This is about the only auto racing I would bother travelling to see.

[ironglow]

.
  ..Not just continuous left hand turns in a salad bowl..  No, they race in what nature provides.. sun, rain, snow and ice. 
  They do right hand and left hand turns..uphill, downhill..on dirt pavement and sometimes through a creek of cornfield.

  For the driver, negotiating many conditions other than a paved soup bowl..in sunny weather only...

    This has to be the ultimate test for car improvement, since they are travelling on roads and in conditions all of us face daily...only doing it perhaps 5 times as quick !

 For the car:  Supreme test for brakes, suspension, air filtration, transmission, ..almost every system of the car is pressed to the utmost.

  For the driver; Having to negotiate varying terrain, rain, sleet, snow or sun..whatever nature dumps on them.  Negotiating all nature of corners, on all types of surfaces..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D21WCUtkSDo

  So far, they haven't been required to obtain a pilots license, when they "catch air' for more than 150 feet ! 

[Graybeard]

As many wrecks as they have I don't think I'd want to stand along the road course as a spectator. All of them looked to be same model of vehicle, dunno what but they sure all looked same to me other than color.

[gene_225]

As many wrecks as they have I don't think I'd want to stand along the road course as a spectator. All of them looked to be same model of vehicle, dunno what but they sure all looked same to me other than color.

Agree. Seems to me there was a lot of wasted money if the video accurately portrayed what happened.

[Lloyd Smale]

we have a couple of them every year up here. About as boring as watching paint dry. You stand there and see about 2 minute of the race with a few ricers (and i dont mean racers)  going by. Youd have to have a helicopter to see the whole race. Id much rather watch drag races or even nascar where you can see the whole race. No doubt an exciting sport for those driving or the navigator but pretty boring for a spectator. I raced cross country snowmobiles for a few years. Its about the same. First couple years MANY showed up along the track. Soon few showed up and they couldnt even support the race because most of them didnt even buy a ticket.

[ironglow]

.
  1.  They are not strongly promoted...because not being confined to a stadium, there is no big payoff for investors.
      Nor are there "captive concessions..like $25 for a hot dog & a Coke..

  2.  Yes, there are more than their share of accidents, but most all are "walk aways' due to the lighter weight not crushing the body.

  3. There are many brands involved..even though they all have similar lines.  There are Audis, Toyotas, Kias, Hyundais, Citroens and more...with Ford making great strides in the game.  Yes they look much alike..same
 as NASCAR racers..

  4. Such racing must be a better overall test to find improvements for our daily cars...with varied course and the strain on almost every automotive function.  Rather like testing a baseball, by either whirling it around in a tub...or actually puttiong it out on the diamond, to go through real games..

  5.  For some who need a closed circuit to enjoy a race...some are  moving that way.... while still retaingin some of the hills, curves and switchbacks that offer a real challenge...they still can "catch air"! 

  Here, Ford shows that they can take the challenge;
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvZyjFzx2Y4&list=RDCMUC87j_-SIjbzUqlY8tuKlZyQ&index=3 

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Yh-rU4_9FQ

[Lloyd Smale]

go and actually take a look at rally cars. there no closer to a car you can buy then a nascar car is. There a shell on a full blown race car with full tilt race motors. A suburu off the showroom floor wouldnt last 5 minutes being thrashed like that. Comparing one to a factory car is about a far off as me taking my wrangler down to Baja and racing the 500.

[ironglow]

go and actually take a look at rally cars. there no closer to a car you can buy then a nascar car is. There a shell on a full blown race car with full tilt race motors. A suburu off the showroom floor wouldnt last 5 minutes being thrashed like that. Comparing one to a factory car is about a far off as me taking my wrangler down to Baja and racing the 500.

   I won't dispute that..neither one is near a production car..Those rally cars are AWD and 600 hp..some 1000 hp !

    ..But by understanding just what they need to do to best handle both left and right turns, up and down hill,  coming down on the suspension, after flying over a hundred feet through the air..and doing the same in all kinds of weather..can't help but "improve the breed"!
      Just running a car for a few hundred miles on sandy/dusty roads, must teach them something about air filtration.
   
