Author Topic: for home protection when carrying isnt a concern... (Read 3928 times)

myronman3 · « **on:** January 04, 2003, 05:04:02 AM »

: a shotgun is by far the most effective close range weapon that you could get. if you are thinking on getting a gun to perhaps get your girl interested in shooting, think twice before you buy a snubby. they bark and recoil something fierce for a novice shooter. i did the same for my wife and found this out the hard way. all it did was turn her off from shooting. my advice is that if you intend to have your wife shoot it and you are hell bent on a handgun, get a full size 357 and start her out with 38 specials and go from there. the full size of the gun (weight and barrel length) will make it more fun to shoot and if your real concern is home protection and you dont want to heed the shotgun advice, smaller aint better for a pillow gun. how the perception that a snubby makes for a good woman's gun got started is beyond me. good luck!

CJ · « **Reply #1 on:** January 04, 2003, 05:11:17 AM »

My wife is on the petite side, she loves her S+W mod 60 3 inch barrel. She also outshoots a lot of men {including me sometimes} with tricked out guns when we go to the range. Stock gun except for Sile grips and some trigger polishing. 125gr jhp+P or 158gr lswchp +p and she is set. Only drawback is capacity, but thats what the Remington 870 is for.

Hud · « **Reply #2 on:** January 04, 2003, 05:54:28 AM »

My wife really likes her Colt Detective Special in 38 spec. Hers has the underlug shroud on the barrel, and it has a bobbed hammer. This she carries or has by the bed. I don't think she could handle a 357 in a snubby as she doesn't like shooting mine in the larger frames.

She also has a 12ga with 19" barrel, a pistol grip, and a laser dot sight, hid away in the house. This I keep loaded with light trap loads.

I think her shotgun is her first choice if she has time to get it. She's wacked several critters at night with the 12 ga. that were getting into things around the place or bothering our animals.

Hud

ShootnStr8 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 04, 2003, 05:59:00 AM »

Larry,

I've got to agree with Myronman3. A shotgun is not only my first choice for my wife but for myself as well. I think a shotgun makes the most sense for those of us who have no formal training in handling a handgun in a crisis situation.

When it comes to learning how to shoot a handgun, I believe the good ole .22 is the place to begin. A standard size .357 using 38s is a nice next step.

Blessings!

ShootnStr8

Hud · « **Reply #4 on:** January 04, 2003, 06:19:12 AM »

>A shotgun is not only my first choice for my
>wife but for myself as well.

Yea, I have to agree, if I have to step outside at night to see what the trouble is, I usually grab the old double barrel 12.

But for "carrying" I have given up my beloved revolvers and gone to a Ruger 9mm spray and pray. I like it because it is thinner. I got the one that doesn't have any saftey so in that sense it works like a revolver.

Hud

Loader 3009 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 04, 2003, 12:39:02 PM »

You're on the right track, Larry but knowing women like I do, I think I would choose one that I wouldn't mind being shot with.

myronman3 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 04, 2003, 12:50:39 PM »

the person with a shotgun has a distinct advantage over someone with another weapon, especially a pistol. 3 years as a airborne ranger and in a close combat scenario, my first choice is a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with 00 buck. each pellet is equal to a 357 slug and with each shot you have about 12-15 pellets. multiply that by how ever many you have in the tube and you will see the beauty of the shotgun. now consider that you dont have to be very precise with your aiming and that pellets dont penetrate walls so good ( a big consideration if you have a family ). there are some situations where a handgun is more practical than a shotgun, but home protection isnt one of them. i also doubt very many people are going to out shoot anyone while using a snubby 38. say what you want, but i aint going to believe that until i see it in person.

Holiday · « **Reply #7 on:** January 04, 2003, 12:50:42 PM »

I would go with any good .38 revolver stoked with +p hollow points. The shot gun is a devistating weapon, but the average woman is afraid of the big thing. Also, the larger weapon would be easier to snatch away from her, especially if she is scared of it and holding it like it might bite her(which it dang well might!). That's why I have a nice S&W model 10 for my honey. She feels more comfortable with it and the recoil won't hurt her like my Winchester Defender 12 guage will.

