Those EV”s are very strange

[phalanx]

They don't have a grill and they are very fast.  For how long i don't know.

[Lloyd Smale]

just a passing fad brought to you by socialism. A government that wants to control what you drive and force the price of fuel up and give rebates and money ot manufacutres to reserch it (in both cases our tax money) to shove global warming up our asses. Same people pushing it have stock in these companys jet around in private jets, go to work in limos and have homes that use more fuel and electricity in one week then i use in a year. Come midterms this will all end. Matter of fact it already is. Tesla is screeming right now that the govement pulled there monthly welfare check.

Lots of other negetives too. They rate battery life with noone calling them on it. Its not like the epa testing cars for fuel economy. If telsla wants to claim 300 miles they just right it in the add. The real testing they do is under idea conditions. Claim they make a car go 300 miles but dont tell you that was in 70 degree temps on a  flat road. Now crank the heat up to a 100 and turn the air on. Take it through the mountains out west. Bring it up here where its below zero and you not only have to run the heater wide open but we all know batterys dont do well when real cold.

So you live in florida or CA where its relatively flat and the temps are nice enough at least 1/2 the year and only have to drive 5 miles to work. Maybe then you can get away with it. But be aware that after goverment incentives dry up which the will as soon as conservatives get in control, and you have to pay full price which will probably be 50 percent more then a gas car. When you go to trade it good luck. Buddy is a car salesmen at the chev dealership and he was told not to take in any electrics and was given a list of hybrids he was allowed to take on trade. Im not talking taking it in the shorts im tallking they wont even take it period. They had a new chev bolt that they had discounted the price on it from the sticker near to half that amount that was brand new and 3 years old because it didnt sell. They took another used one in on trade and couldnt give it away. Both cars ended up going to auction.

Then anyone with a lick of sense knows that power plants pollute. That electricity is far from green energy. It doesnt come from the power fairy in the ground. So your still polluting. While you ballancing that new price thats much higher consider that electricity goes up right in line with gas. It just does it in bigger jumps once a year vs every day. Then add to that what its going to cost you to have the power company put in a new transformer. Service wire. Then you will pay the electricial to upgrade your service because nobody i know built there home and said im going to spend a bunch more to put in a service thats twice what i need. So you will probably need a 300 amp service then run the wires to your garage to your fast charger. Figured it out on another fourm and for most of us your looking at at least 10k and probably close to 20k. then when all of us are forced and everyone has to charge a car or two in there homes there coing to have to upgrade then entire electrical grid in this country from the power plants right to the transformer on your pole. Who do you think will pay for that? US either in our bill or in higher taxes.

What this is is socialism. The government wants to control your life. They want to force you to drive what they want, heck maybe even make it so only the rich can own a car and you have to stay home and either vote for them or starve. There is nothing in the constitution that says the government has a right to control the atmosphere. Bottom lin is every hippy that buys one is helping usher in socialism. Like i said its already starting to die. Why? Because americans are opening there eyes and are finally seeing that the government wants to control there lives and are getting sick of it. New vehicles in just a year have jumped up in price is some cases 30 percent because this goverment wants it that way. They also want gas prices so high that electrics start to make sense and that my friends is why new drilling and the pipelines are being shut down. Bunch of 70s peace and love hippys that took to many acid trips combined with hard core socialists that want to be dictators.  Now thats the short answer on what i think of electric (censored word) cars. Want the long one

[Ranger99]

^ ^ this ^ ^

They also want to force people into a
smaller area instead of having people
living spread out in rural areas where
it's harder to keep tabs on everyone.
I remember during the osama administration
( might have been osama himself) was
talking about how we pay much less
taxes and fuel costs less and all around
cost of living was less for the US citizens,
and kind of hinted but didn't exactly say
that it was unfair. The majority of europeans
walked and rode bicycles and rode
trains,  etc. etc.

Just me- I never could understand all
these people that want the United States
to emulate europe in everything we do.
Goldang it took us 2 wars and a heap
of lives years ago to get out from under
european rule. Who would want to go backwards?

[phalanx]

Not very many people can afford them anyway , much less keeping them running. Battery’s? The vehicle is totaled out.
Not any reports now on what the battery lifespan is. Just how long they can keep a charge. Based on how many miles driven.

