Would US military attack US citizens?

[Dee]

Actually the military personel DID move on the Branch Davidian Compound, with armed Military helicopters, and tanks.

https://culteducation.com/group/1220-waco-davidians/24432-military-involvement-in-the-government-operations-at-waco.html

[Mule 11]

Yeah. They were lied to. Butt. They were very upset over being lied to

[Lloyd Smale]

well i have a slightly different view of this. In the military and even police to a lesser extent you follow orders. If you dont theres kaos. In the heat of a battle is not the time for a democratic vote on how to proceed. Sometimes those orders are wrong and sometimes they seem wrong because the private and corporal doesnt know the big picture. Remember, today you dont want them to follow our idiotic leadership but tomorrow it might be a good republican president and the enemy might not be some liberal trash but might be the chinese or russians. What happens in that case when a private decides its not his fight? Ill tell you what. The guy standing next to him dies. My opinion is this. you swear an oath to obey your superiors when you enlist. If you dont want to do that dont join! Its like gays in the service today. They joined full well knowing it was against the rules. Now they rebelled and came out of the closet. Do you think that strengthened our military or would our military been better off if they wouldnt have joined in the first place? To many today join the military to get free college and if given a chance would run and hide vs fighting. I for one am not for giving them that option. If a general or a president gives an unlawful order let the courts sort it out. Not the privates. I can relate it to police too. If theres an active shooter ( i know that phrase sucks) and the perp is a black man or two or three of them do you think a police officer that is black and believes in black lives matters bs should put down his gun and walk away?? Its not your job to decide policy. That hesitation will get people killed. Its sad that sometimes our leadership sucks but that WILL occasionally happen. Theres the old saying "let God sort them out" I dont agree with what happened at ruby ridge but those were not patriots. They were cultists. Im sure theres a couple here that would be cheering what happened if it would have been a bunch of catholics, Jews or mormons ort muslims.

[Mule 11]

I served in the military to fight for Americans and the freedoms that this fine god given country represents. Not to burn American women and children to death after submitting them to psychological terror and sleep deprivation.

[Lloyd Smale]

oh i didnt say it was right. The people who make those decisions should have been held acountable. But the soldiers were following orders. They did nothing wrong. Unless you want the NEW wave of the military. The liberals and queers rebelling whenever they what there doing hurts there feelings or is untasteful to them or like i said the black police walking away from black crime then orders and disipline are mandatory. Without it theres just kaos. If something is done unlawful its up to the courts to decide. Not the private or the deputy. If that doesnt work for you get a job at burger king.

[Dee]

I served in the military to fight for Americans and the freedoms that this fine god given country represents. Not to burn American women and children to death after submitting them to psychological terror and sleep deprivation.

Same here.
I've been ordered numerous times to commit an unlawful act using police authority.
Once from a Chief of Police.
Each time I informed that ranking officer that it was illegal, and I wouldn't be following that order.
As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter what stage of life you're involved in.
If its wrong, don't do it.

[nw_hunter]

well i have a slightly different view of this. In the military and even police to a lesser extent you follow orders. If you dont theres kaos. In the heat of a battle is not the time for a democratic vote on how to proceed. Sometimes those orders are wrong and sometimes they seem wrong because the private and corporal doesnt know the big picture. Remember, today you dont want them to follow our idiotic leadership but tomorrow it might be a good republican president and the enemy might not be some liberal trash but might be the chinese or russians. What happens in that case when a private decides its not his fight? Ill tell you what. The guy standing next to him dies. My opinion is this. you swear an oath to obey your superiors when you enlist. If you dont want to do that dont join! Its like gays in the service today. They joined full well knowing it was against the rules. Now they rebelled and came out of the closet. Do you think that strengthened our military or would our military been better off if they wouldnt have joined in the first place? To many today join the military to get free college and if given a chance would run and hide vs fighting. I for one am not for giving them that option. If a general or a president gives an unlawful order let the courts sort it out. Not the privates. I can relate it to police too. If theres an active shooter ( i know that phrase sucks) and the perp is a black man or two or three of them do you think a police officer that is black and believes in black lives matters bs should put down his gun and walk away?? Its not your job to decide policy. That hesitation will get people killed. Its sad that sometimes our leadership sucks but that WILL occasionally happen. Theres the old saying "let God sort them out" I dont agree with what happened at ruby ridge but those were not patriots. They were cultists. Im sure theres a couple here that would be cheering what happened if it would have been a bunch of catholics, Jews or mormons ort muslims.

you swear an oath to obey your superiors when you enlist. If you dont want to do that dont join!