   General Motors is getting into the game also;
       https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1052006_gm-eyeing-world-rally-championship-return

  ...And Chrysler;
   https://www.allpar.com/threads/the-600-horsepower-dodge-dart-rally-cars.228309/

   BTW:  I believe the old Baja races helped greatly, to inprove the vehicles..since in those races the cars/trucks
  were subject to the same vicissitudes that our family vehicles are subject to..but at a very much accelerated pace.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

[BUGEYE]

I really enjoy those kind of races, but, I prefer to watch them on TV so I can see the entire race.
No, I wouldn't buy a ticket to see 30 seconds of the race every two or three minutes.
I really hope that sponsors keep the races alive.

re engines: Indy cars can sustain 10,000 to 12,000 RPMs for hours and not blow to pieces and to me that's remarkable.

[ironglow]

I really enjoy those kind of races, but, I prefer to watch them on TV so I can see the entire race.
No, I wouldn't buy a ticket to see 30 seconds of the race every two or three minutes.
I really hope that sponsors keep the races alive.

re engines: Indy cars can sustain 10,000 to 12,000 RPMs for hours and not blow to pieces and to me that's remarkable.

   ..Indy cars have managed that durability, by going out and doing it..and race by race improving those engines.
  These rally cars should by the same token, improve almost every functioning part of the car, due to the diverse  road and atmospheric conditions.

[Lloyd Smale]

well nascar going in circles might be boring to non car guys but if you think of what there doing its far from boring. Whens the last time you drove a 100mph. Then add that there sometimes going twice that for 500 miles straight. Fastest ive drove is one of my vettes i had up to 170 and that was for a matter of less then a minute and believe me it made my ass pucker. that was on a desolate 2 lane backroad on a straight away and it took both lanes for me to do it. Now add corners and the fact that other cars are inches away from you. If you think that doesnt take every bit as much skill as driving a rally car your smoking crack. Want boring? bouncing a ball down a court and tossing it into a hoop or handing off a football for a guy to run 5 yards now thats boring to me. Fishing and hunting like most of us do?  most of it is like watching paint dry. If you think doing what they do is boring take a ride up here and ill show you 160 down a boring straight away in my challenger and ill even bring the toilet paper. Me? I love cars and trucks and snowmobiles and motorcycles. Love watching all of them race. Mostly because i can appreciate the skill involved. What ralley cars should do is race in stadiums like motocross and snowcross do so you could watch the whole race. Not just 2 minutes of a car blasting by. 

go and actually take a look at rally cars. there no closer to a car you can buy then a nascar car is. There a shell on a full blown race car with full tilt race motors. A suburu off the showroom floor wouldnt last 5 minutes being thrashed like that. Comparing one to a factory car is about a far off as me taking my wrangler down to Baja and racing the 500.

   I won't dispute that..neither one is near a production car..Those rally cars are AWD and 600 hp..some 1000 hp !

    ..But by understanding just what they need to do to best handle both left and right turns, up and down hill,  coming down on the suspension, after flying over a hundred feet through the air..and doing the same in all kinds of weather..can't help but "improve the breed"!
      Just running a car for a few hundred miles on sandy/dusty roads, must teach them something about air filtration.
   
   General Motors is getting into the game also;
       https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1052006_gm-eyeing-world-rally-championship-return

  ...And Chrysler;
   https://www.allpar.com/threads/the-600-horsepower-dodge-dart-rally-cars.228309/

   BTW:  I believe the old Baja races helped greatly, to inprove the vehicles..since in those races the cars/trucks
  were subject to the same vicissitudes that our family vehicles are subject to..but at a very much accelerated pace.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

[Lloyd Smale]

yup there amazing motors. Even a nascar motor turns 9k for 500 miles. try that in your ford. Thing is neither of those motors are even close to a manufactured motor. Neither brings much improvement to manufactured motors either. There totally different animals. There made to go fast for relatively short periods of time making BIG hp. Your car is made to last 200k putsing along a 2000 rpm. Sure aint no ecoboost ford motors or 5.3 chev motors or dodge hemi motors running in any of them. Like you said though, for them to do what they do is remarkable. Something else remarkable? A new hellcat, zl1 camaro or gt500 mustang make near nascar level hp and get 20mpg and last 200k. Granted there not ran wide open for 500 miles by us but they are tested like that by manufactures. I grew up with muscle cars that back then made about half that power got 10mpg and didnt usually make 70k without needing to be rebuilt. That and i dont think a week went buy back then that i didnt have my tool box out fixing something. 