[Ranger99]

Years ago when they were
offering electric Ranger trucks
(supposedly geared toward companies
like water meter readers and such)
and we were looking at different
parts in the catalog. The replacement
battery was pretty much right at
the cost of the truck, something like
$14,000.00 or thereabouts
Electrics are a grand notion, but
reach the diminishing return quickly

[Lloyd Smale]

brings up a good point. I worked in the electrical production and distribution for30 years. Youd think if they made sense at all the power companys would be using them to convince the country they made sense. But they too have to answer to stock holders and know theyd loose major dollars using electric vehicles. They watched the economics of the small trucks they bought very closely. Every 3 years they would buy a half a dozen each of about every small truck and test them for about a year and a half when they had over a 100k and decide which brands made the most economic sense judging reliability cost to maintain and cost of fuel.  I worked there over 30 years and I never saw anything but chevs and fords. If an electric would save them money they would be the first to jump on the bandwagon. Just had the meter reader at the house the other day and he was driving a toyota. I thought maybe finally toyota won but he said it was just one of the test trucks. He did say he liked it though. 

Years ago when they were
offering electric Ranger trucks
(supposedly geared toward companies
like water meter readers and such)
and we were looking at different
parts in the catalog. The replacement
battery was pretty much right at
the cost of the truck, something like
$14,000.00 or thereabouts
Electrics are a grand notion, but
reach the diminishing return quickly

[phalanx]

Toyota, burn me once shame on you. Burn me twice shame on me.

[phalanx]

Generac is offering free installation on their home chargers. Including the water proof ones.

[phalanx]

Hotels along I20 and I40 now have chargers. For overnight stays.

[Graybeard]

Chevrolet sent me an email the other day trying to entice me to look at their new Silverado EV.
They claimed 660hp, 750 lbs torque, and 400 miles range  which is on par with gas burners.
.

No it really isn't. I get over 500 miles per tank on my Toyota Tundra and it gets lousy gas mileage really.

But and a HUGE BIG BUT, I can refill the tank in less than 5 minutes and be on my way again. Let's see ya do that with an electric.

[Lloyd Smale]

my last silverado was a 5.3 crew cab 1/2 ton 4x4 it got 23mpg on the hwy. (better then my ram by 3 mpg) 25 gallon tank thats 575 mile range now figure it with that stupid 4 cyl tubo. Neighbor has one and he said he went to greenbay a few weeks about and got 26 between the hwy and the farting around town. So we will just say 26. Thats 650 mile range. Now thats talk the real world. Lay into that 650hp and watch that battery meter drop. Pull it out on the road when its 10 below zero running the heater wide open and id bet your lucky to see a 100 miles. Even down sought wtih the ac running id bet range is about cut in half. Thats the problem with these bs claims. THeres no epa to make them test or prove a thing. The government doesnt want you to know the truth and will never make them answer for there claims in the REAL world. ITs like any part of there green energy bs. They know it isnt feasible today and still want to push it down our throats and would tell any lie they can to keep us from producing oil. Bottom line is if they were cheaper to run or even AS CHEAP to run and produce theyd be flying off the dealer lots. Half the country are liberals a good 1/3 are hard core but electric car and truck sales projections are less then 2 percent. They arent even buying them. What they want is hippy green policys that the government subsidies with our tax dollars. It would take MANY BILLIONS of dollars just to upgrade our power producing and distribution systems in this country just to support even 25 percent electric. Allow them to get away with this BS and you will yearn for even 5 dollar a gallon gas. This is just as hypocritical as us buying russian oil while we send millions to the Ukraine to fight them. Its absolute insanity. What pisses me off is all the money (our tax money) thats already been pissed away on subsites to the car manufactures and to put in charging stations when theres little doubt when the democrats loose control of even the house its all going to stop cold. Money we could have sure spent wiser building jets and tanks and building our army or been spent securing our own border. These idiots dont want us energy independent they want us smoking dope and speaking chinese. I honestly wonder if russia would have had less problems marching in here then they have in the Ukraine. I think John Kerry and Bernie sanders, aoc, shummer and pelosi would vote to give them citizenship.

