Author Topic: Scientists find evidence Stonehenge might have been built in Wales then moved  (Read 2088 times)

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Offline Graybeard

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https://www.foxnews.com/science/scientists-evidence-stonehenge-build-wales-moved-england

Researchers have linked Stonehenge stones to an even older site

By Julia Musto | Fox News

British archaeologists believe they have pinpointed the origins of the 5,000-year-old prehistoric Stonehenge ruin.

A team of scientists, led by University College London's Mike Parker Pearson, reported in the journal Antiquity on Friday that they had unearthed a stone circle in Wales' Preseli Hills that they believe had been dismantled and moved 175 miles to Salisbury Plain and reconfigured as Stonehenge.


The "Waun Mawn" site -- previously disregarded over the years -- was found to have just four large bluestones left arranged in an arc. Pearson and his researchers uncovered evidence of an additional six holes that originally held a stone in 2018, giving rise to the theory that people had taken them as they migrated.

Upon measuring the diameter of the circular ditch at Waun Mawn, the group found that the ditches surrounding both sites shared identical diameters of about 360 feet across.


Waun Mawn -- which appears to be Britain's third-largest stone circle -- and Stonehenge are the only two Neolithic monuments in Britain that conform to those specifications and examination of charcoal and sediment inside the holes suggested that Waun Mawn's creation could be traced back to about 3,400 B.C.

In addition, the dimensions of the 43 bluestones at Stonehenge -- many of which are buried -- match the dimensions of the four at Waun Mawn and are the same type of rock as three of them.

One of the Stonehenge bluestones also has a cross-section that matches one of the gaps at Waun Mawn.

To further prove their connection, Pearson found that the entrance to both circles was aligned toward the midsummer solstice sunrise -- though, the circle's intended purpose remains shrouded in mystery.

Stonehenge was constructed in phases starting at around 3,000 B.C.

The Wiltshire county monument was built using both bluestones and newer and larger sarsen sandstones.


Previous research over the last few decades showed that while the sarsen stones were brought from just 15 miles away in Marlborough, the bluestone pillars had been extracted from the Preseli Hills.

In 2019, Pearson and his team provided evidence of the locations of two of the bluestone quarries, prompting them to look over Waun Mawn again.

Scientific analysis of human remains at Stonehenge indicated that some of them could have come from Wales, and further excavations are planned to try to understand more.


Pearson hypothesized both that Stonehenge was made to commemorate the ancestors of those who built it and that Stonehenge's first stage may have served to unite the people of southern Britain.

"Maybe most of the people migrated, taking their stones – their ancestral identities – with them, to start again in this other special place," he said in a news release. "This extraordinary event may also have served to unite the peoples of east and west Britain."

Julia Musto is a reporter for Fox News Digital. You can find her on Twitter at @JuliaElenaMusto.


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Offline Argent 88

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But of course the ancient aliens built it, you don't belive me just watch the History channel lol.  ::)

Offline ironglows

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   I doubt Fed-Ex did the moving job!
"They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns, then it will be through the bullet"      (Saul Alinsky) ...hero of the left..

Offline BUGEYE

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I showed this article to my wife who has been there and she called it BS.

I think some people just dream up stuff to justify their job.
Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     Patrick Henry

Give me liberty, or give me death
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Offline Ranger99

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I showed this article to my wife who has been there and she called it BS.

I think some people just dream up stuff to justify their job.
^ ^ ^ this
18 MINUTES.  . . . . . .

Offline Ranger99

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Other than a historical aspect,
I can't see the fascination with an
ancient pagan religious artifact.

21st century people sho do be
luvin theys debble worshipin
18 MINUTES.  . . . . . .

Offline ironglows

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  True or not?  I don't know, but I do know there is a body of iconoclasts in every science, who are often going out on a hypothetical limb, trying to disprove accepted science...and try to gain fame in that way.

   Nothing wrong with continuing to research, because science should not stand still and stagnate, but some are determined to make a name for themselves at the cost of real research.
"They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns, then it will be through the bullet"      (Saul Alinsky) ...hero of the left..