I really enjoy those kind of races, but, I prefer to watch them on TV so I can see the entire race.
No, I wouldn't buy a ticket to see 30 seconds of the race every two or three minutes.
I really hope that sponsors keep the races alive.

re engines: Indy cars can sustain 10,000 to 12,000 RPMs for hours and not blow to pieces and to me that's remarkable.

[ironglow]

.
   Takes all kinds to make a world..!  I do hope you can lay that silliness to youthful lack or solid reasoning.

  Let's face it.. 170 mph on any public road, is foolish to say the least !  At 170 mph, a farmer half a mile down the road can start to pull out from a side road or his ranch driveway...and unless he really hurries, you could meet before he gets into his own lane...and if he pulls into your lane, you may be doing 360s as you hit him!

   ..Then there is all kinds of wild game, who don't recognize 170 mph !  Even a rabbit or prairie chicken, can be a death warrant at that speed..

      Last time I drove anything  like that was in my early 20s, and still foolish.   Doing 4 wheel drifts around 90 degree corners in my '56 Ford, and launching airborne for many yards in my '57 chevy coupe,
    was foolish, to say the least !  And for a man with a young family to do this...was a heartless act.

      Beyond those foolish, early years, and viewing the speed factor cerebrally, only emphasized the futility of such games.  Such was pointed out to me when I was 38 yrs old...and I lost my first born son to just such antics.

     Now days, I find more joy in accomplishing a particular skill in my craft, or forge and finish a particularly pleasing blade.
   I know it may bore others, but I enjoy finding some normally overlooked fact, through a combined history and Bible study.

   ..And perhaps, squeezing 3 more mpg from a given vehicle through careful driving..can be just as satisfying a  challenge for some.

    As has been said..."different strokes for different folks"...and as I matured, I found certain pursuits provide
    most satisfaction.. especially when they in no way endanger others.

[Lloyd Smale]

many years ago my friend. Still run them up to a 100 on occasion though. I love cars and anything fast. Always have and probably will till i die. Gas milage? Bah humbug. Id rather walk then drive one of those little econo boxes. Or GOD FORBID something electric. If i hit a deer and die it beats the hell out of having a heart attack at home in front of a tv.  Im 65 know and have been living on borrowed time since the early 70s in the service and gave God MANY chances to claim me in the past but it seems hes not interested yet. There lies the different strokes you mentioned. Its why we probably dont agree on racing. Your not a car guy and probably not a snowmobile motorcycle ect guy.

[ironglow]

.
  " If i hit a deer and die it beats the hell out of having a heart attack at home in front of a tv." 

   ....And if it is that farmer in his pickup truck ?   Or a child that wanders into the road?

     ...Or what does that do for your family?

[Bob Riebe]

go and actually take a look at rally cars. there no closer to a car you can buy then a nascar car is. There a shell on a full blown race car with full tilt race motors. A suburu off the showroom floor wouldnt last 5 minutes being thrashed like that. Comparing one to a factory car is about a far off as me taking my wrangler down to Baja and racing the 500.

   I won't dispute that..neither one is near a production car..Those rally cars are AWD and 600 hp..some 1000 hp !

    ..But by understanding just what they need to do to best handle both left and right turns, up and down hill,  coming down on the suspension, after flying over a hundred feet through the air..and doing the same in all kinds of weather..can't help but "improve the breed"!
      Just running a car for a few hundred miles on sandy/dusty roads, must teach them something about air filtration.
   
   General Motors is getting into the game also;
       https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1052006_gm-eyeing-world-rally-championship-return

  ...And Chrysler;
   https://www.allpar.com/threads/the-600-horsepower-dodge-dart-rally-cars.228309/

   BTW:  I believe the old Baja races helped greahttps://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/Themes/default/images/bbc/bold.giftly, to inprove the vehicles..since in those races the cars/trucks
  were subject to the same vicissitudes that our family vehicles are subject to..but at a very much accelerated pace.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

Here is where World Rally were and NOW are; they are vastly different from the Group high horsepower cars but it is still a hugely popular type of racing overseas.
The probability of spectator deaths is one reason is never caught on in the U.S. of A. (I am sure lawyers were salivating) and the outright speed and some drivers deaths put an end to the glory years 40 years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Rally_Championship#Early

The OFF-ROAD Baja races were true modified production cars as were the as were the  Dakar races in Africa which the Baja races were based on.
They were the ultimate off rode race challenge, different from rallying and far, far, far more challenging.
Both still exist but they are a world apart from what they were 30-40 years ago.

