Where is palestine and who owns that territory

[O-mega]

I found this as a comment and can't find much fault in it.  Can anyone find any holes in this, or make a better explanation?
https://www.quora.com/Palestine-is-in-which-continent

To whom does the land of Palestine belong?

Kind of an open question with not enough details.
First you have to define where the land of Palestine is.
Palestine comes from the name Philistine which were the ancient enemies of the Jewish people. There was a territory called Filistina that existed in an area around where Gaza is now.
See the red area of this map.

Later when the Romans expelled the Jewish people, they renamed the entire area Syria-Palestina so they wouldn’t be able to find their homeland on a map and return and also to name it after their enemies as a giant F-U

In times after that, the name Palestine didn’t appear very often on maps and the area was generally referred to only as Syria.


Under the Ottoman Empire, some maps showed Palestine[1] (2nd map)
Others did not[2]

During the League of Nations Mandate period the Mandate for Palestine originally was composed of Jordan and Israel

And the Mandate for Palestine later became just what is now Israel

Following the creation of the State of Israel there was no more territory called Palestine as the Jordanians in the West Bank made no effort to make an independent state there, nor did the Egyptians in Gaza.
So as you can see over the last 2000 years, there has been no congruent area called Palestine, as it appeared and disappeared over the years. Even now that is the case.
The same could be said about the people living in the territory as they have been from many many places as this area of land constantly had people moving through it as it connects Europe, Africa and Asia together.  But the fact is that the current sovereign rulers of the land are the Israelis. The best solution to the problems in the area is a two state solution, but that process is very hard for reasons with all parties involved. But one of the biggest difficulties is that the Palestinians refuse to even talk with Israel to negotiate.

So the British agreed to establish an area for Jews to relocate to, basically their historic land (second to the last map above), Arabs decided to go to war instead of creating their "Palestine", Israel kicked butt and took a bunch of land, gave most of it back to Egypt and Jordan.  Then they made a deal with Arafat to recognize the PLO, giving them the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, all the while the "Palestinian" maps never show an Israel, and many countries also only show "Palestine", and they publicly declare that they want to erase Israel off the map.  So what have I missed?  Seems the Israelis' have a right to just take both the west bank and the Gaza Strip by going back to the original mandate and declare them part of Israel.  I am sure the people would be much better off, specially without Hamas and the PLO being involved.

[Dee]

Looks good to me. The Israelis have gone far past fair in an effort to get along. I'd wipe the Gaza strip clean of this fake tribe that call themselves "Palestinians", and be done with it.

[quackaholic1]

Awesome post. Palestinians are actually a bunch of Arabs kicked

[quackaholic1]

Awesome post. Palestinians are actually a bunch of Arabs that aren't wanted in other arab nations because of their beliefs. They are lucky Israel is as open to them as they are.

[powderman]

Awesome post. Palestinians are actually a bunch of Arabs that aren't wanted in other arab nations because of their beliefs. They are lucky Israel is as open to them as they are.

GOOD POST SIR, welcome to the board. Jump in anytime.

The ONLY ONES with any right controlling ALL of that land was ISRAEL, GOD himself gave it to them. CHARLIE. 

[ironglows]

.
  Let's apply a bit of history, most of the last 2,000 years.

  Israel had been a hard province for Rome to control.  Their stern belief in one God, with It's various prescriptions and proscriptions, made them a hard culture to dominate.
 
  70AD... Finally fed up with the struggle, the Roman army under Titus, decided to punish the Jews..  So they attacked Jerusalem and destroyed the temple. They evicted those living in Jerusalem.

  AD 132-134  The Bar Kochba revolt...a general revolt which caused Roman Emperor, Hadrian to decide to settle the "Jewish question", once and for all. So he drove the Jews out and destroyed much real estate.

  Then, wanting to discourage and humiliate and residual Jews left in the area, Hadrian renamed Jerusalem " Aliea Capitolina", so as to discourage any Jews attempting to resettle the area.
 
