Why are there not more 40 cal modern rifle rounds

[HWB13]

There are ton of 30 cal, several 35 and 45 cal rounds, but why is the 40 left out.I  know the 416's are out there, but I am thinking true 40s.  Once we graduate from the black powder cases, the only ones I  can  recall is the 400 Whelen, as I recall they had shoulder issues, every thing I have read when the shoulder was good it was a heck of a round.  Then there was the obsolete 401 Winchester self loader.  I have one model 1910, made in 1929, and have a nice 8 pointer on the wall shot in 1949 by my great uncles father. That is how it ended with me. Just wondering if anyone has more info on why not more 40 cal, seams to me it would be a great woods caliber.   Maybe that so many 30 cal parent cases that it was to much, just a thought. If I have over looked some I'm sure someone here will educate me.

[billy_56081]

I have a 351, some day I hope I get to shoot a deer with it.

[HWB13]

I will be taking the 401 in the woods this year

[Ranger99]

Give it time
After the 6.5 fad blows over, maybe the
next big thing will be  .40 rifles
( but only if a gun magazine gushes about
it, or a popular character in a movie uses
one of some configuration)

[Mule 11]

I have been eye balling the 405 Winchester for a few years and may end up with one...

[Dee]

Not to argue, but what would a 40 do, that a 30 would not do? Or a 35 Wieland? Or a 4570? Or a 300 WinMag.

There are so many different rifle cartridges out there, what would a 40 add?

Not playing the devils' advocate, just curious.

[billy_56081]

There are 10mm and 40 s&w carbines out there.

[Dee]

I ordered a Ruger PC 40 when they came out along with 4 new 30 round Glock magazines.
One  of the most unreliable rifles I've ever owned. Ruger worked with me until about 700 rounds of testing, parts changing, and so on. I gave up and went back to an AR that Sig put out. They work every time.
I heard the 9mm PC was much better, but 9mms aren't allowed in my house.

[Mule 11]

Not to argue, but what would a 40 do, that a 30 would not do? Or a 35 Wieland? Or a 4570? Or a 300 WinMag.

There are so many different rifle cartridges out there, what would a 40 add?

Not playing the devils' advocate, just curious.

Have to use straight walled cartridges to hunt deer in my state. I’m using a 375 Winchester. I don’t have dies, brass, or bullets for a 405 win so probably not gonna happen.

[Dee]

Out to about 125 yards a 357 magnum carbine will do anything a 3030 will do.

[Moleman]

I'm also in a straight walled case zone for deer hunting.   Last year I used a 16" barreled .400FUW, and this year I made a 22" to go with it.   The 16" gets 2600fps with the 200gr XTP and the 22" is about another 160fps faster.   Barnes all copper 195 which are long for weight taking up case capacity come in at 2420fps chrony average out of the 16".  Haven't run the Barnes 195's over the chrony yet but QuickLoad guesses 2560fps for the 22". The 16" barrel is within 15fps of the QL guess so it should be fairly close. Barnes also sells a 175gr version of their all copper bullet to Knight. Same ogive profile, just a shorter shank length I have some to try out and they should hit somewhere in the 2700's fps. The 200gr XTP's are the fastest, but also aren't meant for the speed so they come apart.  The Barnes bullets will handle the speed, so that's what gets used for hunting. 

[HWB13]

Not to argue, but what would a 40 do, that a 30 would not do? Or a 35 Wieland? Or a 4570? Or a 300 WinMag.

There are so many different rifle cartridges out there, what would a 40 add?

Not playing the devils' advocate, just curious.

I agree with everything that is out there, but why do guys make 12 and 10 cal rimfires.  Just was pondering as I set in a treestand in a very quite woods.  Thought maybe there was some knowledge out there I didn't know.

[Graybeard]

Biggest why nots in my opinion:

1. Cuz a 40 kicks too much to be fun

2. Cuz folks like super flat shooting, long range rifles these days. A .40 is neither.

[Lloyd Smale]

one of my buddys who i respect the opinion of because hes been there and done that in the US and Africa on about every game animal said his favorite african rifle and round is a rem 700 in 416 rem. He said it knocks the cork out of about everything and it seems to put down even cape buffalo better then anything hes tried or seen tried. He will also tell you the "have to have a control round fed gun for dangerous game" is mostly talk on the internet buy people that havent shot crap. I know one other man thats favorite big bore round is the 416 rem and thats John Linebaugh. What more needs to be said.

[jedman]

I think what Graybeard said is really the main reasons. Plus being there have not been many modern 40 cal. cartridges or rifle bullets available, mostly pistol bullets and for the majority of what people hunt in the US there are plenty of better choices.
I am talking true 40 calls. in .400- .401 dia.
My smokeless powder muzzleloader was a H&R handi in 45-70 and I made a 209 primered breechplug for it and shoot .401 cast FN 250 gr. In a 45 cal. sabot @ 2100 fps.

jedman

[Bob Riebe]

Biggest why nots in my opinion:
1. Cuz a 40 kicks too much to be fun
2. Cuz folks like super flat shooting, long range rifles these days. A .40 is neither.

A forty is to large to be practical for an all around rifle for most critters in North America but is actially on the small side for dangerous game in Africa.

So there is no reason for a cluster of new ones to exist.

[Moleman]

OP, looks like Winchester has granted your wish.   https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Public-Introduction-400-Legend-2023-01-30.pdf

The 400 legend specs are out now and it looks like they went with a slightly different 6.8spc case.   It uses the .422" rim diameter, but is a rebated design with a .440" base dia (only .001" off the 6.5 Grendel) and 1.650" case length which is a little shorter than the 400AR which is off of the 6.5 Carcano case or the 40GPC which is off of the 6.8 spc case. It uses .400" bullets like 40S&W/10MM/sabotted 45ML bullets and has a 20" muzzle velocity of 2230 fps for a 215gr according to the spec sheet.  Clearly meant for the AR15 with the 45K chamber pressure and COL. 

