Better tried by twelve...

[Dee]

I draw the line on infringing on other peoples rights.

[JustaShooter]

must have missed that walmart exemption in the 2nd amendment.

Not sure why you mentioned Walmart? Walmart doesn't prohibit concealed carry in their stores.  But what you clearly missed is that the 2A (and all other amendments, for that matter) only restrict government, not private property owners.  You have *no* right to enter another's property, the *privilige* of entering another's property is extended to those who meet their conditions for entry. "No loitering" "No soliciting" "No shirt, no shoes, no service" "No smoking" "No vaping" and yes, "No weapons". If you don't like their conditions, go elsewhere. *That* is your right.  Thinking you can enter another's property without following their conditions is socialist thinking.

It is my RIGHT to own and carry a gun. If you fold to some liberal business owners pressure then where do you draw the line.

You insist on your rights while violating the rights of property owners. <shrug> If I didn't know better, I'd think it was a leftist speaking.  Just because a business is open to the public does not remove its right to control that property and only extend permission to enter to those that adhere to their conditions. 

Besides, again, why would you willingly give your hard-earned money to a known anti-gun establishment and fund their anti-gun activities?

[Dee]

must have missed that walmart exemption in the 2nd amendment.

Not sure why you mentioned Walmart? Walmart doesn't prohibit concealed carry in their stores.  But what you clearly missed is that the 2A (and all other amendments, for that matter) only restrict government, not private property owners.  You have *no* right to enter another's property, the *privilige* of entering another's property is extended to those who meet their conditions for entry. "No loitering" "No soliciting" "No shirt, no shoes, no service" "No smoking" "No vaping" and yes, "No weapons". If you don't like their conditions, go elsewhere. *That* is your right.  Thinking you can enter another's property without following their conditions is socialist thinking.

It is my RIGHT to own and carry a gun. If you fold to some liberal business owners pressure then where do you draw the line.

You insist on your rights while violating the rights of property owners. <shrug> If I didn't know better, I'd think it was a leftist speaking.  Just because a business is open to the public does not remove its right to control that property and only extend permission to enter to those that adhere to their conditions. 

Besides, again, why would you willingly give your hard-earned money to a known anti-gun establishment and fund their anti-gun activities?

Summing up your post in 2 words. RESPECTFUL WISDOM. A rarity these days.

[Doublebass73]

Besides, again, why would you willingly give your hard-earned money to a known anti-gun establishment and fund their anti-gun activities?

Exactly why I stopped shopping at Walmart. They decided to get into bed with Michael Bloomberg and become "woke". They stopped selling all handgun ammo and any ammo that could be used in "assault weapons". They also banned open carry but the kicker for me was when the CEO of Walmart publicly called on Congress to enact more gun control laws. I haven't set foot in there since, they can go shyt in their hat.

[ironglows]

  Generally I don't patronize any business that is paranoid over guns.  Some are dumb enough to welcome outlaw shooters in, by declaring their customers as generally unarmed.

  Do signs such as "no guns allowed" carry force of law?  Well, that seems to depend upon where you live..

  Here is a very helpful article for all who concealed carry;

  https://aliengearholsters.com/blog/no-guns-allowed-signs/

  As the article reads, some states say it does carry the weight of law.  If you scroll down, there is a list of states where such signs carry the force of law..

  It happens that IF I happen to wander into such an establishment, and am somehow? discovered..and the manager asks that I leave, I will do so... A) out of courtesy, and B) because i made a mistake going in there in the first place!

     From the article..in the following states, such signs carry the force of law;

Alabama
Alaska
Arizona
Illinois
Mississippi
Minnesota
Kansas
Kentucky
Nebraska
New Mexico
North Carolina
Ohio
Oklahoma
South Carolina
Tennessee
Texas
Utah*
Virginia*
Wisconsin

  In any case, I value the lives of my family and loved ones...over any private prejudices.. my bad!

[ironglows]

  Generally I don't patronize any business that is paranoid over guns.  Some are dumb enough to welcome outlaw shooters in, by declaring their customers as generally unarmed.

  Do signs such as "no guns allowed" carry force of law?  Well, that seems to depend upon where you live..

  Here is a very helpful article for all who concealed carry;

  https://aliengearholsters.com/blog/no-guns-allowed-signs/

  As the article reads, some states say it does carry the weight of law.  If you scroll down, there is a list of states where such signs carry the force of law..

