Author Topic: Kimber Eclipse Pro Series II vs. Springfield Champion  (Read 2908 times)

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Offline Chris B.

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Kimber Eclipse Pro Series II vs. Springfield Champion
« on: March 09, 2004, 05:39:57 PM »
I'm thinking about buying one of these and it will be my 1st 1911. Can you guntelmen tell me which is the better gun and why you think that? Both feel and look nice but the Springfield is about $300 less. Thank you!
God, Guns and Guts....the 3 G's that made America! God Bless it!

Offline dmmorrd

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Kimber Eclipse Pro Series II vs. Springfiel
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2004, 05:48:43 PM »
I bought a Springfield Champion last year.  I wasn't very happy with the quality of the one I got.  The guide rod was junk, the feed ramp was rough, hollow points turned it into a jam-o-matic.  I was able to fix it but I had to do it myself.  Customer service at Springfield was a joke.  Everyone I spoke to at springfield talked to me like I was idiot and all the problems I had was the result of my stupidity.  Needless to say I didn't send the gun back to them.  After I replaced the guide rod and polished the ramp it turned into a real shooter and is now one of my carry guns.  I should say that I only had to spend about $50.00 on it to get it running right but it should have been a shooter from the factory.  If I had it to do over again I would buy a Kimber.
Rights are like muscles, use them or lose them.

Offline Nanook 450

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Kimber Eclipse Pro Series II vs. Springfiel
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2004, 04:37:38 PM »
I've never had anything but raves for Springfield's customer service.  Had a Trophy Match for three years, was trouble with the target sights - was the sight manufacturer, not Springfield - asked if I could trade the Trophy Match for a TRP and pay the $300 difference, had I know then, what I know now . . .  comes with tritium, ambi safety and fixed sights.  Springfield said no - they would trade even - yea, traded a three year old gun for a new TRP straight up.

Also have a Kimber PRO CDP - had to polish that ramp, fix the safety - replace the tritium, take a sharp edge off the bottom of the grip, and it only fed hollow points after a 1000 round break in.

Kimber has a one year warranty.

Springfield has a lifetime warranty.

Would never buy anything except a Springfield - until I can afford a $3,000 to $5,000 custom Caspian.

Offline Chris B.

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Kimber Eclipse Pro Series II vs. Springfiel
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2004, 05:58:02 PM »
A little bit from both sides of the fence! Thank you guys!
Anyone else? :D
God, Guns and Guts....the 3 G's that made America! God Bless it!

Offline BamBams

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Kimber Eclipse Pro Series II vs. Springfiel
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2004, 08:32:55 PM »
Why not.

Had a Springfield stainless 1911.  Bought it new through Davidsons.  It was so loose it couldn't hold a 4 inch group at 25 FEET.  I got rid of it after only owning it for a little over a week.

Bought a Kimber Gold Match.  FANTASTIC pistol for the money.  Accurate. Will hold a 2 inch group at 25 YARDS.  

Kimber - made in America
Springfield - made in Brazil where pistols are banned.

Kimber doesn't have a lifetime warranty, but you probably won't need one either.  *smiles*
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Offline Savage

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Kimber Eclipse Pro Series II vs. Springfiel
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2004, 10:39:38 AM »
In my opinion, there is no comparision between the Kimber and the Springfield. If you want a quality 1911, buy the Kimber. If you want a good inexpensive 1911 get a Dan Wesson.
Savage
An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last,

Offline Chris B.

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Kimber Eclipse Pro Series II vs. Springfiel
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2004, 06:13:45 PM »
Thanks again everyone! I'm leaning towards the Kimber.
God, Guns and Guts....the 3 G's that made America! God Bless it!

Offline seanwall

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Kimber Eclipse Pro Series II vs. Springfiel
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2004, 05:47:40 PM »
Both are good guns, but if you want it to be really good right out of the box with no extra work, then I would go with the Kimber. I personally own 4 of the Kimber 1911s and in my experience they are some of the best 1911 style handguns that money can buy, both for there reliability and accuracy. My personal favorite is the Team Match 2 < USA Shooting Team Gun it is truly the most accurate and reliable pistol that I have ever owned.

