CBS this morning: should wealth have limits. Craziness.

[darkgael]

I just saw that this topic was being discussed on zCBS TV this morning. 
Sad and disappointing and crazy. One wonders what genius thought of it,

[O-mega]

I just saw that this topic was being discussed on zCBS TV this morning. 
Sad and disappointing and crazy. One wonders what genius thought of it,

The only limits wealth should have is legality.  You should be able to prove the legal source of your income, and tax filings.  But I also feel illegal income needs to be taxed, so we need a point of sale tax to gather taxes from all, equally with no waivers.

[darkgael]

I am not at all familiar with the fiscal practices of the 1% of people that this limitation is aimed at. Is a point of sale tax viable for the billionaires who are the ultra rich?

[Casull]

I just saw that this topic was being discussed on zCBS TV this morning. 
Sad and disappointing and crazy. One wonders what genius thought of it,

The only limits wealth should have is legality.  You should be able to prove the legal source of your income, and tax filings.  But I also feel illegal income needs to be taxed, so we need a point of sale tax to gather taxes from all, equally with no waivers.

You expect that those involved in illegal transactions will collect a tax?

[Dee]

I just saw that this topic was being discussed on zCBS TV this morning. 
Sad and disappointing and crazy. One wonders what genius thought of it,

The only limits wealth should have is legality.  You should be able to prove the legal source of your income, and tax filings.  But I also feel illegal income needs to be taxed, so we need a point of sale tax to gather taxes from all, equally with no waivers.

You expect that those involved in illegal transactions will collect a tax?

Me to.

[Bob Riebe]

Typical Leninist Socialist speak.

[O-mega]

I just saw that this topic was being discussed on zCBS TV this morning. 
Sad and disappointing and crazy. One wonders what genius thought of it,

The only limits wealth should have is legality.  You should be able to prove the legal source of your income, and tax filings.  But I also feel illegal income needs to be taxed, so we need a point of sale tax to gather taxes from all, equally with no waivers.

You expect that those involved in illegal transactions will collect a tax?

If the tax is at point of sale (no, not drugs or prostitution, etc.), then yes, everyone buys stuff.  The ultra rich would pay the same tax as the poor, except their toys are more expensive so more tax is collected, but at the same percentage.  Currently there is a way for drug dealers and prostitutes to pay tax, not used much of course but it can be done.  And now they expect thieves to report their booty so a tax could be collected, but since it is voluntary, it won't be reported.  If the tax is mandatory at point of sale, there will be no way to avoid it.  But, they would need to get rid of the reems of tax code and not make it a tax on top of the current one.

[ironglow]

.
   .
  My only concern with unlimited wealth is when it hurts others trying to live or make a living...or threatens our basic freedoms as explained inthe Bill of Rights..
...As outlined in The Sullivan anti-trust act... which seems to be ignored as of late. When a commodity is cornered and prices fixed artifically, to the detriment of others..e.g. "big pharma" as a current example

     Or, when our rights are threatened by the collectivization of means of communication.. e.g. the dissemination of the news and information, being placed in fewer and fewer hands, which is happening as we speak, possibly ending in "big brother" world situation..

  There are  many thousands of accruing wealth, without jeopardizing other peoples' lives or freedoms.

[phalanx]

The IRS doesent care. They want all of it.

[Casull]

I just saw that this topic was being discussed on zCBS TV this morning. 
Sad and disappointing and crazy. One wonders what genius thought of it,

The only limits wealth should have is legality.  You should be able to prove the legal source of your income, and tax filings.  But I also feel illegal income needs to be taxed, so we need a point of sale tax to gather taxes from all, equally with no waivers.

You expect that those involved in illegal transactions will collect a tax?

If the tax is at point of sale (no, not drugs or prostitution, etc.), then yes, everyone buys stuff.  The ultra rich would pay the same tax as the poor, except their toys are more expensive so more tax is collected, but at the same percentage.  Currently there is a way for drug dealers and prostitutes to pay tax, not used much of course but it can be done.  And now they expect thieves to report their booty so a tax could be collected, but since it is voluntary, it won't be reported.  If the tax is mandatory at point of sale, there will be no way to avoid it.  But, they would need to get rid of the reems of tax code and not make it a tax on top of the current one.

