Contrary to what some thought...

[ironglow]

IG answer me this, if Ukraine was kicking butt like the fake news sources are say, why isn't that convoy burning. With all the AT weapons that have been supplied to them. There should be guerrilla hit and run attacks and there isn't.  All we see is a bombed building here, burned out vehicle there. This sure is a low intensity conflict. I happen to remember Desert Storm very well, anti aircraft fire everywhere,  and bombs first then artillery explosions everywhere. 

I  know the "stories " of children being killed are heart wrenching,  but they are probably fake.

I  for one could care less if Ukrainians are killing Russians, or Russians killing Ukrainians.  Not my business.

And to make this worse, those spec op folks will be executed or put in a gulag if captured.  They are not protected by the Geneva convention.

I think its pretty common knowledge of the world view of "mercenaries". At least to most folks.

Problem is, it will be used as propaganda to try to drag us into the war. These guys should be protecting our border not the Ukraines.

  I don't see that as happening..since Putin knows he has a declawed kitten in the White House.  Besides, the American people including myself, are not in any way in favor of sending our troops over there.
  Some volunteers go, abd kudos to them, but the Ukrainis first a European problem..let them supply the troops if necessary.  however, it should not be necessary, and biden only irritates the situation.

  You tryto explain away the Russian slowness at getting into Kyiv...  How long did it take US forces to leave Kuwait and fight right into the heart of Baghdad?  Wasn't it measured in hours, rather than weeks or perhaps months?
  ..And didn't the Israelis in 1967..kick the butts of several Arab nations in just 6 days?  I believe that is why it is still called "The six day war" !

   

[Dixie-Dude]

I have been watching the BBC.  They actually have news with reporters on the ground in Ukraine.  Ukraine may have been corrupt, but Russia is worse, as well as our own government.  The Ukrainian people are the ones suffering.  They do not want to be under the Russian thumb.  They want their freedom, otherwise they wouldn't have held out for over 2 weeks, blown up Russian tanks and shot down Russian planes.  Because of their resistance, the Russians are now trying to surround the big cities and use artillery and blowing up civilian areas too.  This is what Russia did in Chechnya.  BBC is giving better coverage than any American outlet right now with boots on the ground. 

Some people, ex military, etc, have gone to the southern border to try to guard it.  Not all can, some people have to work.  Same with Ukraine.  My wifes mother's family was from Ukraine.  They all hated the Russians, Communists, and the Soviet Union.  They still do.  One reason they came to America.  Ukrainians have been dominated by the Russians for over 200 years.  First the Tzars, then the communists.  The like and want to keep their first freedom in over 200 years.  Don't blame the Ukranian people.  The current president of Ukraine was a commedian actor who ran as a joke, but won because the Ukranian people wanted the get rid of corruption.  The guy was actually trying to weed it out.  Now he is staying on the front lines with his people.  You have to admire that.  Russia didn't like this guy because he was wanting to join the EU and NATO and wanted more western freedoms and prosperity.  You can't blame him or the people of Ukraine. 

Knowing Russian history, Russia has always felt landlocked and wanted outlets to the sea and the rest of the world.  The still feel that way.  If it wasn't Putin, it would probably have been someone else.  Ukraine' capital is 500 years older than Moscow. 

I just can't believe the entire western world is just sitting still and watching Russia attack and try to conquer a soverign nation.  Even if we don't send troops, the west should be giving Ukraine all the weapons they need to fight off the Russians.  Poland is helping more than anyone right now.  Why?  Because they said they were conquered by the Germans and Russians while the rest of the world did nothing, until WWII and the cold war was over, and they finally got their freedom. 

Yes, we have a problem with our southern border.  Even volunteers can't patrol it without being hassled by our own border patrol or government agents.  We have to change Washington. 

[ironglow]

  "And to make this worse, those spec op folks will be executed or put in a gulag if captured.  They are not protected by the Geneva conventionn]"

     While I am not qualified to speak for the Geneva convention, nor the Hague treaty either, since I am not familiar with their fine points..these troops know what their challenge is, and have faced the same thing before.

  Remember the Clinton sponsored fight at Benghazi?  Those four Spec Ops guys went down to the consulate and fought those terrorists, knowing full well death awaited them if they failed..

[ironglow]

I have been watching the BBC.  They actually have news with reporters on the ground in Ukraine.  Ukraine may have been corrupt, but Russia is worse, as well as our own government.  The Ukrainian people are the ones suffering.  They do not want to be under the Russian thumb.  They want their freedom, otherwise they wouldn't have held out for over 2 weeks, blown up Russian tanks and shot down Russian planes.  Because of their resistance, the Russians are now trying to surround the big cities and use artillery and blowing up civilian areas too.  This is what Russia did in Chechnya.  BBC is giving better coverage than any American outlet right now with boots on the ground. 