 Where I live, such signs DO NOT carry force of law!   ...But if it happens that I wander into such an establishment, and am somehow discovered? ..and the manager asks that I leave, I will do so... A) out of courtesy, and B) because i made a mistake going in there in the first place!

     From the article..in the following states, such signs carry the force of law;

Alabama
Alaska
Arizona
Illinois
Mississippi
Minnesota
Kansas
Kentucky
Nebraska
New Mexico
North Carolina
Ohio
Oklahoma
South Carolina
Tennessee
Texas
Utah*
Virginia*
Wisconsin

  In any case, I value the lives of my family and loved ones...over any private prejudices.. my bad!

[Dee]

Well, selfish self-centered people have always felt their "cause I want to" trumped other peoples rights. And their lame justifications hold up only in their feeble minds, but seldom in court.
If you get caught in Texas and several other states,  in a legally posted business carrying a gun, you'll get broke of suckin eggs, and you'll find out what a dumbass idea it really was.
They will lock your dumbass up, and you'll have a criminal record, over being a hardheaded dumbass. That'll take care of your carrying a gun period.
I myself will continue to treat other folks Constitutional rights the way I would want them to treat mine.
If they don't want my gun in their businesses, I'll continue to respect their rights, and will simply move on.

ANYBODY, that knowingly violates a legal sign, or tramples a business owners rights by carrying a gun into where it is not wanted, and not welcome, is a overbearing self-righteous moron, and should be criminally prosecuted.
If they haven't got enough sense to respect the law, and business owners rights, they have no business carrying a gun anyway.

[billy_56081]

  Generally I don't patronize any business that is paranoid over guns.  Some are dumb enough to welcome outlaw shooters in, by declaring their customers as generally unarmed.

  Do signs such as "no guns allowed" carry force of law?  Well, that seems to depend upon where you live..

  Here is a very helpful article for all who concealed carry;

  https://aliengearholsters.com/blog/no-guns-allowed-signs/

  As the article reads, some states say it does carry the weight of law.  If you scroll down, there is a list of states where such signs carry the force of law..

  It happens that IF I happen to wander into such an establishment, and am somehow? discovered..and the manager asks that I leave, I will do so... A) out of courtesy, and B) because i made a mistake going in there in the first place!

     From the article..in the following states, such signs carry the force of law;

Alabama
Alaska
Arizona
Illinois
Mississippi
Minnesota
Kansas
Kentucky
Nebraska
New Mexico
North Carolina
Ohio
Oklahoma
South Carolina
Tennessee
Texas
Utah*
Virginia*
Wisconsin

  In any case, I value the lives of my family and loved ones...over any private prejudices.. my bad!

Minnesota the signs carry no force of law.

[billy_56081]

J. DO “NO GUN SIGNS” HAVE THE FORCE OF LAW?
No. “No Firearm” signs in Minnesota do not have the force of law unless they are posted on property that is specifically mentioned in State law as being off limits to those with a permit/license to carry. However, as a possessor with a real property interest, a retailer, has the right to limit, and qualify the right to enter the property, subject to not carrying a handgun. It would be improper to enter, and the licensee would be subject to ejection for possession of a handgun thereat. Failure to leave once requested would subject the licensee to criminal charges. [http://gunla.ws/gevj]

[Lloyd Smale]

i guess do what you feel is right. Me? Ill carry. Personally i dont open carry anywhere. It makes people nervous and thats not my intent. But i WILL carry counseled. The people you need to fear the most know exactly where those signs are and its where there going to commit crimes. Ive never heard of anyone in Michigan getting arrested or even getting there guns taken away for carrying anywhere. Not even open carry. I dont leave the state anymore so if you live in a state that would actually arrest you for peacefully sitting in a restaurant that some liberal owns and doesnt want guns and would actually arrest you and put you in jail then i feel sorry for you. Comical thing is this state has the most liberal governor in the country. At least in the top ten. Id think texas and some of the others wouldnt stand for laws that infringed on your second amendment RIGHT. Whats next you going to take your trump hat off if they have a sign saying no trump hats allowed. Give the liberals a inch and there GOING to take a mile. but i guess if your willing to bend over then its none of my business. Hopefully if something happens three's someone that thinks like me that will protect your family while you run to the parking lot for your gun. Like was said if it gets me put in jail so be it. I find that alot more appealing then burying my wife or grandkids.

