Chain fire incidents

[unspellable]

How many of you have experienced a chain fire?  Is this more or less of a problem than it was in the 19th Century?  Does the revolver design make a difference?  How about loading technique?  Does it usually jump from nipple to nipple or chamber mouth to chamber mouth?

What’s the overall consensus?

Years ago I had a chain fire with a buddy’s replica something or other, loaded with grease over the balls.

In more recent times I have acquired a Ruger Old Army and have been loading a pre-lubricated felt wad over the powder followed by the ball with no grease.  So far I have had no problems with this combination.

[dodgecity]

I have never had the experience of a chain fire. I tend to think that it was more of a problem in the older guns where the cylinder chamber might be a little out of round, and thus did not provide a tight seal. I use the wonder wads in my Ruger Old Army, and grease over the ball in all of my replica revolvers. With the proper size ball, and either one of the above methods, I would think that a chain fire across the front of the cylinder would be an almost non-existant occurence in a replica firearm. Chain fire across the nipples on the other hand is a very real possibility if a cap on a loaded chamber falls off and an ajacent chamber is fired.

[crossbow]

I got a chainfire once it happened after I replaced the nipples on the gun,the replacement nipples were longer than the originals so the recoil of the first shot knocked all the rest of them on the frame shield detonating the whole lot.So when you change nipples on a revolver make sure the new ones are the same length as the originals.Other than something like this I reckon the chances of a chainfire are slim.

[dodgecity]

crossbow, other than what was obviously a very disconcerting experience, was any injury done to your hand or, to the revolver?

[bgjohn]

Yeah, what happened to you and the gun? Are you now called "Lefty"?
JM

[crossbow]

Yeah the frame of the gun was pretty badly beat up,had to get a new frame for it.As for me nothing, just needed new underwear.

[Singing Bear]

Had a couple with an ASM 60.  Turns out the cylinder chambers were out of round and 2 cylinders would CF from the front.  Did a check by removing the nipples, seating the balls and holding the cylinder up to light.  Lots of uneven gaps around the balls in at least 2 chambers of 2 different cylinders that I experienced chain fires with.  The chambers for all my other guns show dark and have never had CF problems with them.  I use paper cartridges and don't use any wads or lube.  Guess I'll start using wads with this particular gun.

Btw, a pard emailed some interesting info when I inquired about my particular CF problem.  The info stated that the chambers on earlier Colt revolvers were straight walled and any amount of erosion would cause a CF.  Gotta figure they used paper cartridges during the CW and no lube or wads.  The fix was to taper the chamber larger at the mouth and smaller at the nipple end as it is with most makes of modern replicas.  The few do get by with badly reamed chambers but can be remedied by using lubed wads or over ball lube. .

[MOGorilla]

I had an extra chamber go off, it was the result of the cap falling off the nipple during a previous shot, the next shot threw enough of a spark to set both chambers off, the 'extra' shot knocked my wedge out.  No damage that I could see though.  I seat the caps a little more aggressively now.

[unspellable]

My buddy's revolver with was loaded with grease over the balls.  Seems to me that a good dollop of grease would cover a multitude of sins as far as out of true chambers and balls are concerned.  Makes me wonder how many chain fires happen on the back end among the nipples and caps.

I shoot a caplock double rifle.  The left hand lock will spit on my left wrist (I shoot right handed.) and it soon taught me to keep the tender hide on the underside of my wrist covered.  Also instructive as to why there are such things as right and left handed locks on single barreled long guns.  But the point here is that it does spit, and this may be related to chain fires.  I am really only familiar with the Ruger Old Army.  How much of a barrier do other revolvers have between nipples?

When my buddy's revolver chain fired I reflexivly threw it in a snow bank.  Probably the wrong thing to do as I lost control of which way it was pointing.  After the fact we found that the two chambers on the right side of the revolver next to the one being fired had gone off.  No apparent damage to the revolver or anything else except my flinch.

[filmokentucky]

I've never had a chain fire...yet. I use a full load of powder and a tight ball---.379 in .36 caliber and .457 in .44 caliber. I put a dollop of lube over the ball and also smear some on the arbor when assembling the piece. I use a lube made up of half bees' wax and half tallow. As a bonus, I've never had a gun freeze up on me, not even a Remington. I make certain the caps are firmly seated, especially on my Walkers and have never had one come loose.
    The only chain fire I can recall seeing was around thirty years ago. Three chambers cooked off in a well worn Remington....sort of a three round burst. No one was hurt and the revolver was none the worse for it either.  We figured it was caused by loose caps. Sure got everyone's attention, though!

[Singing Bear]

Filmokentucky just reminded me of something that won't work with out of round chambers.  On my bad cylinders, the chamber mouths are true and will shave a nice ring of lead.  But once past that is where the problems are.  A larger ball will only size down to the size of the chamber mouth.  No more.  If the chamber is impoperly reamed, you'll still have mucho gaps around the ball.  Oddly enough the ball will seat snug, but only by a few points along the circumference.