The Targa Florio was the last true road race, i.e. " the Targa Florio was a rally-type race that took place on closed-off public mountain roads"

In the last years, this Chapparal, and Ferrari , Alfa Romeo  and other cars of a similar type were racing there but Ford factory  cars that raced at LeMans were not allowed to race there.






the final iteration of the course, the 72 km (45 mi) Piccolo circuit had about 800-900 corners per lap.

[ironglow]

.
  While travelling through Belgium many years ago, an Army friend and I, stopped at Spa Belgium, and the Spa-Francorchamps race course.  It was on a misty morning , so we just took a couple snapshots and went on our way.
  Somewhere in my souvenirs, I have a shot of my old self parked in a starting slot, about to open the door of that  '58 Ford Ranchero, and start my faux run..

   Back then, it was a run-and-start-your-car type race, much like Le Mans.  A challenging course, set in the
  Ardennes, where much of the 'Battle of the Bulge' took place during WW2.

   ...Many ups and downs as well as rigorous turns and switchbacks. Unlike the 2-3 hour NASCAR races, some there go for 24 hours.  Now, that IS a test of cars and drivers...

[ironglow]

.
  The Spa classic includes several classes of cars all running at the same time..each trying to lead their "class"..

    Just a few miles away at Malmedy, is the monument for about 225 GIs, captured and murdered by SS task force Peiper, during the  Battle of the Bulge.

   Here, more Spa classic.       https://www.collierautomedia.com/missing-the-spa-classic

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuHT4EX2fUI

[ironglow]

.
   BTW;  Here is the scene at the memorial for the GIs murdered in th e"Malmedy Massacre".  We stopped by there on that same misty morning.
   Click the arrows to view the scenes.  Each dark brick  in the wall has a murdered GIs name on it...

  https://www.tracesofwar.com/sights/310/Memorial-Prisoners-of-War-Baugnez.htm

[Bob Riebe]

.
  While travelling through Belgium many years ago, an Army friend and I, stopped at Spa Belgium, and the Spa-Francorchamps race course.  It was on a misty morning , so we just took a couple snapshots and went on our way.
  Somewhere in my souvenirs, I have a shot of my old self parked in a starting slot, about to open the door of that  '58 Ford Ranchero, and start my faux run..

   Back then, it was a run-and-start-your-car type race, much like Le Mans.  A challenging course, set in the
  Ardennes, where much of the 'Battle of the Bulge' took place during WW2.

   ...Many ups and downs as well as rigorous turns and switchbacks. Unlike the 2-3 hour NASCAR races, some there go for 24 hours.  Now, that IS a test of cars and drivers...

Ah you were at the old original Spa-Franchorchamps race track, loved by race drivers who simply loved truly fast race tracks and feared greatly by the rest.
Fast lap record, qualifying, there was 163.7 mph by a Ferrari prototype race car, fastest actual race lap was 163 mph by a Matra-Simca prototype, both 1973.

Fast race average there was two years earlier by a Porsche 917:.154.765 mph (249.069 kph) for 1000 kilometers including the pits stops.
That year the pole speed also by a Porsche was a mere -- 162 mph.

[Dee]

I wouldn't walk across the street to watch a race of any kind.

[Graybeard]

I doubt I'd walk out on the porch to watch one. Well I do like monster trucks so I might go out on the porch to watch that. Man would they ever make a mess of my blueberry orchard if they were racing out front.

[ironglow]

  .
   What? You don't like blueberry jam, Bill?     Somehow I think in]f somebody got into your blueberries..they would be in a jam...

  Meanwhile, here are some shots of that memorial wall in Malmedy. First the wall, then a closeup of some of the names in the wall.  That action by officer Peiper has since been referred to as the "Malmedy massacre".  It is at a hilltop crossroads setting.