[Dee]

Bless your heart Lloyd, you continually quote folks saying, and doin stuff they didn't say, or do, while drifting off into their character, and telling us how lucky we are to  have folks like yourself to bail us out of our self inflicted dilemma.
You are absolutely the last human on the planet I'd want protecting me, they'd shoot you while you were still bellerin, and pounding your chest.

And if you had been paying attention (which you seldom do), you'd know that you wouldn't have to rescue me, because I clearly stated (though not clearly enough for you to comprehend) that I don't  patronize (that means go into) such businesses that don't allow (that means want) guns in their businesses.
Down here in Texas business owners have rights to, and when the "little Lloyds" down here get caught sneaking their guns into their businesses, they lock the "little Lloyds up. Trump hat and all.

In Texas if a business owner posts a legal state approved sign, they will lock your ass up if caught VIOLATING SOMEONE ELSES RIGHTS by sneaking a gun into that business (and sneaking is what it is), so its good for everybody down here, that you no longer leave your home state. Including yourself.

Your 2nd Amendment right does not trump someone elses rights, but you're in Michigan, and I have no issues with you trying to bully or "sneak a gun into a business owners establishment" that doesn't want your gun in his store up there.
I don't care about your "comical governor" or your "comical viewpoint" of Texas law (or any other state for that matter).

Now I'm going back to reality (which consists of ignoring you), and you've got the floor to continue your delusional quoting of things people (such as myself), didn't actually do, or say, and as far as your assessment of my character, I'm considering the source.

i guess do what you feel is right. Me? Ill carry. Personally i dont open carry anywhere. It makes people nervous and thats not my intent. But i WILL carry counseled. The people you need to fear the most know exactly where those signs are and its where there going to commit crimes. Ive never heard of anyone in Michigan getting arrested or even getting there guns taken away for carrying anywhere. Not even open carry. I dont leave the state anymore so if you live in a state that would actually arrest you for peacefully sitting in a restaurant that some liberal owns and doesnt want guns and would actually arrest you and put you in jail then i feel sorry for you. Comical thing is this state has the most liberal governor in the country. At least in the top ten. Id think texas and some of the others wouldnt stand for laws that infringed on your second amendment RIGHT. Whats next you going to take your trump hat off if they have a sign saying no trump hats allowed. Give the liberals a inch and there GOING to take a mile. but i guess if your willing to bend over then its none of my business. Hopefully if something happens three's someone that thinks like me that will protect your family while you run to the parking lot for your gun. Like was said if it gets me put in jail so be it. I find that alot more appealing then burying my wife or grandkids.

[Lloyd Smale]

so i guess were suppose to bow to liberal business owners. They are open to the public and should be subject to the constitution just like me. If its in there home that's one thing. But when they open there doors to the public and make money from them they shouldn't be able to throw the constitution out the door because there liberal pieces of crap that dont like guns. Like i said what's next. They don't like your  t shirt or hat so you cant come in. Dont the the brand of car you drive so stay out of there parking lot. Don't want cops to carry guns or want to defund so they tell the police to leave there gun in the car or don't come in.  Don't know why you always need to turn things into personal attacks but you do it not only to me so i guess its just your personality. You do what you want but when you give in to these liberals its just like banning ar15s. They get one thing done and there going after something else. People in Texas should be writing there senators and governor to change these stupid laws that in fact blow me away that exist in a state like Texas. You say I should not carry just because a left wing store owner doesn't like guns and i say if they want to turn our constitution into toilet paper they should be allowed to have a business license. There are federal state and local laws. Then there's the  CONSTITUTION. That trumps all and is not only the law but there RIGHT of every American. Means something to me. But if you want to throw insults and personal attacks i can do that too. Now you show me where i  changed a single word you said.  Ignore me? I get tired of hearing you say it. Must be about the 50th time you've said it. You just cant stand to not be THE MAN and attack anyone that doesn't agree with you. I dont take any of this personaly. Just disagree with you and have my right to post my opinion. What you dont do is make me angry or loose a minute of sleep.

[billy_56081]

In Minnesota you rarely see a no gun sign. When Jesse Ventura got shall issue passed there were a lot of signs. I think customer pressure got rid of a lot of them. I personally got the manager of a gas station to remove theirs.  I  bought 2 to 3 tanks of gas there every week for my F350. I informed him I would no longer do business with them if it stayed up. He removed it immediately.

[Dee]

Well Billy, you don't see that many state approved signs down here in Texas either. Mostly at hospitals, a few medical clinics, and an occasional store. Very few gun toters make issue with those businesses that don't want any guns on premises, they just move on down the street to the next store.