Some people, ex military, etc, have gone to the southern border to try to guard it.  Not all can, some people have to work.  Same with Ukraine.  My wifes mother's family was from Ukraine.  They all hated the Russians, Communists, and the Soviet Union.  They still do.  One reason they came to America.  Ukrainians have been dominated by the Russians for over 200 years.  First the Tzars, then the communists.  The like and want to keep their first freedom in over 200 years.  Don't blame the Ukranian people.  The current president of Ukraine was a commedian actor who ran as a joke, but won because the Ukranian people wanted the get rid of corruption.  The guy was actually trying to weed it out.  Now he is staying on the front lines with his people.  You have to admire that.  Russia didn't like this guy because he was wanting to join the EU and NATO and wanted more western freedoms and prosperity.  You can't blame him or the people of Ukraine. 

Knowing Russian history, Russia has always felt landlocked and wanted outlets to the sea and the rest of the world.  The still feel that way.  If it wasn't Putin, it would probably have been someone else.  Ukraine' capital is 500 years older than Moscow. 

I just can't believe the entire western world is just sitting still and watching Russia attack and try to conquer a soverign nation.  Even if we don't send troops, the west should be giving Ukraine all the weapons they need to fight off the Russians.  Poland is helping more than anyone right now.  Why?  Because they said they were conquered by the Germans and Russians while the rest of the world did nothing, until WWII and the cold war was over, and they finally got their freedom. 

Yes, we have a problem with our southern border.  Even volunteers can't patrol it without being hassled by our own border patrol or government agents.  We have to change Washington.

   Thank you DD..
  First hand witness to the Russian treatment of the Ukraine, such as your Mother-in-law gave you, is extremely telling.  My late brother's wife's family were from Poland and the Ukraine..and they used to send money each month, to keep their families over there from starving.
  Poland and the Ukraine were the "bread basket" for the USSR.  The Russians would come take their grain..and leave them some very inferior Russian grain..

  I have no problem with the Russian people, but like us.. they are suffering under rotten set of leaders.  ..And theirs is even harder to get rid of !

[Mule 11]

IG, you keep posting these articles and pictures as if they are fact. None of us knows whether they are true or not. I still says this line the MSM is feeding us is pure BS.

IDK. For pure BS. Hard to beat the Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov who claimed Russia “didn’t attack Ukraine”

https://nypost.com/2022/03/10/russia-fm-sergey-lavrov-claims-russia-didnt-attack-ukraine/

How about bidet claiming recession I.e. higher prices for everything is not his fault. It’s Putin’s fault. No smiley face as this crap is not funny. And no U.S. funded bio labs either. Just like wuhan.

  I don't know who you are addressing, but just in case it is me..  Biden claims all kinds of things..and he is almost always lying..prices have been rising since he took his stolen office.
  The only ones I see claiming the bio labs are the Russians..and they are not without motive..
  Keep in mind, the former president of the Ukraine, the one Hunter Biden dealt with, was a Putin plant. ...But then, Hunter got millions from the wife of the mayor of Moscow also.   

   Then the  people of the Ukraine got wise to Putin's plant and tossed him out, during the last election!

  GO BRANDON!  ..and remember the Iron curtain !

The bio labs have been found to be funded by the U.S.A. Proof has been posted in other threads here.

[Dixie-Dude]

The CIA has bio labs in countries circling both Russia and China.  Them we have funded some in China also.  Ukraine just happened to be neutral and not in NATO or no strategic partnership with the US.  We have bio labs in SE Asian countries as well.  Why?  Who knows.  I do know that changing the genetic makeup of viruses in the US is illegal, and has been since the late 80's or early 90's.  Thus the CIA, the CDC, and others have been using money to fund genetic manipulation of viruses in foreign countries.  Many of these countries want the money and jobs.  Anyway, someone on the news media, Fox I think, found over $5 million dollars that Fauci sent to study corona viruses in Wuhan, China, where the Covid virus originated. 

Why hasn't Russia invaded China over this.  They instead pick on a smaller country, who is actually fighting back. 

Oh, there are 900, only 900 Neo-Nazi's in Ukraine, a country of 40 million.  Ukraine let them serve in their military because they were fierce fighters who hate communists.  This was one of the stipulations to joining NATO.  They had to get rid of them.  70,000 Ukrainian Cossaks of WWII joined the NAZI's to fight the Soviet Union, and after the war were all sent to gulags and/or were shot.  They seeked assylum in the Britian, because they surrendered to the British.  England refused and sent the to their deaths in Russia.  Soviet Russia was as ruthless as the NAZI's.  Ukraine is just using anyone who will fight to fight the Russians.  They are desperate to keep the Russians out.  I feel as if the west is doing nothing, except Poland. 