Paladin · « **Reply #8 on:** January 04, 2003, 01:06:33 PM »

My wife has a 6 inch ruger 357, also a mossburg pump .410 with a spreader choke loaded with 6-3 inchers loaded with #6 shot. ever shot anybody?

securitysix · « **Reply #9 on:** January 06, 2003, 07:03:01 AM »

I'd have to agree with Paladin on the Mossy .410 pump gun, but I'd recommend stoking it with #4 shot if it will pattern it well.

For a handgun, Ruger's Security-Six or GP-100 series would be good candidates. The 6" variants would be preferable if she's not going to carry them as the longer barrel will help eat up some of the recoil. While I have never shot any through either of mine, they should both handle .38 Specials well. With full power loads (fun, he he), the GP is more pleasant to shoot, IMHO (mine is 6" full lug) than the Security-Six.

The truth of the matter, though, is that while revolvers are easy to use, some women just don't like them. They are loud (muzzle blast and blast from barrel/cylinder gap), DA trigger pull is often heavy, and capacity is limited. Automatics have better capacity, aren't as loud (usually, but .357 Sig is a good exception here), and can be fired a little faster by the average person if necessary. What you need to do is take your wife out and let her shoot a little of everything. Borrow guns from friends if you have to, rent them from the range if possible, and let her decide what she likes. Remember, she has to be comfortable with it because she is the one that is going to have to use it if/when the time comes. If it is not something she is comfortable with, she will not pick it up, or if she does, she will be less likely to use it if it is needed.

Let her pick out her handgun, find a good pump or semi-auto shotgun that she can handle well (youth model if she is petite), then get her to practice with both until she is comfortable with either. Then get her in the state of mind that the shotgun is the preferred weapon and that the handgun is only if nothing else is immediately on hand. Adding some sort of a rifle or carbine (M1 Carbine, Ruger Mini-14, or Ruger PC4/9) to the mix may help. If she decides on a 9mm or .40 S&W Ruger, a PC9 or PC4 would be ideal because they use the same magazines as the Ruger pistols.

Mikey · « **Reply #10 on:** January 06, 2003, 08:38:30 AM »

You have to go with what she is comfortable with. If she, like some of the other ladies, is comfortable with a short barreled handgun, and she can be taught properly, especially with good hearing protection and light loads, then head in that direction.

Shotguns don't come problem free. The muzzle blast and recoil are fearsome, even with light birdshot loads, for a small woman. Another thing most people forget about is that you have to be pretty accurate with a shotgun. Most I have shot out to 15-20 yards or so retain fairly tight patterns, not the 'spray' that most folks expect from a scattergun.

I've seen my hunting buddies miss turkeys, while going for head/neck shots, at 20 yards because their patterns were too tight or, they didn't know how tight the pattersn were.

The truth is that no weapon you purchase for your wife for home defense will be the only answer. She, and you by her side, have to practice with whatever it is until she is both comfortable and confident with it.

Believe it or not, something like a snubbie, with grips that fit her hand, and light loads like wadcutters, may be a great introduction to firearms for her and start her in the right direction. My wife went through the shotgun business (too loud and too much recoil), to the 357 (too much bark) to the 38 snubbie (loved it with wadcutters) to her Beretta 21A (with which she could skip cans). I have always felt that a gal who can skip cans with a 22 is better off than one who cannot hit with a 38. And since someone bent on harm does not consider bore size as a deterrent, hot lead is all that talks and the more they get the less likey they will be to continue with their current choice of occupation. Here is where 7 rounds of 22 solid into the body mass does better than 6 rounds of 38 through the wall.

Just my 2 cents worth. Mikey.

dakotashooter2 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 08, 2003, 08:05:04 AM »

I hear a lot of support for the shotgun but I think many people forget that you are most likely taking shots within the confines of a room, generally 12' or less. Have you ever patterned any shotgun at 12 feet. It is definatly devistating because of the tight pattern but in that situation is probably no more accurate than a handgun. I also think that women are more reluctant to shoot than most men thus allowing an assailant closer and a better opportunity to disarm them, especially with a longer weapon such as a shotgun. On the plus side the shotgun can have a psycological advantage on an assailant over a handgun but I question how significant that is. Though a shotgun is a short range weapon I don't necessarily agree that it is a tight quarters weapon. As far as fire power........ revolver-5-6 rnds, semi auto 7-18 rnds, shotgun 5-8 rnds.