I don't consider these folks radical left, they may not even be liberal. They just don't care for gun,s and don't want to be around them.

I consider my 2nd Amendment to be one of my most important Constitutional rights, but I consider it my moral, and patriotic duty to respect everyone elses Constitutional rights also.

Everyone seems to put a lot of weight on the 2nd Amendment, and to hell with other folks beliefs, preferences, or more importantly, their rights. Isn't that the problem of the left?

There are always the radical over the top walking p.a.systems, whom mostly are short little runts that have found their voices over the internet, blasting everybody else from their highchair.
But for the Constitution to work as it was written, is for everyone to respect everyone else, and their rights, agree or disagree, these folks are entitled to our respect, under the constitution.

[Lloyd Smale]

Bless your heart dee!  again with the sly personal attacks. Fact is the second amendment is a RIGHT. SO IMPORTANT that it was the second thing our forefathers decide was a RIGHT of ALL AMERICANS. Ive yet to see a conservatives owned business that doesnt believe it is a right. Maybe where your at but not where i live. I dont personally know ANY conservatives that dont like guns. Heck up here i can even show you many liberals who like guns and carry

 I suppose my first amendment right too doesnt hold up if someone doesnt believe in my opinion??? That is more socialism then democracy. Trampling our first and second amendment RIGHTS is the new socialist agenda plain and simple. Either your on one side or the other.

This short little runt wont be bullied by anti gun anti Christian and anti free speech bleeding heart liberals. If you feel the need to be there sheep then thats your choice. Like I said, i wonder what your opinion would have been when you were a police officer if YOU were told to leave your gun in your vehicle to go into an establishment to respond to a call or even to eat lunch? Id bet youd think you have some special rules that cover that situation.

I will continue to do just what mule does. I WILL NOT leave my gun behind for anyone. I wont advertise the fact i have it but then i never do. For the constitution to work it has to be enforced. Not turned into toliet paper like the liberals are doing. Not to be turned into toliet paper because some hippy owns a store. I will respect them. I will keep my gun concealed so it doesnt bother there customers. Thats my compromise, that is my respect.

 If that makes me a short little voice on the internet then i welcome them and you to measure me. When you show me something in the constitution that says that the second amendment doesnt apply in a public store or restaurant ill concede. Id think living in texas today with the border being flooded by murders, drug dealers and skum that anyone that leaves there gun in the truck is a dumb sob. Got anymore personal attacks?? Im up for another laugh. Maybe you can ignore me and attack ironglow again. Seems to be your thing. You sure seemed to get riled up fast when someone disagrees with you

Everyone seems to put a lot of weight on the 2nd Amendment, and to hell with other folks beliefs, preferences, or more importantly, their rights. Isn't that the problem of the left?

  No the problem with the left is they want to twist our RIGHTS to fit there agenda. They are pro abortion. Do you respect the rights of baby killers? Is that ok with you even if the laws says its ok? Wheres the respect when were talking religion. Just saw a post where you bashed the catholics (about daily for something)  crucifix. Wheres your respect for my beliefs? Im out of here now. I know one thing for sure by now. Theres no reasoning with you. Its your way or the highway.

[billy_56081]

Well Billy, you don't see that many state approved signs down here in Texas either. Mostly at hospitals, a few medical clinics, and an occasional store. Very few gun toters make issue with those businesses that don't want any guns on premises, they just move on down the street to the next store.

I don't consider these folks radical left, they may not even be liberal. They just don't care for gun,s and don't want to be around them.

I consider my 2nd Amendment to be one of my most important Constitutional rights, but I consider it my moral, and patriotic duty to respect everyone elses Constitutional rights also.

Everyone seems to put a lot of weight on the 2nd Amendment, and to hell with other folks beliefs, preferences, or more importantly, their rights. Isn't that the problem of the left?

There are always the radical over the top walking p.a.systems, whom mostly are short little runts that have found their voices over the internet, blasting everybody else from their highchair.
But for the Constitution to work as it was written, is for everyone to respect everyone else, and their rights, agree or disagree, these folks are entitled to our respect, under the constitution.

That is why I used my first amendment and informed the owner he would financially suffer for the sign. The loss of potential income changed his mind.

[ironglows]

We had a fellow in a nearby town, who had a liquor store.  He's dead now, but he used to post very partisan political signs in his window.  I guess he never caught on that it could hurt his business.

  I don't know how good his business ever was, because I never deal in alcoholic products.