[Ranger99]

These smaller gasoline turbocharged
vehicles are ok at first,  but in this
hot climate everything under the hood
cooks like it was in an oven.
Extreme temperatures and condensation
is what kills vehicles. It might be ok
if you want to buy a new vehicle every
4 or 5 years, but it costs if you want
to keep a vehicle for decades.
Most of the front end is all plastic
that weathers easily, and all the plastic
under the hood gets brittle and the
plastic lines crack and break, etc. etc.

[Dixie-Dude]

Tesla's have been selling since 2012 and they haven't gone under and are having a hard time keeping up with demand.  You have to wait a year or more before getting one.  They also have supercharging stations all over the country.  One is 2 miles from my house at the mall.  I see at least one car there all the time.  It takes 45 minutes to charge if you are low on charge.  Idea is you stop to charge while you go to eat a meal.  A Model S car can go 320 miles on a charge.  That is until the battery dies, so you go 70mph for 4 hours and go 280 miles, stop to eat and charge.  Then drive on.  No one has really caught up to Tesla yet.  Their truck is supposed to get 500 miles on a charge.  It is a little slower going somewhere due to having to stop and charge every 4 hours, but not that bad.  No other new electric car can yet do this.  They are good for everyday commuting right now.  However, everyone is working on a fast charging battery. 

I figured a new Model S would take me 8 years to be equal to a comparable car in total costs with the gasoline savings alone.  That was at $2 a gallon.  This did not include oil change costs on gasoline, nor antifreeze, or transmission fluid changes. 

Right now only the more wealthy people can afford one.  This was also true with gasoline cars when they first came out.  Tesla's are still selling without the tax breaks.  After 100,000 cars they can not longer give tax breaks on those models.  Dems' now may have reintroduced it. 

Problem is, you can't stop drilling for oil and gas with 200 million vehicles out there that aren't going away for 20-35 years.  Forcing the price of fuel higher isn't the answer when people have to make a living.  Windmills, solar panels are all great, but they are all not going up overnight, those too will take time to install over many years.  Then there is nukes which take about 10 years to build and get on line.  You can't stop producing power using natural gas and coal until all this is on line.  This also will take years.  In the meantime we have to pay higher prices?  They didn't go lead free on gas overnight, but took about 10 years or more.  Even back 100 years ago, natural gas took about 40 years to take over coal as the principle heating fuel in homes.  Dem's are very impatient.  New technology takes time and improvements.   

[billy_56081]

Where is the electrical infrastructure?

[Lloyd Smale]

you also need to figure in after that 8 years what its going to be worth. My guess is you about couldnt give it away with a 100k on it. Then you are fortunate to have a charging station close by. Nearest one to here is 60 miles away. So a 120 mile round trip just to charge it. So your looking at probably 3-4 hours. Where they might work is in warmer climates for someone in a city that has access to charging stations but going cross country is questionable. You have to plan your whole trip around charging stations and who knows how long the lines will be when you get there. Another thing is theres a golden rule. ANYTHING mechanical can fail. So what does it cost when your computer or your electric motor fails? At 8 years most would be worried about that and about how much longer those batterys are going to last and nobody says much about the reduced capacity they will have 8 years from now. Like i said this is all stuff the goverment and manufactures dont want to talk about. I personaly dont have 50k to be part of there experiment. There are many logical ways to go about reducing emissions if you care. Look how far gas motors have come in the last 20 years. Whos to say there isnt more refinements to do to them. Yamaha and toyota have a joint project right now to produce a hydrogen powered v8.. None of the wacko liberals want to even talk about that. Buy what you want but bottom line is if the only ones buying into this are the wealthy liberals and a few hippys I think its a pretty safe bet that it isnt practical. At least not today. Maybe 5 years from now they will invent a perpetual energy generator that produces electricity clean and cheap. But today that clean energy comes from gas and coal fired power plants not the electrical fairy in the ground. They ARE NOT GREEN and they DO NOT SAVE YOU MONEY. if they did there would be line ups at the dealership consisting of middle class working americans. Like i said its less then a 2 percent market today and those numbers arent increasing.

[Dee]

Concerning these electric vehicles range.  You do not need to be warm in the winter driving these cars, or cool in the summer.
So you you don't need a heater, or an air-conditioned. You need to stay home.