You swear to defend the constitution first.

The Oath of Enlistment (for enlisted):
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

[Lloyd Smale]

yes you do but that doesnt make you a lawyer that is qualified to interpret constitutional law. Last i heard that was the supreme courts job. Look at that brave officer that stood up and called out his superiors. He didnt even question an order just disagreed with him and he was court martialed found guilty and lost his career and retirement. They didnt give a rats ass about his "opinion" on what is right and wrong. They courtmartialed him for disobeying orders. It just the way it works and like i said "dont like it dont join" Even though he was probably right and for sure wasnt disproved he broke the oath he swore. If he would have disobeyed an order in a combat situation hed be in prison today. As to if soldiers would fire on americans? Look at the civil war. How many on both sides commited what today we consider war crimes??  Look at how many here have said there should be an overthrow or rebellion. You think there going to say "no need for violence its all yours???" How many here have said theyd stand and fight and even kill just to keep there guns?? Aint going to be the russians coming for those guns. Its fellow americans.

[mcbammer]

   IMO, It  wont  be taking our guns by force  but  other methods , like passing laws that make gun owners instant criminals  an start  tossing a few  people in jail . Then fear sets in and the sheep will obey .

[orerancher]

They will Kill more than a Few that Won't Comply....

[Mule 11]

oh i didnt say it was right. The people who make those decisions should have been held acountable. But the soldiers were following orders. They did nothing wrong. Unless you want the NEW wave of the military. The liberals and queers rebelling whenever they what there doing hurts there feelings or is untasteful to them or like i said the black police walking away from black crime then orders and disipline are mandatory. Without it theres just kaos. If something is done unlawful its up to the courts to decide. Not the private or the deputy. If that doesnt work for you get a job at burger king.

So. Do what is wrong because you were ordered to? Maybe you should get a job as Benedict Arnold?

[ironglow]

.
   THe ones who attacked civilians at Ruby Ridge and Waco were not military!  The were ATF and FBI, even though
   they were using military equipment.  Little known factoid..Wesley Clark..Democrat's handmaiden general..was the one who turned the equipment loose..at the urging of old wrinkle-faced, Democrat Texas Gov. Anne Richards 
   
    However, by now Obama and Biden have placed NWO type field grade officers in many critical positions..so there seems to be a different kind of "loyalty" afoot.

  Until now, soldiers knowing freedom of religion is guaranteed by the constitution, would likely refrain from attacking any religious commune.  However, if the "Obidenites" have been successful in placing enough , butches, queers, atheists, nihilists and commies in key spots...who knows ?  After all, that is the same types who burned several cities down this past spring and summer..

[Mule 11]

.
   THe ones who attacked civilians at Ruby Ridge and Waco were not military!  The were ATF and FBI, even though
   they were using military equipment

  However, by now Obama and Biden have placed NWO type field grade officers in many critical positions..so there seems to be a different kind of "loyalty" afoot.

You are mistaken.

[ironglow]

.
   THe ones who attacked civilians at Ruby Ridge and Waco were not military!  The were ATF and FBI, even though
   they were using military equipment

  However, by now Obama and Biden have placed NWO type field grade officers in many critical positions..so there seems to be a different kind of "loyalty" afoot.

You are mistaken.

   Okay...show me !  Here's what I have..among many.. It seems all inquires come out that way...

      https://www.history.com/topics/1990s/waco-siege   
     
       https://www.britannica.com/event/Waco-siege

     https://www.britannica.com/event/Ruby-Ridge

   

[Mule 11]

.
   THe ones who attacked civilians at Ruby Ridge and Waco were not military!  The were ATF and FBI, even though
   they were using military equipment

  However, by now Obama and Biden have placed NWO type field grade officers in many critical positions..so there seems to be a different kind of "loyalty" afoot.

You are mistaken.

   Okay...show me !  Here's what I have..among many.. It seems all inquires come out that way...

      https://www.history.com/topics/1990s/waco-siege   
     
       https://www.britannica.com/event/Waco-siege

     https://www.britannica.com/event/Ruby-Ridge

 

Sorry. I don’t have the computer skills that you have. Someone else may have them butt not me. I. Disagree.

[ironglow]

.
  Mule..don't label me as having computer skills !   Compared to most, even my great grandchildren..
     ...I am a computer Neanderthal !   