Offline Nanook 450

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Kimber Eclipse Pro Series II vs. Springfiel
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2004, 04:11:48 PM »
taking my Kimber back to the gunsmith for the fifth time - my Pro CDP will not eject a loaded magazine - can't send it back to Kimber - my one year is long gone, used up . . .

Offline BamBams

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Kimber Eclipse Pro Series II vs. Springfiel
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2004, 07:46:52 AM »
Nanook, I honestly can't understand why you're having so many problems with your Kimber.  It is definitely not the norm.  Kimber has been known to work on "out of warranty" guns for free.  Have you spoken with Dennis at the custom shop?  Just curious.
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Offline Nanook 450

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Kimber Eclipse Pro Series II vs. Springfiel
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2004, 02:07:02 AM »
Thanks Bam Bam . . .

No, I've not attempted to contact Kimber - my gunsmith can probably fix this for next to nothing, might be time for a complete disassembly and cleaning.

Seems most 1911s have some glitches - all the good ones have a break in period.  Still love my Kimber and love my Springfield.  Fun to take them apart, reassemble and marvel at John Browning's genius.

The point that Springfield took a 3 year old Trophy match and traded straight-up for a TRP, speaks volumes to me - lifetime warranty cuts through all the other competitors warranties.

I'm just a loyal old dog - don't know much beyond that.

Offline seanwall

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Kimber Eclipse Pro Series II vs. Springfiel
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2004, 03:59:28 PM »
I have never heard of anyone having this kind of trouble out of a Kimber, and honestly it is hard to believe considering I have owned there guns almost since they started making them and like so many others have never had any bad experiences with them or there customer serviceare you sure that Kimber says that they wont service your gun because some other gunsmith got ahold of it and messed it up first, it really does seem that if he was any good at all you would not be on your 5th trip to him, and I can assure you that if you had a problem and had sent it back to Kimber it would have been right the first time.

Offline Nanook 450

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Kimber Eclipse Pro Series II vs. Springfiel
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2004, 04:07:26 PM »
My gunsmith sells and services kimbers - he's also certified by S&W and others; also builds custom 1911s, usually on caspian frames.

The work on my kimber consists of:

1.  polishing the throat, to allow better feeding of hollow point ammo.

2.  replacing the dimmed tritium sights (free)

3.  taking the edge off the bottom of the grip where it meets my palm.

4.  fixing a broker ejector

5.  and now a loaded magazine will not easily eject.

Why don't you ask Chris Versells at H&H Indoor Range, Okla. City, OK if he knows what he is doing.  

Your inability to believe that anyone has had trouble with a Kimber is beyond me.

I think my Kimber and my Springfield will be all I need, until I can afford a custom made 1911.

If I were to purchase another pistol, it would be a Springfield.

Again, I made no attempt to contact Kimber, since the warranty is only one year.

Offline Savage

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Kimber Eclipse Pro Series II vs. Springfiel
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2004, 02:26:04 AM »
Well, guess you can get a bad Rolls Royce every now and then too. I have not had any bad experiences with Kimber, nor do I know of anyone who has. That's not to say it doesn't happen, because obviously it does.
At the very least I would contact Kimber and let them know what kind of problems you are having/had, with their product. If they are unaware of any quality problems they might have, they can't fix them. I assure you, should I have any problems with my Kimbers, they'll be the first to know!
Savage
An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last,

Offline Nanook 450

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Kimber Eclipse Pro Series II vs. Springfiel
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2004, 03:34:41 AM »
This is an "old" Pro CDP - their current product has the Schwartz ? system for the safety, that I'm not interested in - read that this safety system can affect the trigger pull.

My opinion still stands - 1911 pistols require a break-in period and a bit of polishing before they are ready to carry and defend your life.  No factory pistol is perfect - Kimber may be more so than Springfield - Springfield has a LIFETIME WARRANTY and Kimber does not, although Kimber may give you the grace beyond one year, if they deem appropriate.