Congress does need all those things because they are the important people running this country, and they need to be comfortable while they're doing it.

[Lloyd Smale]

I spent 34 years in electrical business 10 as a power plant operator and 24 as a lineman. I can tell you flat out the infrastructure at best is falling down. there are already brown outs and the funny thing is there more prevelent right in the liberal citys that these idiots live in. They would probably have to triple your tax rate and triple the price of electricity just to get started on making it feasible today. But like i said they wont tell you this. They would rather force you to buy one that tax and charge the crap out of you when its to late and you have no recourse. Then when they get done they still dont have a green way to produce enough power without building more coal and gas fired power plants and a major increase in nukes. Now you want to make a liberal jump up and down. Start talking about building nuke power plants near there home.

Where is the electrical infrastructure?

[Dixie-Dude]

Where is the electrical infrastructure?

Tesla has built thousands of charging stations all around the country.  All basically following the interstate and near restaurants.  They have also contracted with many motel/hotel chains to have chargers available for guests.  In 3-5 years there may be more charging stations than gasoline stations in the country.  Tesla has offered other electric car makers access to their chargers (for a fee), and have universal plugs for charging. 

Tesla's superchargers use 440 volts for the 45 minute charges.  220 is about 3 hours, while 110 is 8 hours.  That is on their cars.  Tesla is going to offer a solar bed cover for their pickup trucks that can charge a Tesla truck in about 2 days.  Idea is if you go camping and stay 2 days or more you can recharge your truck.  Look all this up on the Tesla website.  They once had a map of all the charging stations around the country.  Right now in Alabama there is one at Auburn, Huntsville, Birmingham, Montgomery and Baldwin County in south Alabama.  Several are in Atlanta.  Their cars have GPS and can show you where your nearest chargers are, and let you know you have so many miles before you need to charge.  I don't know what GM and Ford are doing, as well as other car makers, but all are now offering electric versions of their vehicles. 

Several people have shorted Tesla stock and lost a lot of money doing so, thinking they were going to go out of business.  They didn't.  Many of these people, especially writers, have dissed and played up a lot of negative about them.  Now the SEC is investigating the short sellers.  I don't think they should have legalized shorting any stock.  They did this under Clinton I think. 

[Bob Riebe]

Tesla is , right now, the second best luxury car in the U.S. behind only BMW and they think next year they may be number one.
Tesla has problems and I took all my Automotive News home and left them there so I cannot give you the details but the trucks is having major ones as of right now.

Kwik Trip gasoline stations, at least some have one charging station but in a moron move, it is located up by the store where people who go there for something besides gasoline park and people just use it as a parking spot.

I know if i was in a hurry I would too.
More charging stations than gasoline stations, if five years, dream on, this town where I am right now, was inundated with new Kwik Trip gasoline stations in the past four years,
I have seen a few, in the same past four years , electromobiles but they are rare.
In Large metro areas  they could make a good second car but then only the wealthy can afford that.

[oldandslow]

"Just had the meter reader at the house the other day and he was driving a toyota. I thought maybe finally toyota won but he said it was just one of the test trucks. He did say he liked it though."

Still that low tech up there in the frozen north? We haven't had meter readers for years down here in the backward southwest. I was suspicious of the new meters that sent your killie-watt usage reading directly to the co-op at first but my bill stayed where it was. I am guessing that the co-op sees a huge saving due to the fact that things are so scattered out that all the driving miles eliminated made a big difference.

My oldest grand son is an oilfield tech and drives a huge number of miles in his job. If he had to use an EV he wouldn't make it back home some days. His last work truck was a Toyota that replaced the Fords the company was using. The Fords were in the shop constantly and it seemed he drove a back up truck about as much as he did his assigned truck because of all the break downs. He likes the Toyota and it lasted him four years with very little down time. He just picked up it's replacement, another Toyota, after three months of waiting for one part to have it set up as ordered.

Edited to add: I just did a google search to find the number of EV charging stations in my county, a county that is over three times larger in area than one of the eastern states (I forget which), and there is exactly one shown.