KING · « **Reply #12 on:** January 08, 2003, 05:54:01 PM »

I think a lot of us kinda miss the point of women in general. We have this testosterone that tells us that we be stronger than them. Any of us ever witn an argument with one. Nuff said on that point. As fer a shotgun fer females,it is the best that any of us can have in a CQB type situation A side by side is the best because it is the simplest to teach one that is unfamiliar with firearms to use. Open bbl,insert two rounds,close bbl,take off saftey,point and shoot. Well,maybe a single shot is easierbut then again it is only one round,and they might need two. We kinda ferget,that a shotgun does not have one projectile. I dont recommend buckshot fer a residential protection type arm that is used inside of a residence,but do recommend #4 shot. It is devastating out to about 15 yards,but we are talking an average of 5 yards. At five yards,the spread with average 5 inches regardless of shot used. That is out of an 18.5 inch bbl shotgun. One round will give an average of 150 #4 shot into that five inch cyrcle. Two shots would give roughly 300 of them little critters goin into the bad guy. There aint a handgun around that can match that my friends. That shot harge will stay together and go almost all the way through a bad guy at that range. The other thing is that she is going to probalby be so scared she wont even know the gun went off untill the bad guy hits the ground,or wall,or wall,cealing,floor,,,etc. The other thing that some may miss that if a female has been targeted,it will be a planned situation on the acters part most of the time. The psych effect of a two holler at that distance make for a very one sided conversation. The one with the gun,is the only one talking. I cheap two holer is geat insurance. Teach em to put the butt stock under thier arm,and tight to thier side.,left hand guide the barrel to target location,and the right hand triggers the round. The should also be taught that there is a point of no return. Once the bad guy is over that line,he is to be shot,center of mass,twice. Reload right away,and repeat if necessary with another acter. I always taught if they are at the bedroom door,that is the point of no return ,and that distance is an average of 2 to 4 yards....If they cant get close,they cant get the gun away. A handgun under the pillow is ok,but,she will have to have far more training in order to act properly. And she will react,providing that she has benn trained Im a little over 6 feet,and weigh in around 270.I also was a power lifter for 16 years,so im kinda not a small individual. I have been around a long time and know that size has its advantages,but,not all the time. When I have trouble,the first thing I grab is my pump shotgun with 12 rounds,then my glock,then my flashlight to see what the dogs are raising hell about. We should not ever underestimate a female becasue of her gender in her ability to handle a firearm,but they do have to be trained,just like us testosterone type guys do, ya know....Also at the first sign of something going wrong,dont ferget to dial 911,and dont hang up the phone. It is real usefull in court if the bad guy had a friend that said he was not where he was shot at. Her screaming dont come in here,and he does,is good insurance that she shot in the protection of her own life. Also that load of #4 shot will most likely not go into the next room after going through a wallto kill or injure one of the kids that might be there. The might get a couple owies,but not a 158gr one. Stay safe King. Also run her through a drill dooing this seerl times. And have her play it ovver in her head also. Then she will react the way she has learned. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: King

jhalcott · « **Reply #13 on:** January 10, 2003, 06:04:36 PM »

How many of you guys have shot at a simulated wall with a shotgun? We found out that a trap load will penetrate 6( SIX) Interior home walls.The walls were a single layer of gypsum board on each side of a 2"x4" frame set 10 feet apart in a straight line.Yes, the pattern got larger as the distance increased.The shot may have been # 6 ,not 8's ,CRS ya know. I'd still rather my wife used a shotgun instead of a pistol for home defense.
Imagine the effect that sound of racking in a shell has on the bad guy!
might even have to clean the rug :oops: jh

brownsfan · « **Reply #14 on:** January 14, 2003, 03:01:21 PM »

I would recommend a Smith & Wesson hammerless revolver.
Check out the Model 642LS (Ladysmith) and then load it with .38 (+p) hollowpoints.
Low maintenance, snag free, simple to operate, and always ready to go.

Macho "house guys" can go with the regular S&W Model 642.

These guns are easy to shoot and are accurate.