Offline Speedloader

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Kimber vs. Springfield
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2004, 12:57:57 PM »
This is just my personal experience, so it should be taken for what it's worth, just one isolated story. But last year I purchased a Springfield Ultra Compact, and had nothing but trouble with it. Jams, misfeeds, hang-ups, extraction failures, etc. Now, I'm well aware that 1911's always require a good deal of "breaking in" and tweaking as a rule, so I stuck with it. Over a period of months I probably fired more than $200 worth of ammunition through it, bought a new custom magazine on the chance that that was the problem (it wasn't), etc. And I wasn't firing JHP's of any kind through it either--strictly factory load ball ammo.
     Finally, I'd had enough, cut my losses, and sold it (With full & fair warning to the new owner of all the problems I'd had with it, BTW!). For what I'd spent on both the weapon and attempts to "break it in" I could've purchased a top-of-the-line Kimber.
     A short time later, I did just that. Purchased a Kimber Ultra Carry II, and have had precisely TWO jams after 500+ rounds and counting. And I'm firing JHP's, blunt nose, and ball ammo in different mixtures just daring it to jam, at that. As I said--two jams, both very early on when it was new out of the box.
     Now, I know some are going to tell me I should've taken the Springfield to a gunsmith, polished the ramps, adjusted this and tweaked that, etc., and it would've probably worked just fine after that. And I'm sure the vast majority of Springfield owners don't have the same problem with theirs that I did with mine. But the bottom line is I needed a large-bore carry weapon to reliably CCW, not an ongoing work-in-progress for my local gunsmith. I was willing to invest a reasonable amount of time and ammo ($$$) to "break it in," but after a certain point it was time to move on.
     So my two cents would be to invest the extra bucks and get a Kimber.

Offline Nanook 450

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Kimber Eclipse Pro Series II vs. Springfiel
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2004, 03:47:58 PM »
Just as I never contact Kimber - you did not contact Springfield.  I tried a Springfield ultra compact when they were at H&H last year - one of those real tiny custom jobs - that particular rep let me shoot a box of ammo - it jammed a lot - the rep seemed not to care, said, if he runs across someone that is really interested in buying one, he would worry about it - I advised Springfield of their rep's attitude - I was interested in buying one.  Glad you like your Kimber for a tiny back-up - I'm contemplating the new S&W 45 acp revolver, scandium / titanium - one less round (holds 6) but would be most reliable.

On a side note, Chris at H&H tired to fix that little Springfield - could not.  Said my being left handed might be a problem, because it recoils away from my hand, instead of into it.  My hand might have been hitting the slide stop.

Offline Nanook 450

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Kimber Eclipse Pro Series II vs. Springfiel
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2004, 04:18:32 PM »
Quote from: Savage
Well, guess you can get a bad Rolls Royce every now and then too. I have not had any bad experiences with Kimber, nor do I know of anyone who has. That's not to say it doesn't happen, because obviously it does.
At the very least I would contact Kimber and let them know what kind of problems you are having/had, with their product. If they are unaware of any quality problems they might have, they can't fix them. I assure you, should I have any problems with my Kimbers, they'll be the first to know!
Savage


Kimber is not a Rolls Royce - here are links to the Rolls:

http://www.lesbaer.com/
http://www.edbrown.com/
http://www.tusseycustom.com/pricing.htm
http://www.wilsoncombat.com/


Lesbaer, Ed Brown, Tussey and Wilson build Rolls Royces - you and I just cut off one arm for a Springfield and or a Kimber - the high end Springfield and Kimber may be a Cadallac or Lincoln - but they are not even close to a Rolls.

Offline Savage

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Kimber Eclipse Pro Series II vs. Springfiel
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2004, 12:47:37 AM »
Ok, ok, then Volvo might have been a better comparison. A Kimber is as close to a Wilson as a Volvo is to a Rolls. Never driven a Rolls, but I have shot a Wilson and a Les Bauer. I could buy any of the 1911s. I choose to buy Kimbers. Why? Because reliability, accuracy, durability, and value, are more important to me than snob appeal! The day of having to buy a $2000+ custom 1911 to be competive are past.
Savage
An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last,

Offline Nanook 450

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Kimber Eclipse Pro Series II vs. Springfiel
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2004, 03:44:40 AM »
Quote from: Savage
Ok, ok, then Volvo might have been a better comparison. A Kimber is as close to a Wilson as a Volvo is to a Rolls. Never driven a Rolls, but I have shot a Wilson and a Les Bauer. I could buy any of the 1911s. I choose to buy Kimbers. Why? Because reliability, accuracy, durability, and value, are more important to me than snob appeal! The day of having to buy a $2000+ custom 1911 to be competive are past.
Savage


Never shot a Wilson or Les Bauer - glad to know that, and I value your experience.