You'll have to explain to me what "legal activity" produces "illegal income".

[Ranger99]

Just me-  I've never understood the
jealousy many have of the wealthy
even though they would live exactly
as the wealthy do if they could.
If not for big business, there wouldn't
be any jobs here. If I were a gazillionaire
and people were lining up against my
business,  I'd do exactly what many do
and move everything to the philipines
or india or the honduras or somewhere
like that where people would work for
a few dollars a day and be glad of it.
For whatever reason, people aren't
content to make a living and have a
decent house and a vehicle and eat
regularly.

[Bob Riebe]

Just me-  I've never understood the
jealousy many have of the wealthy
even though they would live exactly
as the wealthy do if they could.
If not for big business, there wouldn't
be any jobs here. If I were a gazillionaire
and people were lining up against my
business,  I'd do exactly what many do
and move everything to the philipines
or india or the honduras or somewhere
like that where people would work for
a few dollars a day and be glad of it.
For whatever reason, people aren't
content to make a living and have a
decent house and a vehicle and eat
regularly.

Read some of the history that brought about trust busting, the stopping of which is why some now dominate society just as they did near one hundred years ago.
It is not jealousy , it is the rich creating rules, through the power of money, the general population has to live by but they do not because they buy, or extort their way out.
The fact the people in the Swamp in Washington, with rare exceptions are all millionaires who get health care and retirement that are greater than the majorities hard earned yearly income.

[Ranger99]

So. . . What can anyone that reads
this do about say. . Bill Gates?
Anything an individual can do to
take his money from him?
As long as there's been a world, the
wealthy have ruled the roost.
I don't see that changing anytime
soon. There's for sure nothing
I'll ever be able to do about it.
People keep electing thieves like
Nancy Pelosi and Charles Schumer
and those types year after year
then they boo hoo that their wine
went up a dollar a bottle because of
"Big business " or some crap .
JMHO- it's too bad that a big mac
doesn't cost $17.95 yet
That's what it'll take for many to
get a reality check

[ironglow]

Just me-  I've never understood the
jealousy many have of the wealthy
even though they would live exactly
as the wealthy do if they could.
If not for big business, there wouldn't
be any jobs here. If I were a gazillionaire
and people were lining up against my
business,  I'd do exactly what many do
and move everything to the philipines
or india or the honduras or somewhere
like that where people would work for
a few dollars a day and be glad of it.
For whatever reason, people aren't
content to make a living and have a
decent house and a vehicle and eat
regularly.

Read some of the history that brought about trust busting, the stopping of which is why some now dominate society just as thy near one hundred years ago.
It is not jealousy , it is the rich creating rules, through the power of money, the general population has to live by but they do not because they buy, or extort their way out.
The fact the people in the Swamp in Washington, with rare exceptions are all millionaires who get health care and retirement that are greater than the majorities hard earned yearly income.

  ...And Nancy Pelosi made 59% on stock trades over the last year.  I have some of the same stocks...but don't make that kind of a return..
  Of course, if you KNOW you are going to award a monster government contract...you can "insider trade" your way to the top...congress made it legal for them..and only them, to insider trade..
     Check Nancy ...   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNDHiiJaxes

[darkgael]

If the tax is at point of sale (no, not drugs or prostitution, etc.), then yes, everyone buys stuff.  The ultra rich would pay the same tax as the poor, except their toys are more expensive so more tax is collected, but at the same percentage.

It seems that you are thinking retail….buying stuff, selling stuff…..that is not how the 1% does business.

In any case, if someone has worked hard, been clever, maybe invented something that lots of people want or offers a service that lots of people want…..I dont begrudge them their income. If a person is lucky enough to be born into vast wealth because grandpa invested wisely, I have no problem with that either.
Any attack like regulating how much income a person can have smacks of Marx. More than Marx, it smacks of envy, of jealousy.

[O-mega]

I just saw that this topic was being discussed on zCBS TV this morning. 
Sad and disappointing and crazy. One wonders what genius thought of it,

The only limits wealth should have is legality.  You should be able to prove the legal source of your income, and tax filings.  But I also feel illegal income needs to be taxed, so we need a point of sale tax to gather taxes from all, equally with no waivers.

You expect that those involved in illegal transactions will collect a tax?