[Dixie-Dude]

Toyota Prius' have gone over 10 years and still have like 96% battery efficiency.  So they can go a long time.  Tesla's engines are brushless and should go a long time.  Batteries should go 10 years or longer based on the Toyota Prius.  Tesla is also looking to make batteries using iron oxide or something like that instead of cobalt or nickel with lithium to make them cheaper.  Cobalt is expensive.  Iron is cheap and even in red dirt.  One think about electrics is with the batteries on the bottom as well as the engines near the axles, they have a low center of gravity and are hard to turn over.  They are also heavier than gasoline cars. 

[billy_56081]

Where is the electrical infrastructure?

Tesla has built thousands of charging stations all around the country.  All basically following the interstate and near restaurants.  They have also contracted with many motel/hotel chains to have chargers available for guests.  In 3-5 years there may be more charging stations than gasoline stations in the country.  Tesla has offered other electric car makers access to their chargers (for a fee), and have universal plugs for charging. 

Tesla's superchargers use 440 volts for the 45 minute charges.  220 is about 3 hours, while 110 is 8 hours.  That is on their cars.  Tesla is going to offer a solar bed cover for their pickup trucks that can charge a Tesla truck in about 2 days.  Idea is if you go camping and stay 2 days or more you can recharge your truck.  Look all this up on the Tesla website.  They once had a map of all the charging stations around the country.  Right now in Alabama there is one at Auburn, Huntsville, Birmingham, Montgomery and Baldwin County in south Alabama.  Several are in Atlanta.  Their cars have GPS and can show you where your nearest chargers are, and let you know you have so many miles before you need to charge.  I don't know what GM and Ford are doing, as well as other car makers, but all are now offering electric versions of their vehicles. 

Several people have shorted Tesla stock and lost a lot of money doing so, thinking they were going to go out of business.  They didn't.  Many of these people, especially writers, have dissed and played up a lot of negative about them.  Now the SEC is investigating the short sellers.  I don't think they should have legalized shorting any stock.  They did this under Clinton I think.

I'm not talking about the chargers,  I'm talking about the electrical grid. Many places start browning out on hot sumer days already.

[Lloyd Smale]

about 3/4s of our system now is auto metered. Mine will get done this summer but they still have to go every 3 months and verify the readings are accurate and take a hard reading off of it. At least thats what our company does. They said they will do that for the first two years..Mostly because people dont trust them and they get calls all the time that there bills are higher because of that new meters which is really never the case. What they have done is cut back the meter readers to half what they were before. When its all said and done whee we had 3 meter readers and a meter technician we in the end will only have a meter technition out of our shop. Or i should say there shop because i havent worked there in years. 

"Just had the meter reader at the house the other day and he was driving a toyota. I thought maybe finally toyota won but he said it was just one of the test trucks. He did say he liked it though."

Still that low tech up there in the frozen north? We haven't had meter readers for years down here in the backward southwest. I was suspicious of the new meters that sent your killie-watt usage reading directly to the co-op at first but my bill stayed where it was. I am guessing that the co-op sees a huge saving due to the fact that things are so scattered out that all the driving miles eliminated made a big difference.

My oldest grand son is an oilfield tech and drives a huge number of miles in his job. If he had to use an EV he wouldn't make it back home some days. His last work truck was a Toyota that replaced the Fords the company was using. The Fords were in the shop constantly and it seemed he drove a back up truck about as much as he did his assigned truck because of all the break downs. He likes the Toyota and it lasted him four years with very little down time. He just picked up it's replacement, another Toyota, after three months of waiting for one part to have it set up as ordered.

Edited to add: I just did a google search to find the number of EV charging stations in my county, a county that is over three times larger in area than one of the eastern states (I forget which), and there is exactly one shown.

[Lloyd Smale]

comical thing is the places most often having power shortages are just the places these idiot liberals pushing for these cars live.

Where is the electrical infrastructure?

Tesla has built thousands of charging stations all around the country.  All basically following the interstate and near restaurants.  They have also contracted with many motel/hotel chains to have chargers available for guests.  In 3-5 years there may be more charging stations than gasoline stations in the country.  Tesla has offered other electric car makers access to their chargers (for a fee), and have universal plugs for charging. 

