...A short, sweet message ..

[ironglow]

.
  ..From the "Duke"..

[BUGEYE]

The Duke’s movies hired expert armorers, Baldwin’s movie hired a girl who was clueless.

[gene_225]

But, but, but... She was cheap.

[Dee]

The Duke, should have been known as "the duck".
When folks like Jimmy Stewart, Lee Marvin and Henry Fonda were joining the military to do their part in WWII, Marion Morrison aka John Wayne was avoiding military service because he was afraid it would ruin his acting career.
Career came before country was where Marion Morrison, aka John Waynes'  heart really was.

His "acting" extended into his "patriotism".
Everything he did was about "himself.

Ole Marion Morrison aka "the duck" didn't patriotic until the shooting stopped. He has been in my view, and many of the informed, a pos fraud, who was a mediocre macho "actor".

Think I'm "John Wayne" bashing? Look it up.

https://www.military.com/history/why-john-wayne-was-labeled-draft-dodger-during-world-war-ii.html

[gene_225]

It certainly is true that all characters were "John Wayne". That is, John Wayne always played himself; he never became the character, but the character had to become John Wayne.

[Dee]

John Wayne in my opinion, was never much of an actor. Every movie he ever made, he looked the same, talked the same, and on and on.
He was like a singer that sang every song, in the same key.
His true self was a fraudulent portrayal of Americana that he hid behind.

[DDZ]

John Wayne in my opinion, was never much of an actor. Every movie he ever made, he looked the same, talked the same, and on and on.
He was like a singer that sang every song, in the same key.
His true self was a fraudulent portrayal of Americana that he hid behind.

I agree, and I was never a John Wayne fan. In fact there are many of his movies that I have never seen. Then there are some that watch the same ones over and over.  That would be near like watching paint dry.

[Mule 11]

It’s just entertainment. Some think entertainers should be governors and Presidents. Why if we had Dirty Harry as pres he’d show em...

[ironglow]

.
    John Wayne (Marion Robert Morrison) was born in May of 1907.  It seems that by the time the draft started in earnest in about 1942 (due to Pearl Harbor), he may not have been high on the eligibility list..

   Then too, perhaps he did a greater service, by building morale among both troops and civilians along with selling
      more war bonds...

[geosmin]

Seminary school enrollments bulged during Viet Nam.

Many young fellas were suddenly called to do "God's work".

Or, find marriage and a quick pregnancy.

A fake cowboy in a film is less harmful than a fake preacher behind a pulpit.

[Bob Riebe]

From the Wiki:

America's entry into World War II resulted in a deluge of support for the war effort from all sectors of society, and Hollywood was no exception. Wayne was exempted from service due to his age (34 at the time of Pearl Harbor) and family status (classified as 3-A – family deferment). Wayne repeatedly wrote to John Ford saying he wanted to enlist, on one occasion inquiring whether he could get into Ford's military unit.[39] Wayne did not attempt to prevent his reclassification as 1-A (draft eligible), but Republic Studios was emphatically resistant to losing him since he was their only A-list actor under contract. Herbert J. Yates, President of Republic, threatened Wayne with a lawsuit if he walked away from his contract,[40] and Republic Pictures intervened in the Selective Service process, requesting Wayne's further deferment.[41]

U.S. National Archives records indicate that Wayne, in fact, did make an application[42] to serve in the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), precursor to the modern CIA, and had been accepted within the U.S. Army's allotted billet to the OSS. William J. Donovan, OSS Commander, wrote Wayne a letter informing him of his acceptance into the Field Photographic Unit, but the letter went to his estranged wife Josephine's home. She never told him about it. Wayne toured U.S. bases and hospitals in the South Pacific for three months in 1943 and 1944,[43] with the USO.[44][45][46] During this trip, he carried out a request from Donovan to assess whether General Douglas MacArthur, commander of the South West Pacific Area, or his staff were hindering the work of the OSS.[21]: 88  Donovan later issued Wayne an OSS Certificate of Service to memorialize Wayne's contribution to the OSS mission.[21]: 88 [47]

By many accounts, his failure to serve in the military later became the most painful part of his life.[39] His widow later suggested that his patriotism in later decades sprang from guilt, writing: "He would become a 'superpatriot' for the rest of his life trying to atone for staying home."[48]

[Dee]

.
    John Wayne (Marion Robert Morrison) was born in May of 1907.  It seems that by the time the draft started in earnest in about 1942 (due to Pearl Harbor), he may not have been high on the eligibility list..

