Author Topic: Ultimate Firearms Hoax or Fact? (Read 1582 times)

RandyWakeman · « **on:** March 03, 2004, 06:18:27 PM »

The 300 gr. bullet @ 2300 fps via four pellets is somewhat plausible-- IF "that" is the claim. 2900 fps is not. What is really claimed?

Max load is 4 pellets, yet 5 pellet velocities are sometimes quoted. For what?

Many "rave reviews" are mentioned-- where are they? I've never read a single independent review. Has anybody?

Mentioned elsewhere, the action is stated to be tested to 100,000 PSI. Like where? How? If true, why is this gun not smokeless rated?

Questions linger, and it seems Ultimate Firearms themselves has no interest in clearing up the issue. Mentioned elsewhere, Toby Bridges was never sent a test gun, nor was one offered to be sent to him. Same here, same apparently everywhere.

Don't know-- but, it seems that if Ultimate Firearms was anywhere near the "Ultimate": they just might be able to have an accurate specification sheet on their few web pages that answer more questions than evoke them? :roll:

DEPUTY · « **Reply #1 on:** March 03, 2004, 06:47:14 PM »

actually 2350fps with a 300sst is my readings 4 pellets pyro

woodseye · « **Reply #2 on:** March 04, 2004, 12:30:00 AM »

They don't post up specs cause they can't support their claims. The Savage is way past these guys as any smokeless shooter will be. Guys over on the Savage board are pushing 300gr bullets faster than any ultimate will ever see with pyrodex.

The Howa action isn't any stronger than other bolt action designs. All hype with few facts in order to sell their over priced guns.

Lets see some chrono numbers and factual reports instead of company add-copy. In fact lets see some head to head comparisons with a Savage and an ultimate.

Can you say hype and fiction? I thought you could........

woods

Wolfhound · « **Reply #3 on:** March 04, 2004, 01:19:30 AM »

Quote from: RandyWakeman

Many "rave reviews" are mentioned-- where are they? I've never read a single independent review. Has anybody?

Questions linger, and it seems Ultimate Firearms themselves has no interest in clearing up the issue. Mentioned elsewhere, Toby Bridges was never sent a test gun, nor was one offered to be sent to him. Same here, same apparently everywhere.

These are the two biggest things in my mind. I don't trust any companies ad copy or info off of their website. Quite frankly more often then not it's BS. If I can't find an independant review of something then I don't belive the claims. It's just that simple. Also, I don't see what performance adantage shooting their max loads have. I mean how much power does it take to kill a whitetail? Round balls have been doing it forever and even by todays standards they are underpowered, yet still account for a number of deer every year. Personally as far as I'm concerned the Ultimate Firearms rifle is anything but. The ultimate firearm doesn't exist and never will. It's all a matter of perspective and at $1000+ a pop not one I care to pay to have. My cheaper 2-5 hundred dollar muzzleloaders kill deer just fine. And that is all that matters.

Busta · « **Reply #4 on:** March 04, 2004, 05:03:49 AM »

How long you going to beat that horse, Randy? :roll:

Why don't you get one and do the independant test for yourself, do you think all these doubting Thomas' will believe you? I have seen it, so you don't have anything to prove to me!

Afraid of the recoil or the price? I wouldn't want one, but I have seen what it can do. I bet everybody that says it can't, hasn't even seen one, let alone handled one or seen one shot. The 200 grain (loose) charge has always been the case, the 5 pellet load was added later. This gun has been around for about 10 years in one form or another.

Why don't you get ahold of Randy Johnson, maybe he will send you a demo? Why don't you contact Rob Trott of "Great Lakes Outdoors TV" or Greg Abbas of "A-Way Outdoors", they might be able to tell you why they shoot them?

I think the reason people doubt the claims, is they don't want to spend the money (and I don't blame them), so it is easier to say something negative without ever even seeing one. :roll:

I am in no way saying that this gun is the best thing out there, but I have seen it do what they claim!

DEPUTY · « **Reply #5 on:** March 04, 2004, 06:38:15 AM »

woodseye, again smokeless vs pryo two different animals and i can use mine during the bp hunting without a ticket! but then again i like the way shoots and feels for me. but then again this wont die. i kind of enjoy it but then again there record of animal's killed at some wow distances is quite impressive! i have to say! i kind of like it how defensive the savage copy gun crowd is

kidding of a course! i love this

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #6 on:** March 04, 2004, 08:02:56 AM »

Quote from: Busta'yote

I am in no way saying that this gun is the best thing out there, but I have seen it do what they claim!