Additionally, both models make great carry guns for those with permits.

TCShooter · « **Reply #15 on:** January 16, 2003, 06:00:43 AM »

King, great post above. Thanks for the insite.

dragthewaters · « **Reply #16 on:** February 22, 2003, 04:35:03 PM »

well, i would say revolver, but not an automatic, because of simplicity, but that is for a pistol, and if the woman can hit the target, i would say shotgun as long as she can handle the recoil, it will be hard to miss

I am CAL......... · « **Reply #17 on:** February 23, 2003, 04:03:25 PM »

I hope your wife never has to use a gun for protection .If the need should arise though,I think King has the best idea.He and I must think alike cause when tha dog starts to bark I get ready too myself. I reload a lots and shoot a lots of handgun and rifle but when things might go wrong I will take a shotgun any day over any kind of weapon. The destruction capacity for a shot gun with the right charge is unmatched.I have done a lot more than most to come to this conclusion. I have shot junk autos,trucks,and unoccupied houses on the farm just to see what to expect and what kind of damage it will do. I don't know of anything thats legal that can compare.Besides, when the bad guy looks down those barrels he don't see a tomb stone.That guy will see a whole graveyard and she might not have to use it. These are just my thoughts,nothing written in stone! I wish for everyone to stay safe. I am CAL.......

dragthewaters · « **Reply #18 on:** February 23, 2003, 04:06:28 PM »

actualty i was at my local range today and there was a ton of women there shooting .357's, .45 glocks, .22 match pistols, everything and they were hitting the mark

KING · « **Reply #19 on:** February 23, 2003, 06:41:42 PM »

Dragthewaters: What you have to realize is that if you are shooting at a range,that is a controlled situation. When you wake up in the night due to ..whatever..it is not a controlled situation. It is something that needs little thought at the original stage. This is where training comes in.. No training,no proper reaction. Anyone can stand on thier hand legs and hit a target with a handgun a close range. Gender is not relivant to it. But.,having something jump up(situation) without any prior knowledge of it going to occure is to be set up for failure. in ref to that situation. I always taught that you ,in order to react without thought,is tp practice a draw with an unloaded weapon at the least amount in the order of 3000 attempts. When you get to that number a little item comes into play called " muscle memory",and an external stimulus will cause that to come into playvertually instantly without concsious thought. That is where you want to be. Now,back to the weapon. When a stress situation occures,the less actions that you have to do to put yourself in to a high protection or repel of threat mode,the better. A side by side,tucked into the armpit has vetually no recoil. As a mater of information. The shootings that I have direct knowledge of where there was a shooting by a homeowner inside of thier residence with the highest take out of the bad guy involved a shotgun. Not a handgun. I can name two or three in the last four years where a handgun saved the day,but the scale will always point to a shotgun for terminating a close range threat situation.,where the badguy did not get any closer that 10 feet to the shooter. If he is inside of that ten foot range,and a handgun is used,there is probably going to be some physical contact with the shooter and the acter. We do not want any contact between the two of a physical nature. Last year an older lady punched the ticket onna badguy that entered into her bedroom,and she had had physical contact with him,and a handgun was used that inturn killed the badguy,she fired five or six times,with four making contact with the shortly to be deceased rapist. But,I know of more,where the homeowner was properly trained with that two holer that really shortened the confrontation. I would have the shotgun next to the bed,and the handgun under the pillow,but the shotun is always going to be first. And you have to remember. I was a cop for 32 years,and a firearms instructer,which means somewhere there probably is some practical knowledge instead of not ,involved in the why and what of things. Stay safe...king

williamlayton · « **Reply #20 on:** February 24, 2003, 01:46:03 AM »

i have read these post and thought about it a lot--well i thought about it a long time ago. what we use is an old .410 pump. never had to use it but it stands ready. if i had to awake in the groggy condition i am normally in it's pretty simple, staight forward and lightweight.
blessings

chk · « **Reply #21 on:** February 24, 2003, 02:49:05 AM »

I got my wife a S&W 640 chambered for .357. I steered her away from the airweight 642 since the all steel model won't kick as much with .38 loads. She carries it in a fanny pack holster or her purse. For a house pistol we have a 4" barreled Rossi stainless .357 with .38 Magsafe loads. A DA revolver is as simple as it gets.She needs to practice with it. Make up some snap caps by resizing the brass and filling the primer pockets with silicone caulk. Practice dry firing with an empty shell casing on the barrel to get used to a smooth trigger pull. When you can dry fire 6 times without shaking the case off the barrel you're getting a good trigger pull. A shotgun is great but not as practical overall. A firearm should be the last line of defence. Having to load at that point is behind the power curve.

