are we having fun yet

[Lloyd Smale]

4 inch 500 full tilt.

[Mule 11]

Is that a customized vaquero?

[Lloyd Smale]

vaquero done by dustin linebaugh. 4 inch oct barrel, case hardened frame hammer and trigger with round butted bisley grip frame. Stainless one is a 4 inch 500 John built. First 4 inch gun he ever did.

[Lloyd Smale]

heres my other 500. A 4 5/8s gun John built. I won that gun at the linebaugh seminar. Same day i picked up my completed stainless one above. Had a 5.5 inch 475 and one other 5.5 inch 500

[pastorp]

That used to be fun to me too. But that kind of recoil hurts at my age now. I owned 4 freedom arms 454s, and several other big bores. 2 -50 Alaskans. One built by Jim West and one by Noneman. Those were fun days. But about the biggest caliber I can shoot anymore is 38+P.

I’ve found that a AR15 with a 55gr hornady soft point will kill deer all day long at the ranges I shoot nowdays. And it don’t hurt me to shoot them.

My turkey gun is a Steven’s single shot 410, with federal TSS shells red dot sight. And head shots, kills them out to 50 yards. And it don’t hurt to shoot it.

[BUGEYE]

If you miss the first shot, that grizzly will be all over you before the gun comes down from recoil.

[Mule 11]

Those are some beauty’s Lloyd.

[Lloyd Smale]

i have to admit i rarely shoot them cranked up anymore. I usually use loads that go around 1100 fps out of them. The bigger loads dont hurt a guy but they can if you dont pay attention. Ive put the sight blade into my forehead a few times working up loads and got lax and didnt have a firm grip. But really, if you can handle a 454 the 500 isnt much worse unless you really stand on it. Actually more pleasant to shoot even with full tilt loads because it doesnt have that massive crack a 454 has when its fired. Noise between them is like comparing a 38 special to a 357 with the 454 being the 357. Now the 475 is a bit different. Stand on it and you will have both recoil and the muzzle blast. Id personaly rather shoot a 500 then either the 475 or 454.

That used to be fun to me too. But that kind of recoil hurts at my age now. I owned 4 freedom arms 454s, and several other big bores. 2 -50 Alaskans. One built by Jim West and one by Noneman. Those were fun days. But about the biggest caliber I can shoot anymore is 38+P.

I’ve found that a AR15 with a 55gr hornady soft point will kill deer all day long at the ranges I shoot nowdays. And it don’t hurt me to shoot them.

My turkey gun is a Steven’s single shot 410, with federal TSS shells red dot sight. And head shots, kills them out to 50 yards. And it don’t hurt to shoot it.

[Lloyd Smale]

we had a charging bear target at one linebaugh seminar. It came at you fairly fast from 35 yards. I saw it shot at with about every caliber handgun. Very rarely did anyone get a vitals hit with a second shot and none with a third. Matter of fact 3/4s of the shooters didnt with the first. You stood at 35 with your gun in your holster and your hands over your head and a buzzer went off and you had to draw and shoot. Just the pressure of that cardboard bear coming at you with people watching made most choke. Matter of fact many were afraid to even try it. Now think about the pressure of a 700lb bear coming at you. I shot it twice. Both times made a stopping (central nervous system) shot on the first shot. First round my second shot hit it in the leg and the second round i was so good that you only saw one perfect hole that i must have put tow shots into I chuckle at the walter middy wanabes asking advice on what handgun to carry for bears. I say one that has at least a 20 inch barrel and a but stock with either a load of buckshot or a deep penetrating rifle bullet. Ive shot deer bear pigs and bison with the big guns. The reaction of an animal shot with a 500 and one shot with a 44mag isnt that much different. I once watched a 1000 lb bison shot by my buddy with his 500 right behind the shoulder at 25 yards hunch up and keep eating grass and walking for about 10 yards before realizing she was dead. You have to keep in mind that even with top end loads the linebaughs arent any more powerful then a black powder 4570 load.

If you miss the first shot, that grizzly will be all over you before the gun comes down from recoil.

[BUGEYE]

we had a charging bear target at one linebaugh seminar. It came at you fairly fast from 35 yards. I saw it shot at with about every caliber handgun. Very rarely did anyone get a vitals hit with a second shot and none with a third. Matter of fact 3/4s of the shooters didnt with the first. You stood at 35 with your gun in your holster and your hands over your head and a buzzer went off and you had to draw and shoot. Just the pressure of that cardboard bear coming at you with people watching made most choke. Matter of fact many were afraid to even try it. Now think about the pressure of a 700lb bear coming at you. I shot it twice. Both times made a stopping (central nervous system) shot on the first shot. First round my second shot hit it in the leg and the second round i was so good that you only saw one perfect hole that i must have put tow shots into I chuckle at the walter middy wanabes asking advice on what handgun to carry for bears. I say one that has at least a 20 inch barrel and a but stock with either a load of buckshot or a deep penetrating rifle bullet. Ive shot deer bear pigs and bison with the big guns. The reaction of an animal shot with a 500 and one shot with a 44mag isnt that much different. I once watched a 1000 lb bison shot by my buddy with his 500 right behind the shoulder at 25 yards hunch up and keep eating grass and walking for about 10 yards before realizing she was dead. You have to keep in mind that even with top end loads the linebaughs arent any more powerful then a black powder 4570 load.