What DO they claim?

woodseye · « **Reply #7 on:** March 04, 2004, 01:21:23 PM »

I can use smokeless during our ML'er season and stay within the law. Yes they are a different animal and the smokeless gun will outpreform the BP gun simply put. Post up your numbers and lets see this performance edge that don't seem to exist. Yes I like it too, it debunks these myths that exist about this super gun. They say 2900fps with 250gr of pyrodex and I say lets see the proof.

woods

Busta · « **Reply #8 on:** March 04, 2004, 03:55:37 PM »

Randy,

2900 fps that's what, 3100+ for a 180 grainer! :eek:

Woodseye,

Get a clue, would ya! :roll:

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #9 on:** March 04, 2004, 05:10:48 PM »

Quote from: Busta'yote

Randy,

2900 fps that's what, 3100+ for a 180 grainer!

Of course I've spoken to Randy Johnson; the maximum load is 4 Pyrodex pellets according to him. On camera, Randy Johnson says "about 2300 fps with a 300 grain or so bullet." Deputy says 2350 fps with his. There it is, 2300 - 2350 fps from both Ultimate Firearms and one of the end-users. Thompson Encore 3 pellet book loads crack 2200 fps with three pellets, a bit more for the Omega. So far, so what?

It is a fine-looking rifle, though.

DEPUTY · « **Reply #10 on:** March 04, 2004, 07:13:13 PM »

I HAVE SEEN THE 5 PELLET LOADS BUST SOME AWESOME NUMBERS. AND DOWNRANGE ACCURACY DOES SUFFER A BIT, STILL ENOUGH FOR GAME KILLING AT 400YDS + BUT IS A FINE LOOKING RIFLE! AND IT DOES SHOOT LIKE A CHAMP

woodseye · « **Reply #11 on:** March 05, 2004, 12:14:28 AM »

Quote

Woodseye,

Get a clue, would ya!

Busta.........I did, got a Savage for $500 and it costs less to shoot - kicks less - weighs less - will easy do 2400fps with a 300gr bullet and over 3000fps with a 200gr. - is easier to maintain - stronger (129,000/125,000) - easier to clean - and will shoot sub MOA with loads in the 2400fps range. Whats the ultimate do so much better besides cost a lot more? Oh, thats right its a beautiful gun..........OK my gun is uglier :wink:

Busta..........least you won the looks contest........but looks never killed a big buck for me in these parts.

woods

Busta · « **Reply #12 on:** March 05, 2004, 06:21:57 AM »

Well I am talking the 5 pellet loads. I have seen it. If your Savages are a stronger rifle then they ought to handle the 5 pellet loading even better, so you don't even have to buy one of those good looking (expensive) guns to find out. I'll leave it at that, kinda hard to argue with someone that has never even seen one fired through the Chrony, but knows exactly what he is talking about. Again, I HAVE SEEN IT! 5 pellets, got the nads, Savage boys? I didn't think so! Stay on the porch!

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #13 on:** March 05, 2004, 06:31:10 AM »

Quote from: Busta'yote

5 pellets, got the nads, Savage boys? I didn't think so! Stay on the porch!

Glad you are being entertained. The max. load is 4 pellets according to Ultimate Firearms-- if it is something else, then they are the ones that need to change it. "Nads" has nothing to do with intelligent, accurate load development. If you think otherwise, then you just aren't thinking too terribly deeply.

wpayne · « **Reply #14 on:** March 05, 2004, 07:25:20 AM »

Quote from: Busta'yote

Well I am talking the 5 pellet loads. I have seen it. If your Savages are a stronger rifle then they ought to handle the 5 pellet loading even better, so you don't even have to buy one of those good looking (expensive) guns to find out. I'll leave it at that, kinda hard to argue with someone that has never even seen one fired through the Chrony, but knows exactly what he is talking about. Again, I HAVE SEEN IT! 5 pellets, got the nads, Savage boys? I didn't think so! Stay on the porch!

Didn't Toby at hpmuzzleloading.com do just that?

? If I remember right muzzle velocities started going down with anything over 180 grains of powder.....

Walker · « **Reply #15 on:** March 05, 2004, 07:48:13 AM »

300gr. bullet at 2900fps. Wow, according to my Hornady manual those numbers are better than a 458 Winchester Magnum and a 460 Weatherby Magnum. If they made that gun in a double it would sweep Africa like a swarm of locusts.

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #16 on:** March 09, 2004, 04:19:05 AM »

Quote from: Busta'yote

Afraid of the recoil or the price? I wouldn't want one, but I have seen what it can do.

Which is it for you? There is little reason to get really excited about any gun that "you wouldn't want."

I'll vote "HOAX" based on reports from other end-users who have tried it, and-- I owe Simon Kenton an apology.