[Dee]

The United States government has been invading and killing people in smaller, less powerful countries, since the ending of WWII. Now someone else is doing it, and we're mortified at the "atrocity".

[ironglow]

  I sit here amazed..    Amazed that some folks who are continually concerned with our second amendment rights and all other rights supposedly guaranteed by our constitution, cannot find any compassion for a people who are suffering under the old Ivan the Terrible and Stalinist boot !

   Any knowledge of history provides ample witness that Stalin killed even more of his own people than did Hitler.  Most estimates run to 50 million or more..only chairman Mao can lay claim to a greater genocide of his own people...even though Pol Pot tried..

  Rebekah Koffler was born and raise in the old USSR, emigrated (legally) to America, and is now considered one of the top experts on the plans and designs of the Russia/Putin plans, so I humbly suggest that she may know more about the situation than either you or I !
   
   Rebekah wrote a book explaining Putin's mindset, and his plans to reconstitute the old Soviet Union, and just how far he is willing to go to do it !

    https://www.amazon.com/Putins-Playbook-Russias-Secret-America/dp/1684510031

  Click the link, then read the reviews, since they provide a good summary of the book..
 

[O-mega]

  I sit here amazed..    Amazed that some folks who are continually concerned with our second amendment rights and all other rights supposedly guaranteed by our constitution, cannot find any compassion for a people who are suffering under the old Ivan the Terrible and Stalinist boot !

   Any knowledge of history provides ample witness that Stalin killed even more of his own people than did Hitler.  Most estimates run to 50 million or more..only chairman Mao can lay claim to a greater genocide of his own people...even though Pol Pot tried..

It's not that we don't have compassion for the innocents caught up in the conflict, it's that we, as a country, don't have clean hands in this.  And anything we do to escalate will not end well for us, here in the US.  The truth is that people have been killing each other since Adam, if you are into the bible.  And no matter what we feel, this will continue, even here in our big cities we lose people every day.

[phalanx]

The Ukraine wasn't no Angel itself.

[Dee]

  I sit here amazed..    Amazed that some folks who are continually concerned with our second amendment rights and all other rights supposedly guaranteed by our constitution, cannot find any compassion for a people who are suffering under the old Ivan the Terrible and Stalinist boot !

   Any knowledge of history provides ample witness that Stalin killed even more of his own people than did Hitler.  Most estimates run to 50 million or more..only chairman Mao can lay claim to a greater genocide of his own people...even though Pol Pot tried..

It's not that we don't have compassion for the innocents caught up in the conflict, it's that we, as a country, don't have clean hands in this.  And anything we do to escalate will not end well for us, here in the US.  The truth is that people have been killing each other since Adam, if you are into the bible.  And no matter what we feel, this will continue, even here in our big cities we lose people every day.

A truer statement never said O mega. Some are all amped up about Ukraine,  while ignoring what's going on in their own country. Crazy ain't it?

[ironglow]

From O-mega;

  "It's not that we don't have compassion for the innocents caught up in the conflict, it's that we, as a country, don't have clean hands in this.  And anything we do to escalate will not end well for us, here in the US.  The truth is that people have been killing each other since Adam, if you are into the bible.  And no matter what we feel, this will continue, even here in our big cities we lose people every day."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Exactly..and my last post was to illustrate that we CAN have compassion for more than one situation.
  the fact that we may be concerned for another nation's freedom, in no way means we care any less for our own..certainly not to belabor our own country with all manner of accusations. ..It doesn't help.
  I had a friend in high school, who could never have more than ONE FRIEND.  Some quirk in him seemed to demand that his friends should not have other friends.  No need to say...I drifted away from that guy..  Same goes with concern for others...most people are more empathetic than that .

[billy_56081]

  I sit here amazed..    Amazed that some folks who are continually concerned with our second amendment rights and all other rights supposedly guaranteed by our constitution, cannot find any compassion for a people who are suffering under the old Ivan the Terrible and Stalinist boot !

   Any knowledge of history provides ample witness that Stalin killed even more of his own people than did Hitler.  Most estimates run to 50 million or more..only chairman Mao can lay claim to a greater genocide of his own people...even though Pol Pot tried..

  Rebekah Koffler was born and raise in the old USSR, emigrated (legally) to America, and is now considered one of the top experts on the plans and designs of the Russia/Putin plans, so I humbly suggest that she may know more about the situation than either you or I !
   