The only people I know that drive Volvo's are either gay or female . . .  would much rather stick with a Lincoln or Cadillac. :D

Offline Savage

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Kimber Eclipse Pro Series II vs. Springfiel
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2004, 02:47:28 PM »
Nanook,
For what it's worth I've never driven a Volvo either.
Savage
An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last,

Offline BamBams

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Kimber Eclipse Pro Series II vs. Springfiel
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2004, 06:05:05 PM »
Ya know what?  The BEST 1911 is the one YOU like!
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Offline Savage

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Kimber Eclipse Pro Series II vs. Springfiel
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2004, 03:46:51 AM »
Me thinks BamBam just hit the proverbal "nail on the head"! In addition to Kimber, I currently have 1911s by: IAI, Charles Daily, Ballister Moliana, and Essex parts guns. I like um all, or they'd be gone by now. Some of the less expensive ones have been a pleasant surprise. A high price is no guarantee of quality.
Savage
edit: The Wilsons, Bauers, & Browns, sure are nice though!
An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last,

Offline Nanook 450

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Kimber Eclipse Pro Series II vs. Springfiel
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2004, 04:11:12 AM »
Quote from: Savage
Me thinks BamBam just hit the proverbal "nail on the head"! In addition to Kimber, I currently have 1911s by: IAI, Charles Daily, Ballister Moliana, and Essex parts guns. I like um all, or they'd be gone by now. Some of the less expensive ones have been a pleasant surprise. A high price is no guarantee of quality.
Savage
edit: The Wilsons, Bauers, & Browns, sure are nice though!


How could I test run a Wilson, Bauer or Brown - seems like a lot of folks in the market for one of those, would have had to test run one first, before paying $ 2 - $3,000 or more.

Offline BamBams

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Kimber Eclipse Pro Series II vs. Springfiel
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2004, 04:50:45 AM »
Nanook please allow me to offer some practical advice on that matter:

1)  Get a bunch of friends who have plenty of cash to spend.
2)  Get them to go shooting with you.
3)  Then start criticizing them for how they paid so much for a "name."

Works every time.  You'll get to shoot them all!

*smiles*
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Offline Nanook 450

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Kimber Eclipse Pro Series II vs. Springfiel
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2004, 06:23:50 AM »
I am leaning towards having my gunsmith make me one - on a Caspian frame, plus extras - the hand fitting and tuning seems to be the big cost - right now, I don't have that kind of money - most of my friends don't.

Should my TRP Springfield or Pro CDP Kimber start failing - I will work on that.

Offline Savage

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Kimber Eclipse Pro Series II vs. Springfiel
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2004, 08:15:22 AM »
Nanook,
Attend an IDPA match. The particiants are usually more than happy to let you try out their pistol of choice. Especially if they know you are in the market for a new one.
Savage
An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last,

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Kimber Eclipse Pro Series II vs. Springfiel
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2004, 12:58:06 PM »
ive got a champion and the only complaint i  have with it is accuracy. I also have a kimber match target and imo its a better gun
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Offline Mulehound

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Kimber Eclipse Pro Series II vs. Springfiel
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2004, 02:31:55 PM »
Make my living carrying a pistol, it's Kimber Gold combat all the way.  
   

            Mulehound

Offline Castaway

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Kimber Eclipse Pro Series II vs. Springfiel
« Reply #29 on: June 22, 2004, 06:50:54 AM »
Nanook 450, please explain how the Schwartz system affects trigger pull.  Unlike a series 80 Colt system where the trigger actuates the firing pin block, the Schwartz system relies on the grip safety to depress the pin that allows the firing pin to travel forward which takes the trigger out of the equation.  There is no linkage between the block and the trigger in the Schartz at all and I'm a litle befuddled at your statement.