Offline darkgael

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This is old news.
There are two types of stones at Stonehenge. The smaller bluestones were quarried in the Preseli Hills in Wales.
The larger Sarsen stones were quarried in or near the Marlborough Downs, some km north of Stonehenge.
This was proved conclusively in 2020 by geochemical analysis and comparison to other stones from other sites.

Debble worship? No. Pagan, yes. Stonehenge was constructed over a span of st least 1500 years and that was 1500 years before Christianity. Thirty centuries before Christ, Celts were wordhipping the oldest of pagan gods...the Sun.


About research....the quest for knowledge follows many paths. The more we know about something, the more we know about everything.
P

Offline Dee

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LOL, nobody knows who built them, cause nobody saw whom, or when they were built.
They could have been part of the pier and beam structure, for Fred and Wilma's condo.
I like folks who study stuff like this when they come up with these when, wheres, and why's.
Then I know I'm not the dumbest guy on the planet.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline ironglows

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LOL, nobody knows who built them, cause nobody saw whom, or when they were built.
They could have been part of the pier and beam structure, for Fred and Wilma's condo.
I like folks who study stuff like this when they come up with these when, wheres, and why's.
Then I know I'm not the dumbest guy on the planet.

  LOL..I like that!  ..A good sense of humor.. :D ;D     ...Curiously, when I was in grade school, I can recall when we were taught that there is no clear evidence where man originated, that is, in the secular view.
  Then there were all the "discoveries"..  Piltdown man, Java man and Nebraska man..which were each in their turn, hailed by some as the "original"..  And each in their turn, proven fraudulent.  There were other "discoveries' as well.

  In recent years, a fragment or two of ancient bones or an ossified bone was found in the Olduvai Gorge in Africa.  Many have jumped on that train, and declared it as the "first"...

  Who knows, somebody may find a hiney bone in Manchuria, and they will all run off to Manchuria, claiming a "first"! 
 
   Sometimes it seems, that it takes more faith to believe these stories than the Bible stories !
"They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns, then it will be through the bullet"      (Saul Alinsky) ...hero of the left..

Offline Dee

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I'm gonna stick with the Bible. The stuff they occasionally dig up, just futher  proves the Bible is vetted in truth.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline BUGEYE

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I'm gonna stick with the Bible. The stuff they occasionally dig up, just futher  proves the Bible is vetted in truth.
Yep, Powderman occasionally posts finds in the Holy lands that just keeps on proving the truths in the Bible.
Give me liberty, or give me death
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Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     bugeye

Online JustaShooter

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This is old news.
There are two types of stones at Stonehenge. The smaller bluestones were quarried in the Preseli Hills in Wales.
The larger Sarsen stones were quarried in or near the Marlborough Downs, some km north of Stonehenge.
This was proved conclusively in 2020 by geochemical analysis and comparison to other stones from other sites.
You are correct that the above had already been determined, what the new research showed was that the bluestones were a part of an earlier stone circle in another location before being moved to their current location at Stonehenge.

Debble worship? No. Pagan, yes.
Potāto, potăto.

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Offline ironglows

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I'm gonna stick with the Bible. The stuff they occasionally dig up, just futher  proves the Bible is vetted in truth.
Yep, Powderman occasionally posts finds in the Holy lands that just keeps on proving the truths in the Bible.

  I'm with you and Dee on this one!  Below, enjoy one of my favorite poems..for a couple obvious reasons.

      The Anvil of God's Word
“Last eve I paused beside the blacksmith’s door,
And heard the anvil ring the vesper chime;
Then looking in, I saw upon the floor,
Old hammers, worn with beating years of time.

“‘How many anvils have you had,’ said I,
‘To wear and batter all these hammers so?’
‘Just one,’ said he, and then with twinkling eye,
‘The anvil wears the hammers out, you know.’

“And so, I thought, the Anvil of God’s Word
For ages skeptic blows have beat upon;
Yet, though the noise of falling blows was heard,
The Anvil is unharmed, the hammers gone.”

—attributed to John Clifford
"They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns, then it will be through the bullet"      (Saul Alinsky) ...hero of the left..

Offline darkgael

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LOL, nobody knows who built them, cause nobody saw whom, or when they were built.
They could have been part of the pier and beam structure, for Fred and Wilma's condo.
I like folks who study stuff like this when they come up with these when, wheres, and why's.
Then I know I'm not the dumbest guy on the planet.