Siskiyou · « **Reply #22 on:** February 24, 2003, 07:26:15 AM »

Having taught a number of women to shot it is hard to beat a S&W K frame. The round should be a 158 semi wadcutter. The key is training in the 3 to 12 yard range. Unless she ask do not go for the .357. I would rather have a trained individual then one that is more scared of their weapon then the intruder. I suggest going to a range that rents handguns. Have her try a few different ones. You could be saving money in the long run.

As brought up earlier gun retention training is very important, safe storage, and the rules of engagement. In the late 1930's my mother used a home protection weapon. Dad went to work at 5 a.m. around 6. a.m. she woke-up and there was a strange man standing in the doorway to their bedroom. She fired one round from a Colt chamber for the old .41 Long Colt round. The bullet hit the door frame and the intruder left town.

I was in a local gunshop when a man and a woman in their 30's entered. With them was an older woman. Their mother. Dad had just passed away and they wanted to buy a home protection handgun for mom. For trade they had a S&W 4 inch K-frame, Model 10 in the factory box. The gun look brand new. It had belonged to dad who was a retired LAPD officer. It was a personnel gun, not a duty weapon.

The owner of the gun shop told them that he would like to make a deal, but he recommend that they buy some ammunition and take the gun they already had and practice with it. He recommended a local indoor range and an instructor there. He said that he had a number of guns that he could sell them, but none better for her.

One of the things men over look when buying a home self defense weapon for their wife is there own ego.(What they want, not what she needs) A shotgun is nice, but are you willing to cut down the stock of a new shotgun for your wife. When somebody suggest a certain shot size because of a better pattern for home defense, it tells me that they not have much training in the use of a shotgun for self-defense. A Rule of Thumb is the pattern will open one inch per yard. At nine feet you will have a mass of shot three inches in diameter. Shotguns are very difficult to handle in tight quarters. Entry teams train with their weapons in life like surroundings. Walk the hallway in your house, do you have room to deploy a shotgun. A shotgun from a fix position in a bedroom is a good option. But what if the lady of the house has to move to the kids bedrooms. Can she handle kids and a shotgun at the sametime. Think tactics. Have a plan, know how to execute the plan. The plan maybe different for each household.

Remember if she goes on the offense with a weapon you maybe visiting her in jail. If somebody enters the home, retreats to the street at the sight of a weapon the suspect most likely is not fair game. The good lady goes to jail if she pops him because he is no longer an immediate threat.

Siskiyou

myronman3 · « **Reply #23 on:** February 24, 2003, 02:04:31 PM »

at close range. some have implied that it is ineffective. WRONG! grandpa killed a black bear with a shotshell once upon a time. it is devastating at close range. one other thing guys, show me a person that is less accurate with a long gun than with a pistol. i havent met one. anyone who would choose a pistol over a shotgun in a m.o.u.t. situation is a fool.

I am CAL......... · « **Reply #24 on:** February 24, 2003, 02:11:00 PM »

Siskiyou, I guess we could argue this point forever.I do respect your thoughts but disagree.A shotgun with a 18 ins.barrel is not a lots bigger than some handguns.With an open bore and the correct load it is pure distruction. As far as my wife in jail,I most likely can get her out .I can't get her out of the graveyard. I don't know where you are but this is South Georgia. Down here in Redneck country,the general acceptance is to shoot first and discuss it later. Now,we live in the middle of a hundred acre tract of land.Nobody is going to accidently stumble into my house. If they do,they best knock. My closest neighbor is 3/4 of a mile and they are kinfolks. My thoughts on this might not be for everyone,and didn't say it was. My wish would be for nobody to ever have to shoot anyone. Just my thoughts,stay safe and good luck. I am CAL......

myronman3 · « **Reply #25 on:** February 24, 2003, 02:24:12 PM »

i couldn agree more with CAL on your second to last statement about hoping no-one would ever have to shoot anyone. i would like to state that when i reply to these posts, it is not to stir up fear or to wish for a bad situation to occur. not to me, not to anyone. stay safe all.