   Then adding insult to injury, he named the area after the Jews' continual enemies, the Philistines.  The term Philistia became Palestine, and so it went from then on.

  From then on, the area was a rather wild and wooly place, ruled by various tribal leaders, much like some Arab areas today.

  Then Islam was invented by Muhammad and almost immediately went on the warpath..conquering territories.

  They conquered the area in question, and built the dome of the rock.  Islamic countries being what they are, there was continual turmoil, until the Ottoman empire emerged, headquartered in today's Turkey.

  The Ottoman empire ...roughly circa 1500 until 1917....was a very effective empire, swallowing up great provinces of land, including the former Israel and Judah.

   toward the end of the 19th century, the Ottoman empire was starting to crumble.  Then they made a fatal mistake, the Turks joined with Germany and the Austro-Hungarian empire, to fight against the allied powers.
 
  side lost...loser pays, so the Balfour commission decided it was time the Jews regained the homeland they were chased out of.

  No surprise, since God said the Jews would return to their 'promised land' (Amos 9:13-15)..where He also said they would never again be uprooted from their home.

[Dee]

.
  Let's apply a bit of history, most of the last 2,000 years.

  Israel had been a hard province for Rome to control.  Their stern belief in one God, with It's various prescriptions and proscriptions, made them a hard culture to dominate.
 
  70AD... Finally fed up with the struggle, the Roman army under Titus, decided to punish the Jews..  So they attacked Jerusalem and destroyed the temple. They evicted those living in Jerusalem.

  AD 132-134  The Bar Kochba revolt...a general revolt which caused Roman Emperor, Hadrian to decide to settle the "Jewish question", once and for all. So he drove the Jews out and destroyed much real estate.

  Then, wanting to discourage and humiliate and residual Jews left in the area, Hadrian renamed Jerusalem " Aliea Capitolina", so as to discourage any Jews attempting to resettle the area.
 
   Then adding insult to injury, he named the area after the Jews' continual enemies, the Philistines.  The term Philistia became Palestine, and so it went from then on.

  From then on, the area was a rather wild and wooly place, ruled by various tribal leaders, much like some Arab areas today.

  Then Islam was invented by Muhammad and almost immediately went on the warpath..conquering territories.

  They conquered the area in question, and built the dome of the rock.  Islamic countries being what they are, there was continual turmoil, until the Ottoman empire emerged, headquartered in today's Turkey.

  The Ottoman empire ...roughly circa 1500 until 1917....was a very effective empire, swallowing up great provinces of land, including the former Israel and Judah.

   toward the end of the 19th century, the Ottoman empire was starting to crumble.  Then they made a fatal mistake, the Turks joined with Germany and the Austro-Hungarian empire, to fight against the allied powers.
 
  side lost...loser pays, so the Balfour commission decided it was time the Jews regained the homeland they were chased out of.

  No surprise, since God said the Jews would return to their 'promised land' (Amos 9:13-15)..where He also said they would never again be uprooted from their home.

Good post.

[ironglows]

.
  " Jesus was a Palestinian and he spoke Aramaic. And his distant relatives live there, if they're still alive.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

  Now ^^^THAT^^^ I have to take issue with.  To start, yes Jesus spoke Aramaic, but from there on the statement goes haywire..

  A ) Jesus was no Palestinian.. there were no Palestinians at that time.  Surely if such were inthe area, the Bible would have mentioned them.  Jesus was born, lived and died a Jew.  His mother and step father were both descendants of King David.  He was born in Bethlehem, right in the heart of Judah. Bethlehem of Judah is the place of his nativity !

     "2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting." (Micah 5:2)

  B) We know from scripture, that He celebrated passover. Who but a Jew does that?

  C) He is known as "The lion of the tribe of Judah"!