  LOL..I like that!  ..A good sense of humor.. :D ;D     ...Curiously, when I was in grade school, I can recall when we were taught that there is no clear evidence where man originated, that is, in the secular view.
  Then there were all the "discoveries"..  Piltdown man, Java man and Nebraska man..which were each in their turn, hailed by some as the "original"..  And each in their turn, proven fraudulent.  There were other "discoveries' as well.

  In recent years, a fragment or two of ancient bones or an ossified bone was found in the Olduvai Gorge in Africa.  Many have jumped on that train, and declared it as the "first"...

  Who knows, somebody may find a hiney bone in Manchuria, and they will all run off to Manchuria, claiming a "first"! 
 
   Sometimes it seems, that it takes more faith to believe these stories than the Bible stories !
Piltdown man was a hoax.
Nebraska man may have been a hoax or a misidentification.
Java Man - homo erectus erectus - remains a legitimate discovery.

“Recent” years at Olduvai Gorge......well, kinda depends on what you mean by recent. Louis and Mary Leakey worked st the gorge in 1959. The initial work turned up Zinjanthropus Bosei. Their discovery of Homo Habilis was in 1960.
None of these things contradict Scripture.

Offline darkgael

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Quote
Debble worship? No. Pagan, yes.
Potāto, potăto.

Are we to understand that you equate “pagan” worship as devil worship? I hope not because that would be wrong.

Offline Dee

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Quote
Debble worship? No. Pagan, yes.
Potāto, potăto.

Are we to understand that you equate “pagan” worship as devil worship? I hope not because that would be wrong.

Actually it wouldn't be wrong. Pagan worship would be "false gods" or "things" which would be inspired, and misdirected by satan.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline darkgael

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Debble worship? No. Pagan, yes.
Potāto, potăto.

Are we to understand that you equate “pagan” worship as devil worship? I hope not because that would be wrong.

Actually it wouldn't be wrong. Pagan worship would be "false gods" or "things" which would be inspired, and misdirected by satan.
Could be, not would be.
Pagan worship: the Greeks, the Romans, the Norse, the Celts, the American indian.....to name a few. There is no indication in any of them of inspiration or misdirection by Satan.
All of these pagan religions predate Christianity and the use of Satan in Judeo-Christian Scripture as the embodiment of evil.

Offline Dee

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Well, you either worship God, or "something else". "Something else" isn't the one true God. So I guess you can call "something else" anything you want.
All those "former worshipers" of "something else" have been dead for many years so it really doesn't matter anymore. Except maybe to them.
God will "sort them out".
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline ironglows

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From DG;
  "Piltdown man was a hoax.
Nebraska man may have been a hoax or a misidentification.
Java Man - homo erectus erectus - remains a legitimate discovery.

“Recent” years at Olduvai Gorge......well, kinda depends on what you mean by recent. Louis and Mary Leakey worked st the gorge in 1959. The initial work turned up Zinjanthropus Bosei. Their discovery of Homo Habilis was in 1960.
None of these things contradict Scripture"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
  I understand Java Man was lost or destroyed during WW2, so it may be hard to prove one way or the other. Often, what was true 60 years ago, may be found completely untrue today..or it may be reinforced.
  I call Leakey's discoveries as "recent" as compared to Darwin and his "discoveries"..which were merely adaptations.
  My objections were aimed at each "discovery' and each discoverer, calling it the final answer!
  i think they would be more honest if they distinctly referred to such as the oldest so far.

  Recommend on Youtube  ... Dr Stephen Meyer and  Dr James Tour!  ..  Dr David Berlinsky is good also.
"They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns, then it will be through the bullet"      (Saul Alinsky) ...hero of the left..

Offline darkgael

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Well, you either worship God, or "something else". "Something else" isn't the one true God. So I guess you can call "something else" anything you want.
All those "former worshipers" of "something else" have been dead for many years so it really doesn't matter anymore. Except maybe to them.
God will "sort them out".
All of that may be so but not really what I was commenting about. I was reacting to the implication that “something else” is necessarily the “debble”.