   Rebekah wrote a book explaining Putin's mindset, and his plans to reconstitute the old Soviet Union, and just how far he is willing to go to do it !

    https://www.amazon.com/Putins-Playbook-Russias-Secret-America/dp/1684510031

  Click the link, then read the reviews, since they provide a good summary of the book..

Yep don't care. Maybe they can completely kill each other off. Not my problem.

[Mule 11]

“Certainly not to belabor our own country with all manner of accusations...it doesn’t help”

When some refuse to accept fault where it is due. Why worry about pesky things such as the truth and accountability?

[ironglow]

  " When some refuse to accept fault where it is due. Why worry about pesky things such as the truth and accountability?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 Easily explained.."fault"...as you see it..  Truth and accountability...as you see it !  Not everyone agrees.

[ironglow]

Russia claims their attack just several miles from Polish border killed 180 foreign troops brought into Ukraine.

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-701157
.

  Perhaps it was some of those Syrian terrorists Russia brought in..

  https://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-recruiting-syrians-for-urban-combat-in-ukraine-u-s-officials-say-11646606234

 ...But then, it could be some of that military assistance from China, that Putin has been begging for
   
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57UidviVDts

[billy_56081]

IG, look up Patrick Lancaster on YouTube.  You seem to be war hawking on this, why haven't you gotten on a plane to Ukraine?

[ironglow]

IG, look up Patrick Lancaster on YouTube.  You seem to be war hawking on this, why haven't you gotten on a plane to Ukraine?

  Mistake #1..  I am not "war hawking" over the Ukraine, that is totally an assumption on your part.  I wish Putin would pick up his toys and go home this afternoon.
   I guess I am just the kind of fellow who doesn't respect the old time "class bully'..a bully, simply because he is bigger and stronger than the little guy, and he has some others cheering him on.

  This conflict could ene very shortly without and more bloodshed, if one of two options were taken:

   1)  If Biden would reinstate our petroleum leadership

  2) If Putin would reverse his aggression and go home..

      Those are the two "war hawks" !

[ironglow]

  Timeline.....

  1999 Putin invades Kosovo

  2014 Putin invades Crimea..subjugates them

  2015  Putin invades Syria, sets up terrorist network

  2022 Putin invades Ukraine

  Who is next..Romania?..Czechoslovakia?  Slovenia?

  Moldova is already afraid they are next..  ..And then there are the Baltic countries..after all, they are small, and have small armies ..But still they are very concerned.. 

      https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/01/11/baltics-russia-aggression-collective-security-ukraine/

[Dee]

  Timeline.....

  1999 Putin invades Kosovo

  2014 Putin invades Crimea..subjugates them

  2015  Putin invades Syria, sets up terrorist network

  2022 Putin invades Ukraine

  Who is next..Romania?..Czechoslovakia?  Slovenia?

  Moldova is already afraid they are next..  ..And then there are the Baltic countries..after all, they are small, and have small armies ..But still they are very concerned.. 

      https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/01/11/baltics-russia-aggression-collective-security-ukraine/

Hmmmm,

1948 United States jumps on N Korea

1955 United States invades Vietnam  (20 year war) lost the war, and 53,000 American soldiers

1989 United States invades Panama (1 year war) 23 troops killed

2001 United States invades Afghanistan (20 year war) lost the war, and 2,400 troops lost

2003 United States invades Iraq (19 year war) lost the war and 4,439 troops killed

Looks like the United States is more active concerning invading smaller, lesser countries.


Like I said, no country clean, and other countries view the United States as an aggressor with due cause.

[Mule 11]

From O-mega;

  "It's not that we don't have compassion for the innocents caught up in the conflict, it's that we, as a country, don't have clean hands in this.  And anything we do to escalate will not end well for us, here in the US.  The truth is that people have been killing each other since Adam, if you are into the bible.  And no matter what we feel, this will continue, even here in our big cities we lose people every day."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Exactly..and my last post was to illustrate that we CAN have compassion for more than one situation.
  the fact that we may be concerned for another nation's freedom, in no way means we care any less for our own..certainly not to belabor our own country with all manner of accusations. ..It doesn't help.
  I had a friend in high school, who could never have more than ONE FRIEND.  Some quirk in him seemed to demand that his friends should not have other friends.  No need to say...I drifted away from that guy..  Same goes with concern for others...most people are more empathetic than that .

High school? that’s a worthwhile comparison? “Certainly not to belabor our own country with all manners of accusations” errr guilt/fault. “No Need to say”. Yet you did. “Concern for another nations freedom” or freedom to hide illicit affairs of corrupt governments. “Empathy” my definition. Doormat...

[ironglow]

     Wrongs perpetrated by one party, doesn't justify unrelated wrongs perpetrated by another party...