   Then too, perhaps he did a greater service, by building morale among both troops and civilians along with selling
      more war bonds...

I suppose one could ignore the facts in this link where WWII combat troops booed him off USOZ tour stages in the Pacific theater for being a coward, and I suppose one could ignore the fact that while other actors were participating in the defense of our country during this war, that self centered, cowardly 30 sumthin year old John Wayne filed for a class 3 deferment.
And I suppose one could ignore the fact that when the military did draft him  the studios intervened buying him out of the draft.
I suppose one could ignore all that for the sake of defending a self centered, draft dodging, coward, and his fraudulent patriotism.

https://www.military.com/history/why-john-wayne-was-labeled-draft-dodger-during-world-war-ii.html
[/quote]

[ironglow]

 .
   Sometimes curious things do happen ! my youngest brother graduated high school in mid 1960s.  He was offered a football and scholastic scholarship to both Annapolis and a local stae college.
   
    He was teaching at a high school when his draft notice , and I guess he didn't have to go..could have gotten a deferment...but he figured..."hey it's my country too"..  So he went ahead and served..as I recall 1970-1972.

  Well being a Phys ed and health teacher, after basic, they kept him right there at Fort Dix...running a field house (gym).  ...But he could just as well been sent to 'Nam.  As it was, he attended college for more degrees, right 
  there near the post.

   After serving, he went to teach at a NY State University.  was teaching and coaching about a year or two, when the peace treaty was signed in Paris.  immediately, a large portion of the students left, since they were only "students" for the purpose of avoidance.

  Since he was 'last gired'..the cut in staff caught him.  He went on to yteach & coach in a  very affluent high school near Rochester..from which he retired.
   
   ..Apparently all those degrees didn't help him any, since he is still a hopeless liberal.   

[Dee]

From the Wiki:

America's entry into World War II resulted in a deluge of support for the war effort from all sectors of society, and Hollywood was no exception. Wayne was exempted from service due to his age (34 at the time of Pearl Harbor) and family status (classified as 3-A – family deferment). Wayne repeatedly wrote to John Ford saying he wanted to enlist, on one occasion inquiring whether he could get into Ford's military unit.[39] Wayne did not attempt to prevent his reclassification as 1-A (draft eligible), but Republic Studios was emphatically resistant to losing him since he was their only A-list actor under contract. Herbert J. Yates, President of Republic, threatened Wayne with a lawsuit if he walked away from his contract,[40] and Republic Pictures intervened in the Selective Service process, requesting Wayne's further deferment.[41]

U.S. National Archives records indicate that Wayne, in fact, did make an application[42] to serve in the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), precursor to the modern CIA, and had been accepted within the U.S. Army's allotted billet to the OSS. William J. Donovan, OSS Commander, wrote Wayne a letter informing him of his acceptance into the Field Photographic Unit, but the letter went to his estranged wife Josephine's home. She never told him about it. Wayne toured U.S. bases and hospitals in the South Pacific for three months in 1943 and 1944,[43] with the USO.[44][45][46] During this trip, he carried out a request from Donovan to assess whether General Douglas MacArthur, commander of the South West Pacific Area, or his staff were hindering the work of the OSS.[21]: 88  Donovan later issued Wayne an OSS Certificate of Service to memorialize Wayne's contribution to the OSS mission.[21]: 88 [47]

By many accounts, his failure to serve in the military later became the most painful part of his life.[39] His widow later suggested that his patriotism in later decades sprang from guilt, writing: "He would become a 'superpatriot' for the rest of his life trying to atone for staying home."[48]

LMAO!!

[oldandslow]

Well, golly gee whiz, Dee certainly poured ice water on Ironglow's meme. 

[ironglow]

Well, golly gee whiz, Dee certainly poured ice water on Ironglow's meme. 

   Not really... Depends upon how agiven individual sees it !

   Donald Trump came along just about in time for Vietnam..but obviously didn't serve.  However, juist like John Wayne, he went on to serve in other ways.