Tesla's superchargers use 440 volts for the 45 minute charges.  220 is about 3 hours, while 110 is 8 hours.  That is on their cars.  Tesla is going to offer a solar bed cover for their pickup trucks that can charge a Tesla truck in about 2 days.  Idea is if you go camping and stay 2 days or more you can recharge your truck.  Look all this up on the Tesla website.  They once had a map of all the charging stations around the country.  Right now in Alabama there is one at Auburn, Huntsville, Birmingham, Montgomery and Baldwin County in south Alabama.  Several are in Atlanta.  Their cars have GPS and can show you where your nearest chargers are, and let you know you have so many miles before you need to charge.  I don't know what GM and Ford are doing, as well as other car makers, but all are now offering electric versions of their vehicles. 

Several people have shorted Tesla stock and lost a lot of money doing so, thinking they were going to go out of business.  They didn't.  Many of these people, especially writers, have dissed and played up a lot of negative about them.  Now the SEC is investigating the short sellers.  I don't think they should have legalized shorting any stock.  They did this under Clinton I think.

I'm not talking about the chargers,  I'm talking about the electrical grid. Many places start browning out on hot sumer days already.

[mcbammer]

Tesla has built thousands of charging stations all around the country.  All basically following the interstate and near restaurants.  They have also contracted with many motel/hotel chains to have chargers available for guests.  In 3-5 years there may be more charging stations than gasoline stations in the country.  Tesla has offered other electric car makers access to their chargers (for a fee), and have universal plugs for charging. 

Tesla's superchargers use 440 volts for the 45 minute charges.  220 is about 3 hours, while 110 is 8 hours.  That is on their cars.  Tesla is going to offer a solar bed cover for their pickup trucks that can charge a Tesla truck in about 2 days.  Idea is if you go camping and stay 2 days or more you can recharge your truck.  Look all this up on the Tesla website.  They once had a map of all the charging stations around the country.  Right now in Alabama there is one at Auburn, Huntsville, Birmingham, Montgomery and Baldwin County in south Alabama.  Several are in Atlanta.  Their cars have GPS and can show you where your nearest chargers are, and let you know you have so many miles before you need to charge.  I don't know what GM and Ford are doing, as well as other car makers, but all are now offering electric versions of their vehicles. 

Several people have shorted Tesla stock and lost a lot of money doing so, thinking they were going to go out of business.  They didn't.  Many of these people, especially writers, have dissed and played up a lot of negative about them.  Now the SEC is investigating the short sellers.  I don't think they should have legalized shorting any stock.  They did this under Clinton I think.
[/quote] More concerning to me is the amperage a charging station is pulling .  Will cars have to wait in line for a charge or can 10 cars be charged at the same time  on a 45 min. charge .?   

[phalanx]

It looks like an open door for hydrogen fuel cells. Once they get the bugs worked out of them. Right now they are very dangerous and expensive.

[phalanx]

It isn’t 440 anymore its now at 480. 110 is 120, 220 is 240. That all changed about 25 years ago. Get a VOM and check your wall socket. Even now 120 sometimes creeps up to 125. Our construction crew caught it that high. Higher the voltage the lower the amps. 

[phalanx]

Some Those EV vehicles cost as much as a house, or more.

[mcbammer]

Its possible the EV industry goes to quick battery pack exchanges.
.

    Sounds good if your changing out batteries in your battery drill , but the size & weight of those car batteries  could  be time consuming .

[Lloyd Smale]

when i was a lineman we were told exceptable voltage in a home was 115-130. Ive seen them on both sides of it. Two identical transformers on the pole on your street can vary that much and add in differnt wire sizes and loads and there not all going to be the same. Mine runs 117 in the barn and 119 in the house. The two volts come from the fact the barn is 30 yards from the house.We found more on the low side of that then the high side. Your voltage can even vary at different times of the day. At night when theres less load on the electrical system in your town or neighborhood the voltage tends to run higher. The farther you are from the substation the lower your voltage will be and its why we used voltage regulators on the longer circuits

It isn’t 440 anymore its now at 480. 110 is 120, 220 is 240. That all changed about 25 years ago. Get a VOM and check your wall socket. Even now 120 sometimes creeps up to 125. Our construction crew caught it that high. Higher the voltage the lower the amps.