If the tax is at point of sale (no, not drugs or prostitution, etc.), then yes, everyone buys stuff.  The ultra rich would pay the same tax as the poor, except their toys are more expensive so more tax is collected, but at the same percentage.  Currently there is a way for drug dealers and prostitutes to pay tax, not used much of course but it can be done.  And now they expect thieves to report their booty so a tax could be collected, but since it is voluntary, it won't be reported.  If the tax is mandatory at point of sale, there will be no way to avoid it.  But, they would need to get rid of the reems of tax code and not make it a tax on top of the current one.

You'll have to explain to me what "legal activity" produces "illegal income".

No I don't, because I never said it did.  What I said is that with a point of sale tax, even those that have illegal income will pay a tax.

[ironglow]

If the tax is at point of sale (no, not drugs or prostitution, etc.), then yes, everyone buys stuff.  The ultra rich would pay the same tax as the poor, except their toys are more expensive so more tax is collected, but at the same percentage.

It seems that you are thinking retail….buying stuff, selling stuff…..that is not how the 1% does business.

In any case, if someone has worked hard, been clever, maybe invented something that lots of people want or offers a service that lots of people want…..I dont begrudge them their income. If a person is lucky enough to be born into vast wealth because grandpa invested wisely, I have no problem with that either.
Any attack like regulating how much income a person can have smacks of Marx. More than Marx, it smacks of envy, of jealousy.

  ^^^THAT^^^  incisive !

[Casull]

I just saw that this topic was being discussed on zCBS TV this morning. 
Sad and disappointing and crazy. One wonders what genius thought of it,

The only limits wealth should have is legality.  You should be able to prove the legal source of your income, and tax filings.  But I also feel illegal income needs to be taxed, so we need a point of sale tax to gather taxes from all, equally with no waivers.

You expect that those involved in illegal transactions will collect a tax?

If the tax is at point of sale (no, not drugs or prostitution, etc.), then yes, everyone buys stuff.  The ultra rich would pay the same tax as the poor, except their toys are more expensive so more tax is collected, but at the same percentage.  Currently there is a way for drug dealers and prostitutes to pay tax, not used much of course but it can be done.  And now they expect thieves to report their booty so a tax could be collected, but since it is voluntary, it won't be reported.  If the tax is mandatory at point of sale, there will be no way to avoid it.  But, they would need to get rid of the reems of tax code and not make it a tax on top of the current one.

You'll have to explain to me what "legal activity" produces "illegal income".

No I don't, because I never said it did.  What I said is that with a point of sale tax, even those that have illegal income will pay a tax.

Well, we have that.  It's called a sales tax.  Are you proposing we increase that and keep the income tax, or increase it and get rid of the income tax?  That's been discussed before, but never goes anywhere.

[scattershot]

Sounds like pure communism to me. The fact that someone would even discuss something like this on national media is scary.

[Bob Riebe]

Well, we have that.  It's called a sales tax.  Are you proposing we increase that and keep the income tax, or increase it and get rid of the income tax?  That's been discussed before, but never goes anywhere.

It sounds like the Value Added Tax -- a curse Europeans loathe.

A Value-Added Tax (VAT) is a consumption tax assessed on the value added in each production stage of a good or service. Every business along the value chain receives a tax credit for the VAT already paid. The end consumer does not, making it a tax on final consumption.

[Lloyd Smale]

yes sir.

Typical Leninist Socialist speak.

[ironglow]

.
   A tax to make somebody conform?  Hah!  the ones who may deserve it the most, won't be touched...simply because they are already operating illegally and disgracefully.

   Does anybody think for one moment, that those who are consorting with the enemyfor huge profits..are going to confess their clandestine and traitorous activities?

 Sure they will, just as soon as more anti-gun laws will force the criminals to surrender or register their guns !

     What if the biggest thieves are already running the show?

     https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/red-handed-how-american-elites-get-rich-helping-china-win_peter-schweizer/28852541/item/46779441/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9MHotajK9QIVLdSzCh2_0gBVEAQYASABEgJv-PD_BwE#idiq=46779441&edition=60314271

     

[Dee]

Lets look at who we're depending on for reasonable commonsense taxation.

Congress! Where insider trading was made legal for "Congressional members" only.
Congress! Who are provided a health care package for themselves, and their families, that are at the very top of health care. For life.
These health care plans were "given" to Congressional members by, themselves.

