Author Topic: I have a conundrum (Read 1897 times)

Graybeard · « **on:** August 17, 2021, 02:59:34 AM »

I cannot find .280 Remington brass for my rifle. I have some but not nearly enough.

So I have decided to make some from a sister/brother round from the same series. In my case I chose .270 Winchester for minimal case differences.

So the problem.

1. When I size and trim proper headstamp .280 brass and chamber them in my rifle (Remington 700 CDL SF Limited Edition rifle) it extracts and ejects properly.

2. When I form cases from .30-06 cases and size/trim they also extract and eject fine.

3. When I form cases from the .270 Winchester brass and then size/trim they will not extract or eject. The case is not being grabbed and pulled out.

I'm racking my brain over this. I've verified dimensions with calipers and looked and I see no reason for this.

Any of you experience loaders see something I'm missing here?

BUGEYE · « **Reply #1 on:** August 17, 2021, 03:59:43 AM »

I did some reloading back in the 60s and the only possible problem I can think of is, the shoulder on the .270 brass is getting pushed back.
But, since you measured everything, that shoots down my theory.

Dee · « **Reply #2 on:** August 17, 2021, 05:20:31 AM »

Are they chambering easily? If not, the case neck may be too thick, and are all the 270 cases out of the same lot? This many times will cause the neck to stretch as the brass is pulled out of the resize die.
Also, I use a black sharpie on the case from about halfway up, and chamber to see if that will show you where the problem is.

Mule 11 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 17, 2021, 05:22:10 AM »

I think you are on to it bugeye. The shoulder is moved forward a bit on the 280 rem to keep it from being inadvertently loaded in the 270. I wasn’t going to chime in as I figure there are more experienced reloader’s here.

Graybeard · « **Reply #4 on:** August 17, 2021, 09:14:57 AM »

Yeah I took a nap and thought on this some and I think the issue is the shoulder on the .270 and .280 are not in the same place. All looks good and all measurements I took were good but I haven't actually tried to measure the case head to shoulder measurement yet.

All cases chamber with ease, they just aren't being grabbed by the bolt head to pull them out. That most likely means headspace is excessive.

When I go back out I'm gonna run one into the .30-06 die and then into the .280 die and see what if any difference that makes.

I might have to abandon the plan to use .270 brass. It is just impossible to find .280 brass now so I had hoped to be able to use .270.

Mule 11 · « **Reply #5 on:** August 17, 2021, 09:40:08 AM »

I think you will have to fire form the brass to move the shoulder forward if that is the issue.

Buckskin · « **Reply #6 on:** August 17, 2021, 09:57:24 AM »

I don't know if they actually have it but I could put it in a cart...

https://store.prophetriver.com/hornady-280-rem-unprimed-brass-50ct-8638/

Graybeard · « **Reply #7 on:** August 17, 2021, 10:40:35 AM »

Quote from: Buckskin on August 17, 2021, 09:57:24 AM

I don't know if they actually have it but I could put it in a cart...

https://store.prophetriver.com/hornady-280-rem-unprimed-brass-50ct-8638/

Thanks. They are in Canada so I don't think they can ship to me here in the US. I did ask them via e-mail if they can. I found those previously in my search but since they were in Canada didn't try to buy them.

Graybeard · « **Reply #8 on:** August 17, 2021, 10:49:43 AM »

I ran an experiment earlier.

I loaded one round of .280 brass with a middle of the road load of 46.5 grains of AA4350 and a Remington 150 PSP bullet seated to the cannelure.

I also loaded one round made from a .30-06 case and one made from a .270 case first necked up to .30-06 and then down to .280.

Both of those had a pronounced false shoulder on the neck of case much like when forming 7-30 Waters from .30-30 brass.

Both fit into chamber fine and ejected with no issues.

So I took all 3 rounds up to my range and fired them at a steel plate at 100 yards distance from shooting bench. So far as I could see thru the scope the 3 marks on the steel target seem to hit to same point of impact. I'd bet money if you measured the group would be no more than an inch.

All 3 cases ejected the same, no tightness or difficulty at all. I brought all 3 back to my reloading room and cleaned them up with 0000 steel wool and examined them closely. All appear identical now. As best as I can measure with calipers all have identical measures to all points on the cases.

From this I deduce I can make .280 cases from either .270 or .30-06 cases but if I do so they will require a fire forming. With the shortage of bullets, powder and primers these days I am a bit reluctant to do it that way. I hate to use my limited supply of all three components to fire form cases. Tho admittedly that load sure seemed accurate enough and since I no longer hunt and only pop targets on my range perhaps that doesn't really matter.