[Dee]

Actually the military personel DID move on the Branch Davidian Compound, with armed Military helicopters, and tanks.

https://culteducation.com/group/1220-waco-davidians/24432-military-involvement-in-the-government-operations-at-waco.html

Yes mule, the ATF and United States Marshall Service DID use military personnel, and equipment at Waco TX Branch Davidian siege. Its documented fact.

A direct violation of "POSSE COMITATUS".

I had State law enforcement personnel who were placed on perimeter security  that saw it also.
One even testified in front of Congress.

Also,
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege

https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles/the-waco-siege-was-the-most-controversial-use-of-federal-force-in-decades/

[oldandslow]

Ironglow and Dee got it right on the Branch Davidian thing. The FBI and ATF as ordered by Janet Reno, attorney general at the time, made  the assault and they did use military equipment. This was was just another example of government over reach involving killing civilians that nothing was done about.

A simple google or other browser search will bring up more information on this than anyone needs. Even ol' computer illiterate me can do that.

I firmly believe the military of today will ignore posse conitatius if ordered to fire on civilians and I wouldn't put it past the current administration to order it to if things aren't going their way. They now break any law they want with no consequences so why wouldn't they do so?

[mcbammer]

   I distinctly remember a Tank being used  to  crash  the walls  at the Branch Div. compound .

[Dee]

If you'll go back to one of the links I posted you'll se they used several tanks, and other military equipment, and military personnel to operate them.

[mcbammer]

If you'll go back to one of the links I posted you'll se they used several tanks, and other military equipment, and military personnel to operate them.

Just going by my memory , The tank or tanks were what started  the fire that burned many alive .

[Dee]

If you'll go back to one of the links I posted you'll se they used several tanks, and other military equipment, and military personnel to operate them.

Just going by my memory , The tank or tanks were what started  the fire that burned many alive .

The chemicals they introduced into the compound via those tanks were so damaging that the muscle contractions they caused in the children caused them to draw backwards until it broke some of the kids back.
I was unfortunate enough to have looked at crime scene photos, and kids were bent backwards to the point the backs of their heads were touching their butts.

And Bill Clintons' Janet Reno skated.

[phalanx]

Still, if our military were ordered to do this. There would be dissent among the ranks. Wondering what would be happening back home to their own family's. I would.

[ironglow]

.
  One thing any soldier can tell you is that CS gas canister, landing on any flammable..clothes, drapes, mattresses, bedding etc..WILL start a fire.
   You cannot grab the canister with bare hands.    ....And even if you bat it with something, where are you going to bat it to, when you are in a dormitory?

  The FLIR videos showed flashes coming from the armored vehicles.  The obedient lying media said those were "shiny surfaces" on the tanks..that were casting bright reflections...

   Take it from an old tanker, there are no "shiny surfaces" on a tank, and for obvious reasons.

   ...For the same reason why you wouldn't take flashing mirrors with you when you go out coyote hunting.

[Dee]

400 football sized canisters of CS gas were fired into the Branch Davidian Compound knowing full well there were women, children, and elderly people in n there.
3 months later CS gas was outlawed from the battlefield for military use.

[Dee]

If Australia is any indication, police and military enforcers are more than willing to beat up, lock up, shoot up, break up, and chase down fellow Aussies.
.

Yeeeeepppp!

[Mule 11]

400 football sized canisters of CS gas were fired into the Branch Davidian Compound knowing full well there were women, children, and elderly people in n there.
3 months later CS gas was outlawed from the battlefield for military use.

I remember hearing they did this to protect the children.

[orerancher]

Lincoln County Sheriff, Has just got a Brand New, Armored Assault Rig...Saw It in the Court House Parking Lot this Afternoon....

Sure Looks like the Sheriff is Planning to Attack the People Here....

If i See It again, I'll try and get a Picture...

[Dee]

Usually those are used by tactical units for transport, and approach of dangerous situations.
Law enforcement has the right to use this type of vehicle for their own safety, as long as they're not misused.

[ironglow]

.
   From Dee;

  " And Bill Clintons' Janet Reno skated."


   Well, they skated so far....But Hillary's old crush buddy, Janet Reno has found out...seeing she died on 11/07/16.

  I wonder if Bill had anything to do with that order..since I can better feature Hilly giving the order with her blazing temper.

   As the old preacher R G Lee once preached...."Payday, Someday!"