[Drilling Man]

one of my buddys who i respect the opinion of because hes been there and done that in the US and Africa on about every game animal said his favorite african rifle and round is a rem 700 in 416 rem. He said it knocks the cork out of about everything and it seems to put down even cape buffalo better then anything hes tried or seen tried. He will also tell you the "have to have a control round fed gun for dangerous game" is mostly talk on the internet buy people that havent shot crap. I know one other man thats favorite big bore round is the 416 rem and thats John Linebaugh. What more needs to be said.

  I'm with your friend on both accounts, I crawled many a mile through brush hunting brown bear with my push feed 700 Rem., never had any problems at all.  I also agree 100% with GB.

  As for the 40 cal., LONG ago I came up with a 40 cal on the 9.3x74R case, even had it chambered in a DR and I still have that DR.  Thing is, I never finished developing the cartridge, I just had too many others I was working on at that time.

  Maybe one day I'll get some interest in it again.

  DM

[Bob Riebe]

Well  there are:
.400 Jeffery Nitro Express
.400 Purdey
.400 Whelen
.401 Winchester Self-Loading
.404 Jeffery (.422)
.405 Winchester
.416 Barrett
.416 Remington Magnum
.416 Rigby
.416 Ruger
.416 Taylor
.416 Weatherby Magnum
.425 Westley Richards (.435)

More are not needed, especially if you include the .444 Marlin, .450 Marlin, 45-70 but more, not so well known versions, already exist because men are driven by: What if I try this.

[Eddie Southgate]

Not enough difference in diameter between the .375's and .458's to warrant many .40 caliber cartridges that don't already exist . There were a few more in the 1880's but they pretty quickly got gobbled up by the new smokeless powder higher speed smaller diameter rounds that at the time were pushed as being much more effective.

[Lloyd Smale]

if we argue that a 30 or 35 will do what a 40 will then all cartridge development should have stopped with the 06 here and the 375 in africa. no brainer that a bigger bullet in the same case is more powerful and so is the same bullet in a bigger case. take the win mags. if you think the 7 hits as hard as the 300 or the 300 as hard as the 338 you been reading to much internet bs instead of killing animals. that kind of bs comes from people who cant take the recoil and instead of admitting it make these silly claims

[Lloyd Smale]

 i also chuckle at the 357 in a rifle is as powerful as a 3030 nonsense. you can get 1700, maybe 1800 if you load hotter than book loads with a 158 357. a 3030 will push a 150 to 2200 and a 170 to 2100fps and a much higher bc bullet that will sded velocity slower. thats 4-500 fps higher. a 300 mag is only 200 fps faster than an 06 and you wont get many to argue the against the 300 hitting harder. a rifle makes the 357 an adequate deer round where in my opinion out of a hand gun its marginal but it doesnt make it a 3030 unless your shooting internet deer

[ironglow]

  Golly.....don't know how our antecedentys ever made do with such old cartridges as the 30/30, .405 Win, 30-06, .270 Win, .416 Rigby, 45-70, or the .600 nitro express...

      Now we must have at least 250 available calibers to choose from....choices.....choices; why not another 250 choices?

     Here in the northeast mountains, the venerable old 30/30 will do the job..and I do have a long standing preference for the .308. D...Don't need
      anything more around here.

  Here in deep woods or very hilly terrain, I have enjoyed the .44 mag greatly...and within say, 150 yards, it kills a deer or bear just as dead as
   the .308, 30/06, or .300 Win Mag does.

  On a whim a couple years ago, I bought a Ruger American in a .450 Bushmaster...then it suddenly dawned upon me...why put up with so much
     recoil and blast noise...when my .444 Mag will do the same job.    Incidently, the noise bothers more than the recoil..

  Of course each has his choice, but for me.. I don't need a sledge hammer to kill a fly..

[Lloyd Smale]

my 444 outfitter barks as much or more than the buddys american 450. mine is 18in and ported though. its substantially louder then my ported 4570 guide gun

[Eddie Southgate]

Half or three quarter of the time you can't find cases to load or loaded ammo to empty to load for a lot of what is already an established cartridge. My comment was aimed strictly at bullet diameter and what was the likely reason there are not more modern .40 calibers than there already are. In my mind the .375 and .40 are so close that if you need a bigger diameter bullet than .375 you just grab one of the .458 cartridges . What can you do with any .40 caliber that a .375 H&H or .375 Steyr or .375 Ruger or .375 Whelan won't do ? In .458 I only own a 45-70 in a modern Marlin '95 , with the right load of powder and the right bullet it will kill anything except a tank that I could ever shoot with it and if I needed more power I'd buy a .458 Win Mag . Actually as has already been pointed out there Are plenty of .40 caliber cartridges and there were any number more. If you want a good .40 all you need is a 30-06 that you can have bored and chambered for .400 Whelan and you are ready for anything in North America and most of anything elsewhere. Was not referring to the .375 Winchester lever action cartridge which in my mind is just a warmed up 38-55 .

[Lloyd Smale]

heres a 444 article my best friend al wrote on paco kellys site on the 444. https://www.leverguns.com/articles/anderson/444Outfitter.htm    paco has a couple more articles on it there if your ever looking for load data. i actually have that 340 mold al talks about and had it loaded in a 5.5in Bisley at one of the linebaugh seminars and it blew everyone away. it took second place only beat by one 475 load and out penetrated my own 458 #1 with winchester 500 grain round noses and it beat kelly broasts 458 lott i wouldnt post the load because it was hot but it did 1250fps out of that 5.5 in barrel.