Graybeard · « **Reply #9 on:** August 17, 2021, 11:54:42 AM »

I set up an account with those folks in Canada and tried to order the brass online but couldn't make it happen. Called them on phone and it is on the way to me. Thanks for the heads up on them.

I had forgotten about seeing the brass there and figured I couldn't buy it from Canada but you can buy brass from there, but not loaded ammo, primers, or powder.

So I have 100 Hornady proper .280 cases in route to me.

Buckskin · « **Reply #10 on:** August 18, 2021, 04:54:59 AM »

Excellent, glad it worked out! My unicorn has been 6.5 140 grain Accubonds. I have about 40 bullets left, so good for several years the way my daughter has been shooting the rifle. One shot, one kill for her first three years, but I really would like to find a few boxes for reserve.

FYI, that link isn't working for me anymore, maybe you cleaned them out!

Graybeard · « **Reply #11 on:** August 18, 2021, 05:23:50 AM »

Yup I bought what they had in stock.

Graybeard · « **Reply #12 on:** August 18, 2021, 05:27:03 AM »

Here is the closest I can come for ya on the 6.5 bullets. These are 150s rather than 140s.

https://www.shootersproshop.com/loading-reloading-bullets/nosler-6-5mm-150-grain-accubond-long-range-blem-100ct.html

Buckskin · « **Reply #13 on:** August 18, 2021, 07:46:53 AM »

Thanks for looking for me. I do have a box of those and Hornady A-Tip if push comes to shove I will use them on deer, but they fragment like a Berger or target bullet and I prefer to use salt and pepper instead of lead for seasoning my venison.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #14 on:** August 19, 2021, 01:02:32 AM »

bill if your still in need i can probably part with 50 or so once fired.

Graybeard · « **Reply #15 on:** August 19, 2021, 01:45:19 AM »

Thanks Lloyd, I now have 100 new Hornady brand cases on the way to me from Canada. So when they get here I'll be OK.

I'd certainly buy some more if I find them no doubt. I normally like to have several hundred cases for each rifle. To that end I'm shorter on both .280 Remington and .257 Whby cases than I'd prefer to be.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #16 on:** August 19, 2021, 03:20:34 AM »

ill have to look bill. I might have some 257wby too and i dont have a gun anymore. Give me a day or so to check.

Graybeard · « **Reply #17 on:** August 19, 2021, 06:02:44 AM »

Thanks Lloyd, I reckon my .257 would be my last to go.

Matt has already laid claim to my .280, he has had it on loan for the last several years and I took it back to do some shooting and load development work with it. But ultimately it will be his when I'm done using it.

His youngest son Wyatt, now 14, will likely get my .257 Whby, but he's gonna hafta wait until I'm dead to get it.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #18 on:** August 19, 2021, 08:47:12 PM »

ive had two. A vanguard and a cdl. Got rid of the vanguard on a trade for a mark V in 240wby. That ones a sweetheart. I love that short action and its a matte blued classic stocked gun and ive never seen another in 240.
I talked myself into letting the cdl go trading on my custom 2506 i had let go years ago and wanted back. Was planning on getting one this year but availability is scarce and a 6.5x300wby came my way and i had LOTS of 300wby brass and its about the easiest wby brass to find. I got rid of my 7stw a few years ago and this one is about the same ballisticaly and a tad more then the 257. Ive got a pile of flat shooting bolt guns. Getting to the point im getting up there in age and my partners health isnt great and i dont know how many more years we will do crop damage shooting and to be truthful if its down to just hunting at camp i can do that with a 3030 or one of my 300 black outs. LONG shot there is a 100 yards and most of them half that. So I pretty much told myself no more bolt guns. Ive got so many that most have only shot a few deer anyway. I usually get 5 ready every year to rotate. Shoot maybe 10 deer with one then move on. So its time to go back and start over with the guns i already have. But thats not saying if a good deal on a 257 came along I wouldnt buy it. Its about the only hole i have in my want list for bolt guns.

Quote from: Graybeard on August 19, 2021, 06:02:44 AM

Thanks Lloyd, I reckon my .257 would be my last to go.

Matt has already laid claim to my .280, he has had it on loan for the last several years and I took it back to do some shooting and load development work with it. But ultimately it will be his when I'm done using it.

His youngest son Wyatt, now 14, will likely get my .257 Whby, but he's gonna hafta wait until I'm dead to get it.

Graybeard · « **Reply #19 on:** August 20, 2021, 02:35:28 AM »

I was looking online for rifles earlier this week and ran across a Remington 700 Mountain Rifle in .280. I sure was tempted by it but that $1200 price tag on a used gun kept me away.

It is what I wanted originally back when I got my first Mountain rifle I guess that was back in the early 80s. The guy only had them in .30-06 and .270 and was going out of business so wouldn't order me a .280. I settled for the .270 but ever since have longed for one in .280. I don't need it as my current .280 is a limited edition CDL Stainless Fluted model and shoots very nicely.

Still that urge for a .280 Mountain rifle is strong.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #20 on:** August 20, 2021, 03:05:07 AM »

mines 280 13a control round fed featherweight win 70 with EXCEPTIONAL wood. Could pass for a super grade. That one will never leave the house. Its not only beautiful but its an exceptional shooter too. i had a push feed 700 in 280 that wasnt that great of a shooter, a blued wood mountain rifle that although wasnt an exceptional shooter id love to get it back and a #1b that was an absolute tack driver. One of the more accurate guns ive owned but it was just so heavy to tote around that i didnt warm up to it. Got rid of that mountain rifle during a divorce when i had to raise money to pay off the wife. Sold about 20 guns and theres a few of them id like to get back but dont remember who localy bought them. 4 more id like to get back are a 20 and 12 bps upland special and a 20 and 12 rem speical field. Cant find any of them anywhere anymore. Couple more id like back are two rugers. At 257 roberts RL and a 243 #1 rsi. Add to that another #1b in 2506. Those were just the ones that really hurt. Many more left the house. Did i tell you i HATE my ex wife!!

Graybeard · « **Reply #21 on:** August 20, 2021, 04:22:20 AM »

Quote

Did i tell you i HATE my ex wife!!

Yeah I think I might have heard that from you.

Buckskin · « **Reply #22 on:** August 20, 2021, 04:28:36 AM »

When you say, the Win 70 featherweight will never leave the house, I hope you mean you will never sell it and not that you literally won't take it out of the house and hunt with it!

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #23 on:** August 22, 2021, 11:45:50 PM »

amazing after 25 years being divorced if anything i hater her more. I know its not the christian way to deal with her but she is just such a pos. I told my wife (the one i have now) that if they had one of those purge things like in the movies id be set up with 15 guns and enough ammo to chew her and her house to dust. I like to think im half way intelligent but then i have to factor that i married and that throws me right down with the dumbest sobs in the world. d

Quote from: Graybeard on August 20, 2021, 04:22:20 AM

Quote
Did i tell you i HATE my ex wife!!

Yeah I think I might have heard that from you.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #24 on:** August 22, 2021, 11:51:00 PM »

nope. It is the first gun im going to use when we get the call to go to the farm. Ive got my old 06 featherweight ready for this year too. I like to get 5 or 6 guns ready and rotate them. It gives me real world testing of calibers and different bullets used in them. This year its the two featherweights, my ar15 300 hammer, a 7 mag weatherby vanguard, a rem 700 classic in 8/57 and another vauguard in 6.5-300wby

Quote from: Buckskin on August 20, 2021, 04:28:36 AM

When you say, the Win 70 featherweight will never leave the house, I hope you mean you will never sell it and not that you literally won't take it out of the house and hunt with it!

Buckskin · « **Reply #25 on:** August 23, 2021, 03:50:48 AM »

30calflash · « **Reply #26 on:** August 23, 2021, 03:57:04 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard on August 18, 2021, 05:27:03 AM

Here is the closest I can come for ya on the 6.5 bullets. These are 150s rather than 140s.

https://www.shootersproshop.com/loading-reloading-bullets/nosler-6-5mm-150-grain-accubond-long-range-blem-100ct.html

The above link is a good one. Get on their email and they notify you a few times a week when they have stock. It varies quickly and constantly. Their specialty is Nosler blems and a good price reduction.

Buckskin · « **Reply #27 on:** August 23, 2021, 04:58:41 AM »

Thanks, I got on their list for what I'm looking for!

DEACONLLB · « **Reply #28 on:** September 10, 2021, 08:30:06 AM »

Bill Sleeping Giant Brass .com is a good place to buy brass both new and used but I checked and they are out on 280 Rem. I will keep an I out in my area.

Deaconllb

Drilling Man · « **Reply #29 on:** September 10, 2021, 03:04:23 PM »

I've made a few hundred 280's from 270's, but I always fireform them without a bullet to form them...

Then I load them and shoot them normally.

DM