TopGun · « **Reply #26 on:** February 24, 2003, 02:55:17 PM »

I have to go along with King. My wife shoots alot--38's and 357's and 9mm. She is great at the range when she's not under the stress of being awakened by a sound in the dead of night. What do we practice 'night emergency' with--an old, but nice Remington M10 12ga riot gun--there are 3-- 2 3/4" #4 bird shot (Turkey load) in the tube. She practices pushing the button and racking the slide for a shell. That in itself is a heart-stopping sound! We have loaded revolvers around, I usually carry my Walther p99 even in the house and it's near us at night. The 12ga Riot is first defense! With the Walther, all I have to do is pull the trigger, but the 20" 12ga makes me fell warm and fuzzy knowing I have 3 quick shots before I have to dump my Hi-cap 9mm. The neighbors are safe too. The shot will not carry across the street and through a house. Being awakened in the dead of night is a scary thing--it happened to us one time, a hot summer night a few years ago, I heard the guy stumble over our picnic table and was working on the back door--he was half-way in when I turned the light on--he was unarmed but he was looking at my M1200 Riot (sorry, there is a place for these guns in my home), and he was scared S&#tless!! He layed down right there and waited on the police to come. He BEGGED me not to shoot. Yes, I was scared too, but I had teh gun! Haven't seen nor heard from him since. He told the police he was looking for a phone---DUHHH, every try knocking? I think a handgun would've worked, but my wife was at the top of the steps with it. I vote Go with a good Riot gun or the S/S in any ga.

jerry6stl · « **Reply #27 on:** February 26, 2003, 08:35:16 AM »

My opinion is that the best home defense gun is a .38 Special 4" S&W Model 10 (formerly military & police Model), or the Similar Colt Official Police. 6 shots are enough!

Particularly suitable for a non-shooter spouse since there isn't any clip or safety to confuse the neophyte. These are a good value in the $200 to $250 range and use common ammo that has ample power. Practice with low cost reduced power .38 wadcutters.

JERRY

redfred · « **Reply #28 on:** March 09, 2003, 02:21:19 AM »

Hey gang my 2 cents worth, Most females are leary of shooting a person. Even in life threating conditions. For this reason a short barrled gun is what they need. (unless they shoot all the time and had the back bone of a griz, then a 454 casull would be in order) Fact! most ladys fire when its to late. A short barreled pistol is hard to grab and take away. (not much barrel to grab). When the intruder grabs said pistol at least they will loose a finger or get a real palm burner. Most of the time when the barrel is grabbed is when the trigger is finally pulled. I started my wife out with a S&W mod. 19 357mag. With lite loads of 38's. But when in carry or laying next to the bed position its loaded with full scale 357mag hollow point. A revolver is easyer to learn. Just load cylinder and pull trigger! No safetys, no mags to worry about, and no racking the slide to chamber! Ladies are the kinder side of us, we are the ass holes!!!!!!! REDFRED

Hud · « **Reply #29 on:** March 09, 2003, 03:43:54 AM »

RedFred,
Obviously you haven't run into my "Little Princess" in a dark ally. :twisted: She would not hesitate to pull the trigger if the situation so required it. Her red hair and, partial Irish background, and her name Marcia (warrior) may have somthing to do with her attitude about such things. Anyway she does have confidence in her ability to use her Colt Dect. Spec., so that is what she carries.

I would prefer she carried a auto with no saftey such as a Ruger DC95.
The down side to that paticular gun for her is it is too big for her small hands. The Colt she can get a firm grip on.

I realize that most attackers are non-profesional, but an attacker that knows what he is doing can grab a revolver by the cylinder and keep it from fireing, or get a finger in between the hammer and gun. Some autos too can be kept from firing by holding the slide back a little, but this would be much harder for an attacker to do.

And I know that if these things are happening, you have waited too long to shoot, but things do happen fast and sometimes a attacker is closer than what he should be before we react.

Hud