If you miss the first shot, that grizzly will be all over you before the gun comes down from recoil.

LOL, two shots, one hole.
I imagine that game could separate the men from the boys.
If, big if, I were to hunt in grizzly country I'd choose a .357 because I've shot those and enjoyed it.
I shot my BILs .44 magnum a few times and got zero enjoyment, thus the reason I'd go with a 357.  I could get comfortable with one of them.
I would NOT shoot anything above 44mag.

[oldandslow]

It is 357 or less for me now. Worn out wrist can't take the strain of anything bigger anymore and the 357 has to be in a heavy gun.

[Dand]

Bugeye - I worked in a Alaska Fish and Game camp once where we had a bear destroying our weir every night. 1973.
So the senior 2 crew staked out the wier.
A smallish very dark bear showed up, figuring it was a black bear, they shot it w a 338 win mag. It died prett quick.
Upon getting better light on the bear it turned out to be a small dark sow brown/ grizzly bear.
One of the guys carried a 357 and with the bear down he put a couple in the neck at maybe 10- 15 yard to see the effect.
Next morning we skinned the bear.
I found the bullets - 158 gr jacketed, up against the neck bones, very sligthly mushroomed.
The bullets had penetrated the think neck hide and about 4, at most 5 inches of neck muscle.
NO damage to the neck bones at all - no cracks or bone damage and not that much damage to the muscle either.
It did not look to me that the 357 would have done much except make the bear mad.
Of course 1973 ammo is nothing compared to today's ammo but still performance was poor.
At minimum, I would want the heavy hard cast 180 grain loads.
Now a chest shot might have been more effective but it wouldn't be a stopper.
The butt stock and 20 inches of barrel is probably a better bet.

[Lloyd Smale]

actually newer 357 ammo is a bit watered down compared to ammo from the 60s and 70s. Same can be said of most factory ammo. Back then there wasnt law suit filed for every time someone farted. If i was around browns or grizzly bears and thought there was even a remote chance id get attacked the gun i carried would start with at least .4 and would be loaded with heavy for caliber hard cast lfns at between 1100-1300fps. You sure wouldnt always have time to pick the perfect place to shoot them and those who claim to be able to stand calmly and precisely place a bullet are people smoking crack. A hard cast lfn will penetrate DEEP! It gives alot better chance of that bullet passing through an organ or something in the central nervous system. Bears are not deer. Even a black bear usually has a more fat a tougher hide and bigger bones. Personaly i wouldnt use a 357 to hunt deer. Ive got better guns for that and if i wouldnt shoot a deer eating apples 25 yards away with a gun id surely never carry it to protect myself from a 800lb bear. Yup someone will post a link to some guide in alaska that uses a 9mm or a 357. I just hope to God if im the hunter the day a bear decides to turn on me that that idiot isnt my guide. Matter of fact im not stupid enough to pay for a hunt with a guide that thinks hes John Wick.   

Bugeye - I worked in a Alaska Fish and Game camp once where we had a bear destroying our weir every night. 1973.
So the senior 2 crew staked out the wier.
A smallish very dark bear showed up, figuring it was a black bear, they shot it w a 338 win mag. It died prett quick.
Upon getting better light on the bear it turned out to be a small dark sow brown/ grizzly bear.
One of the guys carried a 357 and with the bear down he put a couple in the neck at maybe 10- 15 yard to see the effect.
Next morning we skinned the bear.
I found the bullets - 158 gr jacketed, up against the neck bones, very sligthly mushroomed.
The bullets had penetrated the think neck hide and about 4, at most 5 inches of neck muscle.
NO damage to the neck bones at all - no cracks or bone damage and not that much damage to the muscle either.
It did not look to me that the 357 would have done much except make the bear mad.
Of course 1973 ammo is nothing compared to today's ammo but still performance was poor.
At minimum, I would want the heavy hard cast 180 grain loads.
Now a chest shot might have been more effective but it wouldn't be a stopper.
The butt stock and 20 inches of barrel is probably a better bet.

[billy_56081]

actually newer 357 ammo is a bit watered down compared to ammo from the 60s and 70s. Same can be said of most factory ammo. Back then there wasnt law suit filed for every time someone farted. If i was around browns or grizzly bears and thought there was even a remote chance id get attacked the gun i carried would start with at least .4 and would be loaded with heavy for caliber hard cast lfns at between 1100-1300fps. You sure wouldnt always have time to pick the perfect place to shoot them and those who claim to be able to stand calmly and precisely place a bullet are people smoking crack. A hard cast lfn will penetrate DEEP! It gives alot better chance of that bullet passing through an organ or something in the central nervous system. Bears are not deer. Even a black bear usually has a more fat a tougher hide and bigger bones. Personaly i wouldnt use a 357 to hunt deer. Ive got better guns for that and if i wouldnt shoot a deer eating apples 25 yards away with a gun id surely never carry it to protect myself from a 800lb bear. Yup someone will post a link to some guide in alaska that uses a 9mm or a 357. I just hope to God if im the hunter the day a bear decides to turn on me that that idiot isnt my guide. Matter of fact im not stupid enough to pay for a hunt with a guide that thinks hes John Wick.   

