dee

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23870
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hannuka and the Maccabes
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2020, 05:18:23 PM »
If one converts from Judaism to Christianity, one may have family, and friends that practice Judaism, but once converted, the converted is Christian, and no longer Jewish in faith.
A Chinese monk can convert to Judaism and be a jew, but his ethnicity has not changed. He's a jew defined by his religious practices.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline ironglows

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4387
Re: Hannuka and the Maccabes
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2020, 01:06:49 AM »
  Yes, Messianic Jews are Christians, even though they are referred to ethnically, as Jews.
  What else would one call them?  I guess we could call them Israelites..but it seems that would only apply to those who live, or were born in Israel.

   I don't agree with Christian groups who try to adopt Old testament customs and practices.  That however is not to say that the law, such as the 10 commandments have no bearing upon us. 
  Of those two positions, one would seem to be allowing Judaizers to influence to the church, while the second would be crossing over into the error of the antinomians.
"They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns, then it will be through the bullet"      (Saul Alinsky) ...hero of the left..

Offline Fixit

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 65
Re: Hannuka and the Maccabes
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2020, 08:30:27 AM »
Having read and studied the Bible for most of my life, I would say that it is worth looking into the practices of judaism, partly for understanding and partly for appreciation. Judaism is unaware of the presence of Jesus and the Holy Spirit in their scripture, which is our old testament. They are largely locked in a ritualistic pattern, much like catholicism, and many are deeply religious about it, while others are entirely non religious and go for the purpose of community. While I would not say our groups are unite-able, there is no reason to be in opposition to one another. They are, at the end of the day, people who need the Savior, and we are called to reach out to them, just as any other person.
chicken little has finally found an audience

Offline Dee

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23870
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hannuka and the Maccabes
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2020, 08:38:17 AM »
Having read and studied the Bible for most of my life, I would say that it is worth looking into the practices of judaism, partly for understanding and partly for appreciation. Judaism is unaware of the presence of Jesus and the Holy Spirit in their scripture, which is our old testament. They are largely locked in a ritualistic pattern, much like catholicism, and many are deeply religious about it, while others are entirely non religious and go for the purpose of community. While I would not say our groups are unite-able, there is no reason to be in opposition to one another. They are, at the end of the day, people who need the Savior, and we are called to reach out to them, just as any other person.

Agreed!
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline ironglows

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4387
Re: Hannuka and the Maccabes
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2020, 10:35:23 AM »
The only reason most Jews were unaware of the historical Jesus, is because either they didn't study for themselves, or they allowed the rabbis to blind them.
  Jesus was introduced to them in their own scriptures., especially in (Isaiah 52 &53).
 
    The Messianic movement started primarily, because some Jews decided to study Isaiah 53, which they have been forbidden to do.

  Other examples;  The messiah would teach in parables (Psalm 78:1,2)
  ...But the parables would fall upon deaf ears. (Isaiah 6:9,10)

     The Messiah would be born in Bethlehem.  (Micah 5:2)

  The Messiah would have  somebody to announce His arrival.  (Isaiah 40:3,4)
  ..And that is how John announced Him to the world !

  Jews are now converting to Christianity in greater number than perhaps at any time in history.  That causes one to ponder whether this is the kick off to the beginning of end times events
  Scripture says Jews will be saved  then..  (Romans 11:25,26)
"They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns, then it will be through the bullet"      (Saul Alinsky) ...hero of the left..