Like filmokentucky does, use lots of over ball lube with these bad cylinders and there shouldn't be anymore CF problems.  :-)

[Gatofeo]

I had two or three multi-ignitions in the early 1970s with the same revolver: a cheap, Italian made, brass-framed copy of the 1851 Colt in .44 caliber (I know, Colt didn't make the Navy in .44 caliber, dunno what I was thinking when I got it).
Anyway, my memory is hazy on it now but I do recall that the proper (12 o'clock) chamber went off, as well as the 6 o'clock barrel. The ball wedged itself against the rammer but I pried it free with a knife point.
It was a shock when it happened, as the recoil and blast were noticeably stiffer.
The next time, the 2 o'clock and 6 o'clock chambers fired with the appropriate 12 o'clock. Never found both offending balls. Boy, that was some blast and recoil when it went off!
The third time, the 6 o'clock chamber went off and wedged the ball into the rammer. This time, it swelled the end of the rammer and warped the assembly around it.
I gave up on the revolver after that and gave it to a gunsmith friend for parts.
In all three instances, axle grease or Crisco (I was prone to use either at the time) were smeared liberally over the ball. The ball was a tight fit too, as I was casting .454 inch balls for it and my Ruger .45 Long Colt.
I have never believed that flame enters from the front of the cylinder, gets past the grease and ball, and ignites the powder.
Instead, I firmly believe that the flame enters around the caps and ignites the powder.
In the 1970s, I didn't even know that the smaller No. 10 caps existed and used nothing but No. 11 caps. I had to pinch them together to make them stay on the nipple
Since those days, I've made it a point to use tight-fitting caps on my nipples. Some revolvers require No. 10 and others require No. 11. In either case the caps are pinched into an oval shape to stay on the nipples.
After capping, I use a short length of wooden dowel to carefully seat the cap firmly onto the nipple.
For the past 20 years I've rarely use lubricant over the ball. Instead, I soak a stiff felt wad in lubricant and seat that on the powder firmly before seating the ball.
I believe that seating the wad against the powder flattens the wad a bit, pushing it against the sides of the chamber and preventing flashby from the front (if, indeed, this is the cause but I remain doubtful).
The only exception to my use of wads is with conicals, whose grooves are filled with lubricant. I have some original-pattern conicals with no grooves, so I smear lubricant over these.
Since the early 1970s I've sent thousands of lead balls and conicals down range and not had ONE multiple discharge. This, from a variety of revolvers and calibers.
I don't understand how a chamber can be cut with a bottle shape, considering the drill bit enters from the front. Even if it doesn't enter straight, and wobbles in an arc, wouldn't it just create a cone-shaped chamber instead of one wide at the front, narrow in the middle and wide at the rear?
How could this be done? I'm not a machinist so I don't understand.
Now, if the bit slipped sideways a bit, I can see how you'd get an elongated chamber. A ball rammed into such an elongated chamber would allow flame to get past the ball. But I'm inclined to believe that the grease over the ball would hinder the flame quite a bit.
The mechanics of a multiple discharge may never be understood because it's not a common event. Many shooters have, "a friend of a cousin whose boss knew a guy that ..." but cap and ball shooters who have actually experienced the event are rather rare.
In 30-plus years, I've met one --- and he credited it to his own ignorance: he didn't place grease over the ball and used ill-fitting caps that frequently fell off the nipples with each shot.
In short:
Use a tight-fitting ball of .320, .380, .454 or .457 inch.
Use proper caps that fit snugly, and firmly down on the nipple.
Pinch the cap into an elliptical shape so it clings to the nipple better.
Ensure the cap is fully down on the nipple by carefully pushing against it lightly with a wooden dowel.
Seat a well-lubricated felt wad firmly on the powder, before seating the ball.
Turn to Paterson, New Jersey and sing the praises of Samuel Colt.
Hey, it couldn't hurt!  

[unspellable]

If fire gets under a cap, what's the chances it sets the cap off rather than the powder?  Same end result.

[The Shrink]

Gentlemen

Bill Knight (The Mad Monk) has an interesting statement on the Schutzen board.  he states that the early Colt's were made with a bore on the chamber that was a true cylinder.  Erosion of the steel caused the ball to be loose in the chamber, causing chain fire.  Colt changed to a tapered chamber bore, which only put off the problem, didn't solve it.  In the days that the C&B was the only pistol to use, I imagine they got a lot more use than today's replicas.  I can see how this would show up then much more often than now, not even figuring in the changes in steels used.  

Wayne the Shrink

[unspellable]

I'd be willing to bet a lot of cap and ball revolvers get more rounds through them today then in the 19th Century.  Today we view powder, caps, and lead as cheap.  Back then they cost serious money, people didn't go shooting just for the fun of it.