Offline darkgael

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“ Recommend on Youtube  ... Dr Stephen Meyer and  Dr James Tour!  ..  Dr David Berlinsky is good also.”
You or someone else has recommended them to me at another time. They are all brilliant men in their own ways, though none is a paleontologist.
Their names are frequently associated with “intelligent design/creationism though neither Berlinsky or Tour espouse that school of thought.  In any case, I do not know quite why you referenced them in the context of this thread.

Offline Dee

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Quote from: Dee 9mmlink=topic=288768.msg1099764889#msg1099764889 date=1613741051
Well, you either worship God, or "something else". "Something else" isn't the one true God. So I guess you can call "something else" anything you want.
All those "former worshipers" of "something else" have been dead for many years so it really doesn't matter anymore. Except maybe to them.
God will "sort them out".
All of that may be so but not really what I was commenting about. I was reacting to the implication that “something else” is necessarily the “debble”.

Well, if your worshiping "something else ", other than God,  it is "of the Devil".
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline darkgael

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Well, if your worshiping "something else ", other than God,  it is "of the Devil".

Quite a leap of logic there.

Offline Argent 88

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Clovis man was real. Inspired the Clovis point. A strange Speer point from any other found.  First found near Clovis NM.
 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clovis_point.

Clovis points are the characteristically-fluted projectile points associated with the New World Clovis culture. They are present in dense concentrations across much of North America; in South America, they are largely restricted to the north of that continent. Clovis points date to the Early Paleoindian period, with all known points dating to the 600 years between roughly 13,500 to 12,800 calendar years ago. Clovis fluted points are named after the city of Clovis, New Mexico, where examples were first found in 1929 by Ridgely Whiteman.[1]

A Clovis projectile point created using bifacial percussion flaking (that is, each face is flaked on both edges alternatively with a percussor)
Image courtesy of the Virginia Dept. of Historic Resources.
A typical Clovis point is a medium to large lanceolate point. Sides are parallel to convex, and exhibit careful pressure flaking along the blade edge. The broadest area is near the midsection or toward the base. The base is distinctly concave with a characteristic flute or channel flake removed from one or, more commonly, both surfaces of the blade. The lower edges of the blade and base are ground to dull edges for hafting. Clovis points also tend to be thicker than the typically thin later-stage Folsom points. with length ranging from 4 to 20 centimetres (1.6 to 7.9 in) and width from 2.5 to 5 centimetres (0.98 to 1.97 in). Whether the points were knife blades or spear points is an open question.

Clovis points from the Rummells-Maske Cache Site, Iowa
Clovis points are thin, fluted projectile points created using bifacial percussion flaking (that is, each face is flaked on both edges alternatively with a percussor).[2] To finish shaping and sharpening the points, they are sometimes pressure flaked along the outer edges.

Clovis points are characterized by concave longitudinal shallow grooves called "flutes" on both faces one third or more up from the base to the pointed tip. The grooves may have permitted the points to be fastened (hafted) to wooden spears, dart shafts or foreshafts (of wood, bone, etc.) that would have been socketed onto the tip end of a spear or dart. Clovis points could also have been hafted as knives whose handles also served as removable foreshafts of a spear or dart. (This hypothesis is partly based on analogy with aboriginal harpoons that had tethered foreshafts Cotter 1937). There are numerous examples of post-Clovis era points that were hafted to foreshafts, but there is no direct evidence that Clovis people used this type of technological system.

Specimens are known to have been made of flint, chert, jasper, chalcedony and other stone of conchoidal fracture. Ivory and bone atlatl hooks of Clovis age have been archaeologically recovered. Known bone and ivory tools associated with Clovis archaeological deposits are not considered effective foreshafts for projectile weapons. The idea of Clovis foreshafts is commonly repeated in the technical literature despite the paucity of archaeological evidence. The assembled multiple piece spear or dart could have been thrown by hand or with the aid of an atlatl (spear thrower).

Whether Clovis toolmaking technology was native to the Americas or originated through influences from elsewhere is a contentious issue among archaeologists. Lithic antecedents of Clovis points have not been found in northeast Asia, from where the first human inhabitants of the Americas are believed by the majority of archaeologists to have originated. Strong similarities with points produced by the Solutrean culture in the Iberian peninsula of Europe have been noted, leading to the controversial Solutrean hypothesis, which states that the technology was introduced by hunters traversing the Atlantic ice-shelf and suggests that some of the first American humans were European.