   “And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.”  (Rev 5:5)     

  D) Jesus was never a Christian.  The term Christian, means "follower of Christ".  Why would Christ be a follower of Himself?  No, his followers were first called Christians at Antioch, some time after His resurrection.

   "26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

[Dee]

Well, somebody drove this one into the ditch with a Palestinian Jesus. Was it ilhan Omar or her brother/husband?
That theology is bizarre and sounds Islamic. Right outta the Koran.

[ironglows]

IG..

In your history you left out the little  fact that Jesus was born and established the New Covenant religion. Maybe that's not important to you.I never denied this very obvious fact.  He did establish the New Covenant, because as the Son of God, and God the son. He was fulfilling the scriptures that the Jews had failed to fulfill by refusing to recognize Him!
The faithful called this new faith Christianity in honor of its progenitor who admonished jews every chance he got until they assassinated him.. He regularly admonished the Jewish leaders, who had gone astray
 due to their own avarice. He even called them "blind guides" and a "generation of vipers".  Again, His followers were first called Christians in Antioch, some 20-30 years after Jesus' resurrection. Like "Baptist" the term "Christian" was originally a term of derision.

 Of the 3 Abrahamic religions 2 accept Jesus as holy and divine,  one completely rejects him and his mother.. True, the Jews in general have rejected Jesus, but that same New Covenant says they will eventually come around, like an elder brother who has gone astray. They have already started, within the last 2-3 decades. .....If the Muslims truly believe Jesus is holy, they sure have a strange way of demonstrating that, in relation to His followers and His cross!  Divine/divinity indicates God...Islam completely rejects Jesus' as God.

Bethlehem is a town in Palestine. Palestine is a region between the Mediterranean and the Jordan River. Jews and Pharaseism was centered in Jerusalem, and they saw everybody else as enemies. They are known for creating the credit/debt financial systems.  It seems natural that since from it's inception, Israel was continually attacked by their neighbors, Caananites, Jebusites, Philistines etc., no surprise, they considered their neighbors to be enemies.  Interesting, how after 3,500 years, the situation is still the same.....  Now, up to present day..look at Omega's 5th map down..the Balfour commission awarded the entire white area to the Jews, but the Hashemite tribe (Jordanians) screamed like stuck hogs, so the commission backed off and gave the eastern part to the Hashemites, up to the Jordan river. That portion was renamed TRANSJORDAN, meaning "across the Jordan".. That was the situation in 1948, when Israel was "born in a day".  Shortly after, the flotsam and jetsam being kicked out of other Arab countries, started encroaching in Israel..just across from Jordan, where they were rejected.

The Bible does not say one thing about Jesus's mother's lineage. Jesus was immaculately conceived, i.e. no seed. Joseph was his step father. Its a false assignment you're trying to make on his lineage, certainly counter allegorical to the Christian faith.  We've been down that road before..Mary's lineage is established in scripture... and was obviously accepted by the apostles, even by Paul, who was as Saul, formerly "a Pharisee of Pharisees"..

The Balfour Agreement clearly stated that indigenous Palestinian moslems, jews, and Christians property, civil rights, faiths would be unharmed. The introduction of Euro Ashkenazi zionist has caused incredible harm, grief, and is a failure.  Read the letter to Rothchild who's flag flies over Israel today.  doubtful

Jesus never said jews should kill .Palestinians. 1) Jesus wouldn't say that.  2) "Palestinians' did not exist then!  Palestine or Palestina was the term for lands along the Mediterranean, where the Philistines lived..roughly, where the Gaza strip is located today.  The Bible is a reliable history book, which was written over a 1,500 year period


 Yet the likes of Graham, Horn, Sprang, Hagee and dozens more preach an occult liturgy and genocide of Palestinians(?) who are Horn and Sprang?, and many here, too.despite some aggressive words, most here, allow Israel the right to self-defense
 
I find that occult position anti to Christ. And so I refuse to have Palestinian blood on my hands. You can do as you chose, but I won't substitute zionism for Christ, and will not have this blood on my hands. But it will be on your hands.  Like any sinner who ever lived, I have Jesus' blood on my hands, but Jesus has forgiven me.  He is ready to forgive the Muslims and Jews too, all they have to do is turn to Him, ask forgiveness, accept Him as God incarnate, and do their best to live by His word..  (John 14:6)
.
.TM7

    In Jesus' days on earth there were no Palestinians.  Philistines yes, Palestinians, no.