Bugeye - I worked in a Alaska Fish and Game camp once where we had a bear destroying our weir every night. 1973.
So the senior 2 crew staked out the wier.
A smallish very dark bear showed up, figuring it was a black bear, they shot it w a 338 win mag. It died prett quick.
Upon getting better light on the bear it turned out to be a small dark sow brown/ grizzly bear.
One of the guys carried a 357 and with the bear down he put a couple in the neck at maybe 10- 15 yard to see the effect.
Next morning we skinned the bear.
I found the bullets - 158 gr jacketed, up against the neck bones, very sligthly mushroomed.
The bullets had penetrated the think neck hide and about 4, at most 5 inches of neck muscle.
NO damage to the neck bones at all - no cracks or bone damage and not that much damage to the muscle either.
It did not look to me that the 357 would have done much except make the bear mad.
Of course 1973 ammo is nothing compared to today's ammo but still performance was poor.
At minimum, I would want the heavy hard cast 180 grain loads.
Now a chest shot might have been more effective but it wouldn't be a stopper.
The butt stock and 20 inches of barrel is probably a better bet.

There is an article where a guide used a 9mm with the Buffalo bore 147 grain hard cast with good results.

[Lloyd Smale]

good results?? Does that mean hes killed a half a dozen charging bears to get a REAL factual opinion of it. Or is it just his opinion?

[billy_56081]

He killed one grizzly attacking his fishing party. The penetration of the bullets was excellent. JD Jones had an issue with a 44 mag being ineffective on a grizzly because he had it loaded with hollow points.

[Lloyd Smale]

buddy and i chased around two cow bison for half a day with 500 linebaughs trying to put them down. One took 3 shots one 5. We were using cast hp 400 grain bullets at around 1200 fps. We were given the bullets by the guy who designed the mold to test. What a failure!! The deepest a bullet went into those bison was about 8 inches. 3 our of the 8 shots barely made it through the hide and 3 were stopped by rib bones! Soured me on using cast hps for anything. I never was fan of jacketed hps for anything but self defense. Give me a kieth or an lfn any day over a hp.

[BUGEYE]

Bugeye - I worked in a Alaska Fish and Game camp once where we had a bear destroying our weir every night. 1973.
So the senior 2 crew staked out the wier.
A smallish very dark bear showed up, figuring it was a black bear, they shot it w a 338 win mag. It died prett quick.
Upon getting better light on the bear it turned out to be a small dark sow brown/ grizzly bear.
One of the guys carried a 357 and with the bear down he put a couple in the neck at maybe 10- 15 yard to see the effect.
Next morning we skinned the bear.
I found the bullets - 158 gr jacketed, up against the neck bones, very sligthly mushroomed.
The bullets had penetrated the think neck hide and about 4, at most 5 inches of neck muscle.
NO damage to the neck bones at all - no cracks or bone damage and not that much damage to the muscle either.
It did not look to me that the 357 would have done much except make the bear mad.
Of course 1973 ammo is nothing compared to today's ammo but still performance was poor.
At minimum, I would want the heavy hard cast 180 grain loads.
Now a chest shot might have been more effective but it wouldn't be a stopper.
The butt stock and 20 inches of barrel is probably a better bet.

Remind me to stay out of Alaska. 

[Ranger99]

Remind me to stay out of Alaska. 

The severe cold would be what I
would be concerned with and not
the wildlife. Like Arnold said in the
movie, if it bleeds we can kill it

[Mule 11]

Remind me to stay out of Alaska. 

The severe cold would be what I
would be concerned with and not
the wildlife. Like Arnold said in the
movie, if it bleeds we can kill it

He also said when it comes to wearing a mask and getting jabbed. “ screw your freedom”
What a dik...

[BUGEYE]

Remind me to stay out of Alaska. 

The severe cold would be what I
would be concerned with and not
the wildlife.

Yeah, when it drops below 60 I hibernate.

[Mule 11]

Remind me to stay out of Alaska. 

The severe cold would be what I
would be concerned with and not
the wildlife.

Yeah, when it drops below 60 I hibernate.

To each his own.
When it drops below 60 I start getting comfortable...

[BUGEYE]

Remind me to stay out of Alaska. 

The severe cold would be what I
would be concerned with and not
the wildlife.

Yeah, when it drops below 60 I hibernate.

To each his own.
When it drops below 60 I start getting comfortable...

Me too back when I weighed 190.
Illness has brought me down to 150 and I get cold very easy, and, I can overheat easily too.
Bad hearts can do it to ya.