Now. Knowing this, how many here realistically expects a level playing field.

[O-mega]

No, not a VAT, just a Federal sales tax replacing the income tax.  The VAT is paid all along the manufacturing chain, the sales tax would just be at the point of sale, to the end user.  As I am not ultra rich, or have looked into how they roll, but I figure they buy stuff or services, food, clothes, cars, yachts, planes, fuel etc., or at least have their staff buy things for them.

[Bob Riebe]

No, not a VAT, just a Federal sales tax replacing the income tax.  The VAT is paid all along the manufacturing chain, the sales tax would just be at the point of sale, to the end user.  As I am not ultra rich, or have looked into how they roll, but I figure they buy stuff or services, food, clothes, cars, yachts, planes, fuel etc., or at least have their staff buy things for them.

In the VAT system, all, except the consumer, get their taxes refunded, no different from a sales tax.

"Every business along the value chain receives a tax credit for the VAT already paid. The end consumer does not, "

[ironglow]

.
  So, even if congress adoptyed such a thing, it wouldn't hurt them personally...

  ...e.g. a certain senator or congressman gets $2million or $2 billion payoff from the Chinese commies..then he/she puts it in a Swiss bank..or a bank in the Cayman Islands....

  How does the IRS know how much to tax them?

[O-mega]

.
  So, even if congress adoptyed such a thing, it wouldn't hurt them personally...

  ...e.g. a certain senator or congressman gets $2million or $2 billion payoff from the Chinese commies..then he/she puts it in a Swiss bank..or a bank in the Cayman Islands....

  How does the IRS know how much to tax them?

Well, they are asking thieves to report the value of their stolen merchandise, maybe it applies to bribes as well.

[Dixie-Dude]

The income tax started as a "tax the rich" tax.  It only affected people making over $25,000 a year back a little over 100 years ago.  They adjusted it down during WWII and it never went back up. 

The libs want a net worth wealth tax.  Rich people own factories, or stocks in their companies.  If all rich had to pay a "wealth tax" they would have to sell off what they own to pay the tax.  Eventually only foreigners would own all our factories, warehouses, retail shops, etc.  Why, it wouldn't stop there.  My home is worth about $450,000, why should I pay tax on my home that I bought years ago for $225,000.  If they lowered the wealth tax, I would have to sell my house to pay the tax if it became lower because they took all the money from the really rich and worked their way down. 

Liberals think wealth is a finite pie, but wealth can grow.  You get a piece of land and build something on it, it goes up in value.  The value of something is paper, not real worth. 

For instance Elon Musk had to sell some stock in his company Tesla to pay capital gains tax.  He didn't have cash.  His worth is tied up in Tesla factories, battery factories, solar panel factories, and in SpaceX rocket manufacturing.  Not cash.  Sure he is worth $180 billion, but that is not cash, it is factories.  Same with Bezos and Amazon.  Most of his wealth is tied up in Amazon factories and shipping terminals, not cash.  My wealth is tied up in my home, not cash. 

Taxing income is at least is taxing the cash you make, not on the value of your store, factory etc.  This wealth tax they are telling lies about is a back door way for the government to take your property and stuff if you don't pay the taxes.  This is pure communism.  How about the government stop spending money on things that don't produce any results.  $4 trillion on welfare and food stamps since 1965 and we still have 13% poverty like we did in 1965.  No results, just waste. 

[magooch]

If I were a dick tater, I would have a citizen's tax and it would be the same amount for everyone, except those who had very little to no income.  The actual tax would be very minimal, but somewhat variable depending on how much government service one demands.
Okay, that would leave a huge gap in the amount of revenue generated and what government wants to spend.  So be it.  A minimal sales tax could make up some, but it would need absolute limits.  I wouldn't oppose a tariff on imported goods that were direct competitors of domestic products.  Retired folks would have a frozen ceiling on their taxes as long as they remained retired.  Yes, even investment income would be ceilinged for tax purposes.  There would be no limits on folks who want to move to the United States, but the entree fee would be 10 million dollars.

Remember, I said if I were a dick tater--so no use for any other lawmakers.  Enormous savings there.

[mcbammer]

  I use to think you couldnt be taxed on the air you breath , until climate change came along.