[BUGEYE]

Well, golly gee whiz, Dee certainly poured ice water on Ironglow's meme. 

   Not really... Depends upon how ny given individual sees it !

   Donald Trump came along just about in time for Vietnam..but obviously didn't serve.  However, juist like John Wayne, he went on to serve in other ways,

Some of the same folks called Reagan a coward because he didn’t go to combat, but, in their ignorance, they didn’t know that Reagan was nearly blind, so he stayed here and sold war bonds.

[ironglow]

.
  Ronald Reagan was in the military, but as you said..he did not serve in combat.  He served where he could
   serve best, making movies for the benefit of those who did serve in combat !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lbyXmNBzUc

   Reagan served in the Army Air corps during WW2..  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan_filmography

[wtxbadger]

There is not a person among all of us who doesn't have their own faults no matter their notoriety or average everyday people just making a living. I tend to look at what a person accomplishes with what God gave them and if what they did had a positive or negative influence on those around them or publicly.

Maybe we should examine the personal lives of the Founders of our country, notable leaders through our history along with those lesser known who had a positive impact and effect and throw everything they did in the trash can.

Hmmmm, sure seems that's what has happened with statues and monuments being torn down and any brilliant military leader whose tactics used to be taught in our military academies being banned?

Where and when does it stop? Public figure, actor, musician or everyday person just trying to make a living and doing the best they can despite their personal failings?

[Dee]

John Wayne made a lotta money making war movies. But when our country was attacked and over a thousand soldiers, and sailors killed, he dodged the real war, and refused to serve.

Alec Baldwin, Liam Neeson and others make a lotta money in movies playing good guys and using a lot of guns. Just like John Wayne.
But because of their views of a safer world without guns?
They are viewed as traitors to the Constitution. While John Wayne is given a pass for refusing to defend it.
His fellow actors signed up to fight. Even Marlena Dietrich his lover behind his wifes' back, helped get Jews out of Germany during the war.

WWII combat veterans viewed John Waynes' refusal to protect out country, and Constitution the same way many today view Baldwin and Neeson.

How strange that one, gets a free pass when his lack of patriotism is uncovered, and documented, while two of the same ilk merely expressing their views are demonized.

Curious,

[wtxbadger]

The more I judged other people without knowing all the factors the more I found myself judged with opinion and rumor and prejudice.

Luke 6:42 guides me in forming my thoughts and opinions on other people.

[Dee]

The more I judged other people without knowing all the factors the more I found myself judged with opinion and rumor and prejudice.

Luke 6:42 guides me in forming my thoughts and opinions on other people.

Well wt, I agree with you on most of that. The Lord tells us to judge the sin, but not the sinner.
But He also tells us to protect ourselves, our families, and our fellow man.

John Chapter 15 verse 13. Greater love hath no man  than this. That he lay down his life for  friends.

He also tells us not hold up scoundrels as if they're good men.

Liam Neeson, and alec Baldwin are traitorous scoundrels that would disarm us all and throw us to the wolves, because they detest our Constitution, and Bill of Rights.

On December 7th when Pearl Harbor was attacked by the Japanese, thousands of men and women killed and wounded.
Farm hands to actors stepped up to defend our country, and our freedoms.

But John Wayne put himself, and his career before his country, and his  fellow countrymen, and he let someone else do the fighting.

The Lord also says: Ye shall know them by their fruits.
Matthew  Chapter 7 verses 16 through 20.

[wtxbadger]

Not all of us are meant to serve on the front lines of a battle but still play a part in a war whether it's the private sector or the service.

We all have and play different roles in life.

Case in point would be my father and his brother, my Dad's older brother immediately volunteered and served in the Marine Corp when the Korean War started and served honorably on the front lines. My Dad waited to be drafted before he fulfilled his duty in the Army in supply. The reason he waited was he was taking care of their mother(my grandmother) who was widowed when my Dad was less than two years old during the great depression. She had little education and they struggled daily for food and shelter. At five years old my Dad was selling newspapers and doing anything and everything he could to bring home money along with his older brother to survive. My grandmother was literally a Rosie the Riveter during WWII but later her health deteriorated and she wasn't able to work. My Dad stayed behind as long as possible to care and provide for her until he was drafted and was criticized by quite a few people for waiting and not volunteering. He fulfilled his familial duty to his mother and between both he and my Uncle they managed to support her during their service.