[ironglows]

  Sorry TM;
  There are some things we agree upon, but apparently the facts concerning Jesus and His ministry are a very  divisive area between us.
  Jesus had His disagreements with the leaders of the Jews, but no problem with the Jewish people, or the OT. 

   He went after the Pharisees and the money-changers, with a vengeance. These are the rare times when Jesus showed real anger. Just as today's politicians in Washington do not reflect the American way of life, the Scribes, Pharisees and Sadducees, did not reflect the scriptures.
 
   They actually concealed some truths from the scriptures , for instance, refusing to enlighten their people about Isaiah 52 and 53.
  Jesus was not sent to deny Judaism, but to fulfill it's promise, promise of a Messiah..fulfilled by Jesus!

   "“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.  (Matt 5:7

 

[ironglows]

.
 BTW;  I completely reject the claim that I would have the blood of Palestinians upon my hands, for these reasons:

 1) Keep in mind concerning the current 2000+Iiranian missiles that have landed in Israel from the Gaza strip.
    The Gaza strip was handed over to the Palestinians, upon their solemn promise of " land for peace" !  They got their land...so where's the peace?

  2) There have been times of peace that have descended over the area. so who started the conflict all over again  each time?

 3) There is very little doubt that were the Islamists to stop fighting, there would be no further conflict , surely Israel doesn't seek a conflict. 


 4) Israel would be very content to go about making new discoveries in science and medicine, technology, along with many developments..which have rained Nobel prizes for science upon the people.  They have no desire or need for conflict !

 5) If the 'Palestinians' want somebody to blame for their problems, they should blame Hamas, The PLO..and the Muslim nations who tossed them out many years ago.

[HWB13]

Was going to just read and move on,  but I can't.   The times of peace that were spoken of.  During the Ottoman control.  Jews, Christians,  and Muslims lived  side by side through out the promised land.   They celebrated their festivals side by side.  Many participated together.  As we do today,  when our neighboring communities have a Danish or Greek festival.  We don't say I'm not Greek or Danish but we go and eat pastries and gyros.  Great food and our neighbors.   They did much the same.  They honored their neighbors as themselves.  ( I remember reading that somewhere)  There were always those who want to rule and reign,  control is the factor that runs in the sin of man since the beginning.  If you eat the fruit you can be like God.  The vast majority of the population wanted to live in peace. 
Fast forward to the  6 day war.  The people living in Judea and Samaria were ecstatic to be out from under the Jordanian government that had treated them like the lowest form of life on the planet. Even as recently as 20 years ago living in Jordan and clamming the title of Palestinian was looked down upon.  A friend of mine who's father was a doctor was paid half as much as a the Jordanian doctor that worked for him. The Israeli government bowed to political pressure not to annex the area, which I personally think was a mistake.  But even now any one state solution includes permanent residents status and a path way to citizenship . After the 6 day war the residents of Judea and Samaria rejoiced in their liberation until those seeking control divided them. Ie.. Arafat, the PLO, and foremost the Iranians.
On a personal note: I will not use the descriptions of the area as the W**t B**k or the oc******ed te****ry as they reinforce the lie of what Judea and Samaria are.

[darkgael]

Attached is a map showing the distribution of the 12 tribes in ancient Israel. The province of Philistia does not appear. It occupied psrt of the western edge of Judah along the sea.