Around 10,000 radio carbon years before present, a new type of fluted projectile point called Folsom appeared in archaeological deposits, and Clovis-style points disappeared from the continental United States. Most Folsom points are shorter in length than Clovis points and exhibit different fluting and pressure flaking patterns. This is particularly easy to see when comparing the unfinished preforms of Clovis and Folsom points.

Besides its function as a tool, Clovis technology may well have been the lithic symbol of a highly mobile culture that exploited a wide range of faunal resources during the Late Pleistocene and early Holocene. As Clovis technology expanded, its very use may have affected resource availability, being a possible contributor to the extinction of the megafauna.

There are different opinions about the emergence of Clovis points. One is that pre-Clovis people in the New World developed the Clovis tradition independently. Another opinion is that Upper Paleolithic peoples who, after migrating into North America from northeast Asia, reverted to inherited Clovis-style flaked-stone technology that had been in use prior to their entry into the Americas.

Clovis points were first discovered near the city of Clovis, New Mexico, and have since been found over most of North America[3] and as far south as Venezuela. Significant Clovis finds include the Anzick site in Montana; the Blackwater Draw type site in New Mexico; the Colby site in Wyoming; the Gault site in Texas; the Simon site in Idaho; the East Wenatchee Clovis Site in Washington; and the Fenn cache, which came to light in private hands in 1989 and whose place of discovery is unknown. Clovis points have been found northwest of Dallas, Texas.[4]

Clovis points, along with other stone and bone/ivory tools, have been identified in over two dozen artifact caches.[5] These caches range from the Mississippi River to the Rocky Mountains and Northwest United States. While the Anzick cache is associated with a child burial, the majority of caches appear to represent anticipatory material storage at strategic locations on the Pleistocene landscape.[6] In May 2008, a major Clovis cache, now called the Mahaffey Cache, was found in Boulder, Colorado, with 83 Clovis stone tools. The tools were found to have traces of horse and cameloid protein. They were dated to 13,000 to 13,500 YBP, a date confirmed by sediment layers in which the tools were found and the types of protein residues found on the artifacts.[7]

A fluted obsidian point from a site near Rancho San Joaquin, Baja California Sur was found in a private collection in 1993.[8] The point was surface-collected several years earlier from an alluvial terrace approximately 14 km to the south of San Ignacio.






Offline Ranger99

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Well, if your worshiping "something else ", other than God,  it is "of the Devil".

Quite a leap of logic there.

Not really.  No gray areas there like
many like to think there are
18 MINUTES.  . . . . . .

Offline darkgael

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Well, if your worshiping "something else ", other than God,  it is "of the Devil".

Quite a leap of logic there.

Not really.  No gray areas there like
many like to think there are
To extrapolate a bit: is it then true that all pre-Christian religions were “of  the devil”. Where does that leave all of those pagans who lived and died before Christ? Even today, Hinduism comes to mind, there are cultures whose spiritual needs are met without belief in Christianity,

Offline Dee

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Your question is th the standard question that has been asked since the beginning of time.
Everybody at some point has been given the truth, or has had the opportunity to seek it out.
They have either excepted it, rejected it, altered it, modified it, or ignored it.
Christian's are bound by God to deliver the gospel to the lost, or u saved. Once that is done the lost or unsaved have the knowledge of Salvation thru Christ to save themselves through Christ .
The losts' blood is now off the Christians' hands, and is on the hands of the lost.

All these other religions of the past, present, and future are the mysteries known only to God as to their fate.
I follow His Word, and he will pass or fail the others.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline darkgael

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I appreciate your position on this set of ideas. I do take exception to this idea, though:
“ Everybody at some point has been given the truth, or has had the opportunity to seek it out.”
I am pretty sure that is not so. There are cultures, even today, that have never been exposed to Christianity. Certainly those who lived BC were not. I understand, or think that I do, that much depends on what you mean as “the truth”.

Offline Dee

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God tells not to worry, or concern ourselves with  endless tales, or fables, or surmizings, but instead, focus on leading the lost to Salvation if they'll follow, and to focus on our Salvation.
I you want to ponder the unanswerable, by all means continue.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett