Better tried by twelve...

[ironglows]

  .
   Far better being tried by twelve, than several being carried by six!

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/man-pulls-concealed-carry-weapon-in-gun-free-mall-to-defend-family-and-bystanders-during-shooting/ar-BB1fRylY?ocid=msedgdhp

  ...But it looks like this man may not be tried..perhaps common sense prevails.

[Doublebass73]

The only "gun free" zone we have in my area is the high school my kids went to. There's a sign as you're driving in. I ignored it for the 10 years I had kids at that school. A sign at a government school does not trump my right to keep and bear arms. Luckily my kids are all graduated now so I don't have to go there anymore.

This guy at the mall made the right decision.

[Lloyd Smale]

i chuckle at the VA. They have a sign on the door of the clinic saying to guns past this point. they apparently dont trust the very vets there taking care of!! I told my VA doctor years ago i carry and will carry even in her office. She laughed and said she could care less. Comical thing is shes a democratic gay women and doesnt hide it. But she believes in RIGHTS. She said she grew up in a family of hunters and has hunted her self. used to even eat meat (on the table) but is now a vegan. Shes a bird though. First appointment i had when the masks were mandatory the minute she closed the door she said lets take these silly things off. Shes a hell of a lot tougher then many men ive met. She asked me once what my opinion of her being gay was. I told her as long as she didnt swap spit in front of it was her right to be what she wanted but as a Christian i sure didnt agree it was right and if she felt it was important enough to spend eternity in hell over it was her choice. i dont take my gun off for anyone or any place. Even the sheriff and his deputies know when im in there office im armed.

[Dee]

I don't ignore "no gun signs" as long as they're legal state approved signs. I believe that business owners have the right to control what they want, and don't want in their businesses.
Kinda like baking cakes for queer weddings.
In Texas it's a felony I think to violate these signs and I'm not about to do that. If such a sign is posted on a business, I simply don't enter that business. I have that right, but I'm not gonna violate the business owners rights by refusing to honor "his rights".

This "alleged hero" in this article is not a hero. He didn't stop anything, because he didn't confront anything.
What he did do, was violate a business owners rights. Plain and simple, because he didn't care about their rights.
"He" did what "he" wanted to  do. Ta hell with the owners.

As far as "common sense prevailing"?

Common sense would have been to go to another store that allowed ccw.
This seems more about, hard headedness, and defiance of business owners rights,  getting a pass.

Aren't we glad someone doesn't want to violate our rights to choose?

[billy_56081]

In liberal Minnesota no gun signs have no weight of law. If you are asked to leave because they know your carrying you can be charged with trespass if you refuse to leave.

[Dee]

Well Billy, if you believe in business owners rights concerning rioters and looters, why wouldn't you believe in their rights to not want guns in their businesses?
It cuts both ways. They either have rights, or they don't.
This ain't a lecture to anyone. It's my own personal opinion.
If I want my Constitutional Rights respected, I have to respect others rights. Whether I agree or not.

[ironglows]

.
  ..It apparently depends upon what state you are in!  Wouldn't hurt to check before you carry in such an establishment.
  https://aliengearholsters.com/blog/no-guns-allowed-signs/#:~:text=Signage%20and%20Force%20Of%20Law,but%20don%27t%20in%20others.

  I do know that Were I in that father's place, when the shooting started, I would be darn glad i brought Mr Ruger along with me..  Or Mr Colt , Messers Smith and Wesson, or even Herr Walther...

[Dee]

So your saying it's ok to carry a gun into a private business that doesn't want it in there?
Are you for individual rights, or just "some" individual rights that suit you?
And also, you suggest that the "state" your in should dictate a business owners rights?

If I had been the father I wouldn't have been there in the first place.
I would have went to a gun friendly business to buy my suit.

[ironglows]

  "So your saying it's ok to carry a gun into a private business that doesn't want it in there?
Are you for individual rights, or just "some" individual rights that suit you?"

   I didn't say any of those things... just presented what I found concerning the issue.

  So far as what I did say...it wouldn't matter if I was in a store, gas station or cake bakery...when the shooting starts, I would just as soon have my gun with me, rather than left behind..

[Dee]

  "So your saying it's ok to carry a gun into a private business that doesn't want it in there?
Are you for individual rights, or just "some" individual rights that suit you?"

   I didn't say any of those things... just presented what I found concerning the issue.

  So far as what I did say...it wouldn't matter if I was in a store, gas station or cake bakery...when the shooting starts, I would just as soon have my gun with me, rather than left behind..

But that's not the topic. The topic (this is your thread) is, about a father carrying, and displaying a gun, in a gun free zone.

"Tried by twelve than carried by six"  Remember?

Same questions. 

[Lloyd Smale]

Me? I think my constitutional rights trump states rights or the right of a business owner to make up his own rules. He has his first amendment right to voice his concern but so do I. thats why the liberals are winning today. To many let them crap on your constitutional rights. What if a restaurant puts up a no whites allowed sign?? Michigan is like many other states. If you carry in a business that says not to all they can do is ask you to leave or refuse to serve you. I live in an open carry state as you do. What if your walking down the street with your glock and it offends some mexican? Are you going to put your gun in your truck or smile and keep walking. Someone that owns a PUBLIC business put that business in that state knowing it was legal to carry a gun in that state. He has the freedom to move. Now if someone asked me to remove my gun when i walked into there private home i would gladly oblige. I remember not to long ago that somewhere (i believe it was Minnesota believe it or not) that two police officers went into a restaurant and the owner told them to disarm or leave. Whats your opinion on that. Theres nothing in the constitution that gives police more right to carry then it gives me. As much as this country is anti police this kind of thing will soon be routine. Want to be that if your a cop in minesota today, and are told to not come into my home with a gun on you or a restaurant.  Or for that matter if it bothers anyone  anywhere and they stood there ground and refused theyd be on the carpet tomorrow morning. I will say this. I dont open carry (rarely anyway) because i know it makes some uncomfortable and its no inconvenience to conceal a gun but i wont have any liberal telling me where i can carry and where i cant. Be it a store owner, my neighbor or my liberal governor. If they arrest me so be it. Fortunately i live in a part of our state where that kind of bs just doesnt happen. 

So your saying it's ok to carry a gun into a private business that doesn't want it in there?
Are you for individual rights, or just "some" individual rights that suit you?
And also, you suggest that the "state" your in should dictate a business owners rights?

If I had been the father I wouldn't have been there in the first place.
I would have went to a gun friendly business to buy my suit.

[Dee]

I think I've already answered that. That you believe your rights trumps someone elses rights, is understood.

[ironglows]

.
  Perhaps Lloyd meant his right to live, trumps the killer's right to kill him!      

[Dee]

.
  Perhaps Lloyd meant his right to live, trumps the killer's right to kill him!      

LOL, you never own anything do you?

Same questions if. Does the fathers' rights trump the mall owners' rights?

[ironglows]

.
  Perhaps Lloyd meant his right to live, trumps the killer's right to kill him!      

LOL, you never own anything do you?

Same questions if. Does the fathers' rights trump the mall owners' rights?

  Well, when it comes to a choice between a wife and children's lives, vs some shop owner's
   pride as a liberal, I suppose each can answer that for themselves...      

[Dee]

.
  Perhaps Lloyd meant his right to live, trumps the killer's right to kill him!      

LOL, you never own anything do you?

Same questions if. Does the fathers' rights trump the mall owners' rights?

  Well, when it comes to a choice between a wife and children's lives, vs some shop owner's
   pride as a liberal, I suppose each can answer that for themselves...      

Well ironglow, you still haven't answered the TOPIC question to a thread that you started.
You claim that the Constitution and Bill of Rights is important to you, but your pride will not allow you to ever admit that you could be wrong.
You are giving my direct questions on this mall owners' rights vs this father's rights "THE BIDEN TREATMENT".
Deflect, Deflect, Deflect.
Your as obvious as Biden is in that regard.

You are selective on other peoples rights.

The father was wrong, and disrespectful, in ignoring the mall owners rights. That your pride will not let you admit that is your weakness, not mine.

[Mule 11]

I’ll answer this. If I carried into a shop owners store that posted a no gun sign I’d be trampling his rights. I would be wrong. But I’d do it anyways... Generally I poke my head in the door and inform them that there sign is the preferred sign of armed criminals everywhere and also that they just lost my business.

[Dee]

Well there's a big difference in admitting it would be wrong but willing to take the consequences, and and doing "a Joe Biden " with nonsensical topic skirting.
Appreciate your honesty.

[Lloyd Smale]

big difference to me is the shop owner or restaurant owner is running a public place. He isnt allowed to change the laws or the constitution. He cant say that murder is ok in his restaurant or that smoking crack is ok because it his property. Like i said i would respect his wishes in his home but NOT a business open to the public. Nothing in the second amendment says i have the right to bear arms except in mc donalds or taco bell. If i was to cave for those business what next. Is my governor going to say i cant carry on a state owned beach. In my opinion if you open a public business in MI or Tx for that matter where carry is legal tough crap if you dont like it or vote democratic and want to take away my guns and infringe on my CONTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.  I dont bow to the no gun in church rule and i sure as hell wont for burger king. Michigans insane law states if theres more then x amount of people in the building you cant carry. I dont even know the number because that rules a joke. Where would you feel more need to carry then anywhere. In a larger arena with thousands of people i dont know?? Ill be carrying. Dont much care what the owners of that place or the state says about it. You never answered what your opinion was of that restaurant owner that told the police officers they couldnt have guns. Do you support THAT restaurants owners right to his opinion? To me saying no gun carriers allowed through these doors is no different then saying no blacks allowed or no mexicans allowed. Its an infringement on my constitutional rights plain and simple. These right cover the whole US not just select parts and if you concede a small victory to the liberals they will just keep adding and adding till all thats left is turning in you guns. Let me ask this. Do you think if pelosi decided to go into that restaurant shed have her secret service body guards disarm??? NO? then why should I. The liberals today are staging a coup. They are comming for all of our gun rights. They are NOT MY FREINDS and nope i DONT RESPECT them. If they make a law tomorrow that says you MUST turn in your guns are you going to cave to that too. They have emboldened every mexican and every black in this country to think they can commit any crime and the police are scared to act. So much so that in some places if someone drew a gun in a store your lucky if they would even respond to a call. They have taken our right to free speech. They are changing our government as i type this. They have absoultely no respect for me or my rights and you want me to worry about some liberal store owner??? Best draw your line. I have and the safety
 of my family comes before some liberal store owners opinion of the second amendment. Comes before anything but GOD.

[ironglows]

.
  Perhaps Lloyd meant his right to live, trumps the killer's right to kill him!      

LOL, you never own anything do you?

Same questions if. Does the fathers' rights trump the mall owners' rights?

  Well, when it comes to a choice between a wife and children's lives, vs some shop owner's
   pride as a liberal, I suppose each can answer that for themselves...      

Well ironglow, you still haven't answered the TOPIC question to a thread that you started.
You claim that the Constitution and Bill of Rights is important to you, but your pride will not allow you to ever admit that you could be wrong.
You are giving my direct questions on this mall owners' rights vs this father's rights "THE BIDEN TREATMENT".
Deflect, Deflect, Deflect.
Your as obvious as Biden is in that regard.

You are selective on other peoples rights.

The father was wrong, and disrespectful, in ignoring the mall owners rights. That your pride will not let you admit that is your weakness, not mine.

    ...Gotta start reading those links...  I some states the store occupant's wishes have "force of law" and in some states it doesn't.  You can extrapolate from that, whatever you wish..we see things differently.  I see the man as considering his family's lives as more important than the mall space renter's angst !
 
   https://aliengearholsters.com/blog/no-guns-allowed-signs/#:~:text=Signage%20and%20Force%20Of%20Law,but%20don%27t%20in%20others

[Dee]

.
  Perhaps Lloyd meant his right to live, trumps the killer's right to kill him!      

LOL, you never own anything do you?

Same questions if. Does the fathers' rights trump the mall owners' rights?

  Well, when it comes to a choice between a wife and children's lives, vs some shop owner's
   pride as a liberal, I suppose each can answer that for themselves...      

Well ironglow, you still haven't answered the TOPIC question to a thread that you started.
You claim that the Constitution and Bill of Rights is important to you, but your pride will not allow you to ever admit that you could be wrong.
You are giving my direct questions on this mall owners' rights vs this father's rights "THE BIDEN TREATMENT".
Deflect, Deflect, Deflect.
Your as obvious as Biden is in that regard.

You are selective on other peoples rights.

The father was wrong, and disrespectful, in ignoring the mall owners rights. That your pride will not let you admit that is your weakness, not mine.

    ...Gotta start reading those links...  I some states the store occupant's wishes have "force of law" and in some states it doesn't.  You can extrapolate from that, whatever you wish..we see things differently.  I see the man as considering his family's lives as more important than the mall space renter's angst !
 
   https://aliengearholsters.com/blog/no-guns-allowed-signs/#:~:text=Signage%20and%20Force%20Of%20Law,but%20don%27t%20in%20others

I see you as the king if extrapolation, with all you "Bidenesk treatment s" of issues.
Your self centered pride, and self-righteousness will not allow you to address the real issue, which is the father trampling the business owners rights as requiring a gun free business,  by entering the mans business with a  gun anyway.
Your famous for this self centered behavior, where someone else is mistaken, and you are always right at all costs, and I in this case are "extrapolating" even though "your thread" was about a father ignoring business owners request of no firearms in his business.

This type of "double standard", and "Biden type attitude " is a waste of time.
I will in the future refrain from any discussion, and merely, but clearly, state my opinion.
You are all about being right, regardless of facts, and worthy of my ignore list.

[ironglows]

  ...You assume much !   

[Lloyd Smale]

where do most mass shootings occur? GUN FREE ZONES. enough said. you carry where you want and ill do the same. No personal attack needed to get a point across. Its simple as that . I live in a relatively crime free area. If i was near the border of texas today i wouldnt walk out my door without a gun and would have it on me from when i put my under ware on in the morning till i was in bed with a gun next to me. If i had a family there ALL of them would do the same. Wolf or sheep? If you dont think your constitutional rights  trump everything then you respect it as much as the socialists.

[Dee]

  ...You assume much !   

I assume nothing. I go by what I see.

[geezerbiker]

My solution is to avoid gun free zones.  If a business posts a no guns sign, the have posted a sign that they don't want my business.

One of my doctors has a sign like that and I didn't ignore it, I missed it until on the way out.  I said nothing and kept it out of sight and he was none the wiser...

Tony

[O-mega]

I certainly respect a businesses right to most things, but it stops at endangering my life or that of my family.  I believe I have a right to self defense, anywhere I happen to be.  Let's be real here, we aren't talking about forcing the business to get rid of the sign and allowing a weapons free area, we are talking about taking the calculated risk that you won't have a reason to display your weapon unless it's in defense of life and limb, and willing to accept the consequences either way.   

Here in TN, signs have Force of Law, so you run the risk of arrest just for being in the business that is posted, no trespass notice is required.  If there is an alternative to the posted business, I go there, if not I will make the decision whether to disarm or break the law.  The good thing is, that if you are forced to defend yourself in TN, and it is deemed a good shoot, then no other criminal charges can come from that.

[ironglows]

.
   Reading the links may be important. If many people are saved by wayof a selfless act..I don't look for ways to negate the gesture, by looking to see if somebody didn't dot an "i" or cross a "T"..

  Here is the heart of the mall incident, from the article;
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

     

A father pulled out his concealed carry weapon in a weapons-free Nebraska mall to protect his family and others when a fatal shooting unfolded.

"Every indication said our lives were in danger, and I was going to do everything in my power to make sure we got out of there OK,” Scott Tafoya said.

Omaha Westroads Mall is a weapon-free zone, but Tafoya said he had to pull out his legal concealed carry weapon and “deal with the consequence later.”

"I knew that if I ever pulled that out, it would truly be a life-and-death situation, and I would deal with the consequences later," he said.

The scene unfolded on Saturday while Tafoya was trying on a new suit for his daughter’s baptism and his wife and two daughters were shopping upstairs in the mall.

He saw a group of people running and made eye contact with a man who yelled, “Shooter!”

He ran to his family while unholstering his gun, and his wife told him she heard gunfire.

He then stood guard outside of a bathroom where mall officials had people shelter.

"I said I have a permit, I’m legal,” he said.

He later moved toward the escalators to draw any danger away from his family.

"Everyone else on the third floor just got added into that because the best way to keep my family safe was to make sure nobody with ill intentions came up that escalator,” Tafoya said, mentioning that he didn't feel any fear during the shooting situation. "I was sad. Because I wasn’t expecting to. If it was real, I didn’t think I was going to come home."

Police soon arrived on the scene, and Tafoya unloaded the bullets of his gun and put his hands up.

"I unloaded my weapon. I put it back in the holster where it was very visible that the slide was locked open. I put my permit in my hands and my hands above my head,” he said.

Law enforcement officers also did not charge him for having a gun in a weapons-free zone, and he added that those zones put people at risk.

"I don’t condone anyone breaking the law. I made the decision that was right for my family, and I stand behind it. I may still get in trouble for it. If I do, it was worth it,” he said.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  It appears that the LEOs on the spot didn't consider his actions to be of such an egregious nature..

   In fact, it looks like the Mall owners didn't seem to mind that an armed citizen was present....once the shooting started! See line from link, below..    

 
   " He then stood guard outside of a bathroom where mall officials had people shelter."
 

[JustaShooter]

My solution is to avoid gun free zones.  If a business posts a no guns sign, the have posted a sign that they don't want my business.

Exactly - why give your hard-earned money to a known anti-gun business? Other than government facilities, there are always alternatives that are not posted with very few exceptions.  They get my business, the others get a copy of the receipt and a "No Guns = No Money" card.

[ironglows]

My solution is to avoid gun free zones.  If a business posts a no guns sign, the have posted a sign that they don't want my business.

Exactly - why give your hard-earned money to a known anti-gun business? Other than government facilities, there are always alternatives that are not posted with very few exceptions.  They get my business, the others get a copy of the receipt and a "No Guns = No Money" card.

  My thoughts also..  Don't contribute to those who work against what you believe. Besides, I don't really want to go anywhere that I am not welcome.

  Not likely to catch me in a mall any time soon, either.  I would have to travel quite a few miles to one..and I don't care for them anyway.  Too much crowd and too much hub-bub for me !

[Lloyd Smale]

must have missed that walmart exemption in the 2nd amendment. It is my RIGHT to own and carry a gun. If you fold to some liberal business owners pressure then where do you draw the line. Not suppose to carry in church either. I DO!