I have read several different accounts of John Wayne's not serving but I am withholding judgement. I don't figure it's my place or right to do so. Men who have done wrong things in the past have also grown beyond and done things that amended and served a greater purpose that inspired and motivated others.

JMO and I figure that's the end of my thoughts on it.

[BUGEYE]

Not all of us are meant to serve on the front lines of a battle but still play a part in a war whether it's the private sector or the service.

We all have and play different roles in life.

Case in point would be my father and his brother, my Dad's older brother immediately volunteered and served in the Marine Corp when the Korean War started and served honorably on the front lines. My Dad waited to be drafted before he fulfilled his duty in the Army in supply. The reason he waited was he was taking care of their mother(my grandmother) who was widowed when my Dad was less than two years old during the great depression. She had little education and they struggled daily for food and shelter. At five years old my Dad was selling newspapers and doing anything and everything he could to bring home money along with his older brother to survive. My grandmother was literally a Rosie the Riveter during WWII but later her health deteriorated and she wasn't able to work. My Dad stayed behind as long as possible to care and provide for her until he was drafted and was criticized by quite a few people for waiting and not volunteering. He fulfilled his familial duty to his mother and between both he and my Uncle they managed to support her during their service.

I have read several different accounts of John Wayne's not serving but I am withholding judgement. I don't figure it's my place or right to do so. Men who have done wrong things in the past have also grown beyond and done things that amended and served a greater purpose that inspired and motivated others.

JMO and I figure that's the end of my thoughts on it.

Good post.
When WWII started, my Dad already had two kids (I came along in 43) and worked for Caterpillar where he spent the war making tanks.
And, he was as much a patriot as anyone.

[ironglow]

 .
   My Dad was faced with about the same situation as Bugeye's Dad.  Six kids at the time, and born 1904... rather advanced in age for draft...  He did work at Bell Aircraft & a couple other defense jobs during the war.

     However, over the years, he had 7 sons eligible to serve.. 5 of which did serve.. 1 Navy, 2 Army, 1 Air Force and
 1 Merchant Marine. Sometimes, judging without seeing the whole picture, can be risky..

        "for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" ...  (John 3:23)

[Dee]

Well, my dad didn't serve either. He wasn't old enough for WWII, and he was supporting a family, and farming during the Korean war.
Dad had brothers, nephews, and grandsons that did serve.

As far as it being "risky" in such matters.

John Waynes' situation is well documented as he was in intentionally in the public eye.
There is nuthin risky about the facts concerning John Wayne.
What is risky is ignoring the obvious facts.

What is "risky" is a prejudicial jury based on favoritism. He was popular to post WWII non combatants and that's all that matters to them. With WWII combat veterans, not so much.

Some folks are fans of convicted treasonous felons like Oliver North. I see him for the criminal who was pardoned by his powerful cohorts.
"Ye shall  know them by their fruits" is a "selective" passage depending on the juror.

I've made my point. John Wayne was what he was.

[oldandslow]

It was joke meant to lighten the mood of this bash fest a little, IG. Sorry you didn't see that.

[Dee]

It was joke meant to lighten the mood of this bash fest a little, IG. Sorry you didn't see that.

LOL, Not really a bash fest. Just a showcase of preferential treatment according to different views of who gets a pass, and who doesn't.

[ironglow]

It was joke meant to lighten the mood of this bash fest a little, IG. Sorry you didn't see that.

   No sweat, O & S..  I didn't see it as particularly abrasive, or any other  stress producer.

[magooch]

I actually did serve in our armed forces during the Viet Nam War and I sure don't feel that qualifies me to judge what others either volunteered to do, or chose not to do.  My thinking is that if a war is worth fighting, it should be with whatever weapons can end it quickly and kills all, or most of the enemy.  We had weapons back then that could have ended Viet Nam in a matter of minutes and saved a whole bunch of our guys. 

Wasn't it Gen. Patton who said he didn't want his men to die for their country.  Rather they should survive to kill the enemy.  I know, probably not quite accurate, but it works for me.  I served under Gen. Lemay whose belief it was that if you kill enough of the enemy, they will quit.  Makes ya hope that we can avoid any situation where leadership  is required these days.