[powderman]

Attached is a map showing the distribution of the 12 tribes in ancient Israel. The province of Philistia does not appear. It occupied psrt of the western edge of Judah along the sea.

 PROVING, AGAIN, that entire area was given to the JEWS by God himself. I won't, but I would love to see the day that ISRAEL took back ALL of what God gave them. Had ISRAEL utterly destroyed all their enemies like God commanded, there would be no problems today, but they didn't, they let some live, livestock, people. They are still paying for that mistake. CHARLIE. 

[Dee]

Ishmael was the ILLIGITIMENT son of Abraham, and God said he would be a constant trouble maker, as would be his progeny.
He and his ilk are a punishment for Abraham listening to Sarah, and not believing God and His prophecy of Sarah bearing children, at such an old age. His trouble making ways were why he and his mother arrogant Hagar were driven off.
Ishmaels character was described as a "wild ass", and he would be against everyone, and they against him.
And to say that Christ was a Palestinian is ridiculous, and doesn't even deserve a response.

[Dee]

Sarah GAVE hagar to Abraham. Hagar was "a concubine", a mistress in this case. Abraham had 2 concubines/mistresses, and only Sarah was recognized as Abrahams wife.
She and her offspring had no rights to the family inheritance.

[geosmin]

Luke 2:4

And Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the town of Nazareth, to Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David,

Revelation 5:5
And one of the elders said to me, “Weep no more; behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered,  so that he  can open the scroll and its seven seals.”

Hebrews 7:11-17

11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

MAP
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribe_of_Judah#/media/File:12_Tribes_of_Israel_Map.svg

[Dee]

In those days the oldest son had all the rights of inheritance.  Even so the Lord spelled out Ishmael's blessing in the covenant,...even making the line stubborn as a donkey foreseeing the struggle ahead of them.

Only the Kabalanites would deny this, and their followers.

I'm gonna encourage you read a ligit Bible. I don't think you will, but you should, cause your missing this one a country mile.
This is another one of those "disagreements" that would be wasted time for both of us to discuss it.

[Dee]

In those days the oldest son had all the rights of inheritance.  Even so the Lord spelled out Ishmael's blessing in the covenant,...even making the line stubborn as a donkey foreseeing the struggle ahead of them.

Only the Kabalanites would deny this, and their followers.

I'm gonna encourage you read a ligit Bible. I don't think you will, but you should, cause your missing this one a country mile.
This is another one of those "disagreements" that would be wasted time for both of us to discuss it.

.
Ah yeah, I ll be sure to do that.  I don't really like discussing scripture and Zio-Israel with modern evangelical zionist 'Christians'. Its like discussing politics with libbers....wasting a lot of gas and going no where. But there's no blood on my hands....

So, I ll leave you with Micah (The Spirit of the Lord), appropriate today as it was years ago.
Check out Micah 2 and Micah 3

.TM7

And I'll leave you with Matthew Chapter 2.

Being a Christian, and debating scripture with a heretic who doesn't understand, or comprehend scripture, or chooses to ignore it is always a waste of time.

[Dee]

My favorite religious activist is Jesus Christ.
You need to stop pretending you know me.
Now lets drop this like I suggested 2 insults ago.
Take this discussion up with somebody that wants to.

[Dee]

My favorite religious activist is Jesus Christ.
You need to stop pretending you know me.
Now lets drop this like I suggested 2 insults ago.
Take this discussion up with somebody that wants to.

.
From a guy who says all Palestine doesn't exist,, but should be cleansed of native inhabitants and is an unabashed zionist, I never would've guessed Jesus could be your favorite.  Not an insult; just facts based on your comments.

Jesus is my favorite, too, and I actually try to follow and practice his teachings.
.

I'm sure your much purer than me, so lets be done with this.

[powderman]

I'd love to comment but over the years there have been some real hard feelings about this subject so I'm not going to say anything because most of us seem to get along pretty well and actually, mostly like each other, I want to keep it that way. CHARLIE.